in all fairness to you and trying to see the side you are seeing i clicked on your link. i was unable to watch the video basically because each of the scenes had a still picture below i could see without waiting so long to watch the video. ( i have dial - up ). i would like to try to explain some of the things in the pictures as i see them. i am not trying to change your views on anything but i thought a few things could be explained. pictures: scene 1 - depicts beagles lying on the floor recovering from anesthesia. AS I SEE IT = it often can take an animal anywhere from 1 - 10 minutes, sometimes more, to fully awaken from anesthesia and have the ability to walk back to their cage. if an operating table needs to be used for another surgery the animal needs to be taken off and recovered elsewhere. since i have seen animals go from dead sleep to popping up wide awake the safest place for them to recover is on the floor. i have seen a few animals pop awake so quickly they have fallen off the surgery table when someone was not right there watching. if iams is doing multiple surgeries at a time and does not have 1 person for each animal to be constantly watching, this is the safest way for the animals to recover. scene 2 = beagle strapped, bloody, to an x-ray table. AS I SEE IT = in many states it is illegal for x rays to be taken while the x ray technician is present in the room. it is that way in human medicine but not in every state for animal medicine. in order for an animal to be x rayed, without someone physically holding them in place , is to sedate them and strap them to the table in the position needed for what ever view is needed to be taken. the fact that the beagle is bloody means nothing more to me than it probably just came right off the surgery table, and either hasn't been cleaned up yet or is gooing right back to the surgery table. scene 4 = hitting the animal in the chest if it stops breathing. AS I SEE IT = slapping the side of the chest when an animal is not breathing is often an effective way to get the animal to start breathing again. we are not talking beating the animal , just hitting the chest. there are other ways also but generally that is enough.if your dog stopped breathing would you care how he started breathing again as long as he is breathing ? again we are not talking beating the animals chest. as for the other pictures they were pic's of nothing more then an animals face. whatever expression is on their faces is left up to interpretation and interpretation only. i didn't see what PETA says i am supposed to be seeing. as far as the slats in the cages - very effective for allowing an animals waste to fall thru so it doesn't have to sit in it. yes animals legs get caught in things like that all the time. they also get their tongues stuck in slats. their jaws stuck in cage bars if they are trying to bite the cage doors. these by no means are everyday occurences but they do happen and it is outside the norm to think it won't . again all this is left up to interpretation, but being in the animal field for as long as i have i could offer you a better explanation as to what you are seeing.
I think you should watch the video regardless of how long it takes to load, (I used to have dial-up, I now have dsl.) There are pictures of dogs circling and spinning in their cages. The slats in the cages are fine, but if you watch the tape, no where in the cages is there a way for the dogs to get off of them. How would you like to have to stay on those all the time? As far as the beagles laying on the floor, I understand them lying there to recover but why and what tests are they doing on that many dogs? And if you look closer, you can see where they took chunks out of their legs. Probably for metabolism tests. Pointless tests! That video was actually not the worst that I have seen. For whoever it was that mentioned the puppymill reference, I agree with you, those pups shouldn't pay for what the millers are doing and I only used that as a example because this is the same way. When they buy from them they are not thinking about all of the animals that are left behind to suffer.
one question = how do you know they are on them all the time ? for all you or anyone else knows they are just on them while they are waiting for surgery. or they are recovery cages for post surgery cases. you can't tell either way from a picture. if you had looked on minniyars links for the aspca, you would see in their reports that the dogs spend their time in large runs not cages. and there are pictures of them in their runs also. and as far as circling and pacing. that is not abnormal for any dog that is hospitalized or in a boarding situation. not every dog, again, but for some. now am i supposed to think that boarding kennels are cruel because some animals pace and whine and bark because they don't like being there ? i am not trying to stick up for IAMS. i am just asking that you look at them objectively and not programmed to see what PETA wants you to see. i looked at the site objectively and gave you plausible reasons that could explain what you are seeing.
Katz There is no need to wait for Peta's reply/stance on BSL & Bully breeds here it is in Black & White. I have already written PETA several weeks ago this is their reply. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Mrs.H Thank you for your inquiry regarding the legislation in Ontario regarding pit bulls. We appreciate your support and are grateful for the opportunity to address your concerns. While PETA does not believe that every pit bull should be euthanized, we do advocate a ban on the breeding of pit bulls; indeed, we should surely ban all breeding of dogs, given the tragic overpopulation crisis that results in millions of unwanted animals’ being killed every year. However, we maintain that any ban should include a clause protecting all pit bulls already living in caring homes. Before founding PETA, Ingrid Newkirk was the chief of Animal Disease Control and the director of the animal shelter in the District of Columbia for many years. During her time there, she initiated the first-ever spay/neuter, adoption, and humane-investigation programs in our nation’s capital. She waded into dangerous situations on a daily basis in an effort to help abused and neglected dogs, risking her safety countless times in the back alleys and slums of Washington. Over and over again, she rescued pit bulls from people who beat and starved them, chained them to metal drums as “guard” dogs, or trained them to attack people and other animals. This breed stands out as the most abused in dogdom. It is the relentless abuse of these animals that motivates our desire to stop people from bringing more pits into the world to be hurt and exploited. Are some pit bulls loving companions? Absolutely. But nice families rarely come to a shelter to adopt pit bulls. Almost without exception, those who want pit bulls are attracted to the “macho” image of the breed as a living weapon and seek to play up this image by putting the animals in heavy chains, taunting them into aggression, and leaving them out in all weather extremes to “toughen” them. Pit bulls offered for adoption to the public have a higher risk than other breeds of suffering a horrible fate. By advocating a ban on breeding this dog, PETA is trying to protect the dogs from people who would hurt them. This position would save dogs’ lives overall, not take more lives. Any good person could still adopt a dog—just not a pit bull who could be abused or bred to make more animals to abuse. When shelters are destroying dogs by the tens of thousands, why breed pit bulls or any dogs? There are many, many wonderful dogs in shelters who need homes. PETA urges everyone who can provide a permanent, loving home to spay or neuter and adopt one of these animals. Again, thank you for writing. I hope this information is helpful. Sincerely, Elizabeth Collins PETA Correspondent
Scout, I agree with you and Minniyar. I wonder if someone posted a link that had nothing to do with dogs, if people would get this involved. The Internet is loaded with sites that give a one sided view, and that view is not always accurate. For every person saying this is exactly what Iams is doing without any first hand knowledge, there is another person to say "how do you know for sure." I believe very little that I see or read on the Internet. If someone wants to search for abuse to animals, or children for that matter they are going to find it. Pick any topic and you will find it on the Internet. The Internet an be the best tool you will ever have, or the worst.
i watched the video, too. being in the medical profession i really didn't see anything too gruesome. it's true a hit in the chest can get an animal or a human's heart beating again, and save their life. i've done it to quite a few people. it's called a precordial thump. and xrays, animals do need to be strapped down. my cousin has hodgkin's disease (cancer) from xray exposure while xraying animals before lead aprons were worn and when people stayed in the room. she was a vet tech. if you've ever seen an orthopedic surgery, it's some of the bloodiest stuff you'll see, really looks bad, using saws and hammers and lots of blood, and people in awkward positions on the operating table. but, it's a good thing. so pictures of blood during or after surgery are really meaningless to me. i don't get the "chunks of muscle" being removed, i don't think that's a good thing, but i couldn't tell just how big the chunks were from the video. they looked like abrasions. i've seen the same behavior of the dogs in the cages when i've been to the shelters that i got my one dog and two kittens from. they were also in small spaces with not much exercise. at least these cages looked clean. and, even people die after procedures. i really don't go for emotional hype trying to play on people's emotions only, and this strikes me as doing this.
Well- I think the pictures look terrible... and it makes me wonder why everyone is jumping to defend them.... Oh well, it doesn't matter to me. I will do what I want to do (not buy Iams) and everyone else will do what they want to do...
ah yes cricketmom.........the dark side. i am not trying to change anyones mind. i am just trying to show that there can be other ways to view what you are seeing. if anyone could just look for themselves and make up their own mind after reviewing what they see on both sides. i am not in a research environment but the pic's were something i could explain to people from being in the hopsital environment with animals. then let people decide for themselves after reading an explanation of what it is they are seeing. the more informed a person is the better they can make up their own mind. either way it goes.
Scout, you did a great job of explaining. Plus, you have the experience and knowledge of being able to explain another way to look at these pictures. Things are never as simple as they seem. There is always the "buts" and "what ifs" that we should ask ourselves before saying what we read or see see is absolute.
i'm not so much for "defending" as for finding truth. there are appeals to emotion everywhere- from political campaigns, churches, everywhere. i don't like to boycott something without finding facts. people who work for these companies are everyday people like you and me, many working paycheck to paycheck to make ends meet and support their families. i want to make sure when i won't buy something it's based on fact, because the workers can/will suffer. i have a real hard time with sanctions against poor countries for the same reasons, it hurts the everyday people.
I love PETA. I really do. They have a good website and they can be very informitive. On the other hand they do have the tendency to strech the truth. I have watched the video. It didnt bother me to badly. I agree with everyone else. All the pictures they showed have explanations. As for the chunks of muscle thing. You dont know how much muscle they were talking out. I am not defending IAMS. I think animal testing is wrong. There is other ways to test the food beside taking out the dogs muscle and having them caged. As for the pit bull ban. I dont think so. I was bitten multiple times by pit bulls as a child. The neighbors pits would get lose and attack my dog. They were both unneutered and very territorial. The other pit was a female. I have also been bitten by multiple other breeds of dogs. I still love the things. I have multiple scars all over my hands and my knee from them. I dont think it is right to ban any type of dog. That goes against our rights.
I have no opinion on Iams, but I have plenty on PETA, besides the fact that they manipulate and stretch the truth to so much of a degree that nothing they say can be trusted (think about it, they are anti meat, fur, testing, etc. no way they will ever try to portray any of these places in GOOD light. Sure there are places that treat testing animals cruelly, or who treat food animals cruelly, but these are isolated incidents and like the accusations of the soldiers abusing Iraq prisoners, made to look as if it is happening everywhere) and they are opposed to the very existence of pets. Much of the info on their website is either false or very misleading. They also believe that both the holocaust and 9-11 were GOOD because it saved animals from being eaten by the people who were killed. Reasons I HATE PETA! (Quotes from other friends of mine, websites, etc.) "Despite what they say in their literature, these groups, especially PETA and HSUS, are for the total elimination of animals from our society. That means-- no pets, no meat, no eggs, no fur, etc. These groups disguise themselves as providing animal welfare (for the well-being of animals, against which few would argue) when they are really all about animal rights (Animals have full rights as do humans, and should not be in captivity at all.) These groups don't care how well you take care of, or love your animals-- they don't belong in our hands, period. PETA, especially, has openly supported terrorist organizations like the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) and the Earth Liberation Front (ELF). These groups are responsible for animal releases, fires, bombings, the list goes on. They are cited by the FBI as the number one terrorist threat in the US. Several people on this list have been victims of these attacks. These groups-- PETA and HSUS especially, raises tens of millions of dollars annually from unsuspecting members of the public. Very little of this money, just a few percent, actually goes to help animals. The rest is spent on lobbies to try to get animal ownership outlawed. You can go online and check their form 990's to verify this. The people really involved in these groups (not the rank and file donors-- their fund raising appeals are carefully designed to hide their real agenda.) operate with a religious fanaticism that is hard to fathom. A man in England starved himself to death last year over animal rights. These people are ruthless in their techniques, and are not afraid to lie, cheat, deceive, resort to terrorism, etc. to get their way. They tirelessly work at all levels of government to get our rights to own animals taken away. Every time something bad happens involving an animal, they come out with verbiage like what was published concerning the Wildebeest incident. These groups have been known to send spies wired with hidden cameras into a facility to try and get pictures of abuse. They file false complaints against animal facilities. They use deceiving connections between things like meat production and the holucast. They hand out gory literature to children to convince them that their fur-wearing mothers are murderers. The list goes on and on." "a.. They want animals to have more rights than human beings. b.. They are against eating meat. c.. They are against people having pets. d.. They are against hunting and fishing. e.. They are against the use of seeing-eye dogs. f.. They are against the use of dolphins by the US military to find ocean mines. g.. They are against the use of police dogs. h.. They are against the use of animals for research that saves human lives. i.. They are against putting animals in a zoo. j.. They are against using animals for any form of entertainment. k.. They are hypocrites. Exploiting human suffering to further their own agenda. a.. They claim the 6 Million Jews slaughtered during the Holocaust does not compare to Billions of chickens that will be killed for human consumption. b.. When celebrity meat eaters become terminally ill, they launch campaigns to blame the disease on eating meat even when no medical research supports their claim. c.. When tragic events occur in the news, they launch campaigns that call the event insignificant to the killing of animals for food. A prime example would be the killing spree in Vancouver in which 15 women were killed. PETA tried to purchase full-page ads in the local papers, saying it doesn't compare to the killing of animals for food. The papers would not allow the advertisement. Originally, the authorities believed the women were killed by Robert Pickton, a pig farmer who may have given meat products to friends that contained human remains. PETA launched an outdoor ad, which featured a picture of a young woman along side of a pig, with the caption "Neither of us is meat." d.. PETA put up billboards of New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani with a milk mustache over the caption, "Got prostate cancer?" when he announced that he had prostate cancer and ended his campaign for the U.S. Senate. Put animals before humans. a.. After September 11th, PETA issued a press release accusing Mayor Giuliani of "poor record when it comes to animals" claiming that he should be setting up a task force to retrieve nearby cats and dogs that have been "high traumatized and left orphaned" Keep in mind that all human resources were focused on rescuing humans from the debris, what rescue personnel who weren't killed in the collapse of the towers, were working days with little or no sleep; rescue personnel from around the country flew to NYC to help. b.. Claim that if research on just one animal could save 50 Million human lives, they would be against it. -"Even if animal tests produced a cure for AIDS, we'd be against it." - PETA President Ingrid Newkirk, September 1989, Vogue Magazine Spends more on promoting themselves than on animals. a.. In a 1992 report by the NCIB, National Charities Investigation Bureau, PETA spent 42% of its organizational expenses on fundraising. Only 20% on actual research and investigation in to animal cruelty. b.. More current reports examining PETA's tax filings have shown as little as 1% of PETA's total revenue actually goes directly to helping animals; usually small donations to animal clinics or similar organizations. PETA's 2001 tax filings show some interesting donations: 1.. Compassion Unlimited Plus Action - Bangalore - Donation - $11.11 2.. PETA Research & Education Foundations - Donations $29.16 3.. In Defense of Animals - Donation $71.11 4.. Virginia Police Defense Fund, Norfolk Police Union - Donation - $150 5.. Society for Abolition of Animal Exploitation - Donation - $150 6.. Kalamazoo Animal Liberation League - Donation - $150 7.. Vieques Humane Society - Donation - $25 8.. SNAP - Donation - $50,000 PETA's donations totaled only $206,655.58, but they had a total revenue of almost $14 Million. PETA spent the following on 1.. PETA TV - Expense - $13,268.84 2.. Electronic equipment, computers, cameras - Expense- $33,869.24 3.. Automobiles - Expense - $148,362.02 4.. SNAP Vehicle - Expense - $150,000.00 5.. Buildings and improvements - Expense - $295,101.60 (After a $195,000 donation of property) 6.. Land - Expense - 94,170.00 It makes one ask the questions, what is PETA really about? Why do they choose to spend more money on promoting themselves than actually helping animals? Supporting Terrorism. a.. PETA has contributed thousands of dollars to known activist extremists. Most of these extremist were involved in either ALF or ELF, two organizations under FBI watch. The FBI is monitoring these organizations for acts of terrorism in the United States. These acts include arson, bombings, cutting the brake lines on fishery trucks, breaking and entering, destruction of government and organizational research laboratories and murder. ALF, in one statement, has admitted to over 100 acts of terrorism, all in the name of animal rights and the economy. b.. PETA has given over $45,000 to the defense of Rodney Coronado, an ALF member convicted of a firebombing at Michigan State University. During this criminal act of arson, Rodney Coronado stole documents and had them sent to a PETA member, the sending of these packages was prearranged by the president of PETA, herself. One of the packages was intercepted by the FBI. c.. Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber, during his last meal, decided to not eat meat. PETA's response to this was given by Bruce Friedrich, when he told reporters "Mr. McVeigh's decision to go vegetarian groups him with some of the world's greatest visionaries." d.. PETA published a pamphlet entitled "Activism and the law", that offers advice on burning laboratory buildings. This same pamphlet states "there is a higher law than that written by those who subjugate the helpless", it states that the use of illegal actions may be unpopular, but "no struggle against exploitation has been won without them." e.. PETA contributed $27,000 to the legal defense of Roger Troen for burglary and arson at the University of Oregon in 1986. In 1989, PETA informed its members of the payment. f.. PETA's 1988 Form 990. PETA contributed $7,500 to the legal defense of Fran Stephanie Trutt, convicted of possessing pipe bombs and prosecuted for the attempted murder of the president of a medical laboratory. g.. PETA's 2001 Form 990. PETA payed lawyer fees for animal rights criminals involving the North American Earth Liberation Front, an FBI-declared domestic terrorist organization. -"I will be the last person to condemn ALF (Animal Liberation Front)." - Ingrid Newkirk, in the New York Daily News, [December 7, 1997] -"McVeigh's decision to go vegetarian groups him with some of the world's greatest visionaries." - Bruce Friedrich praising Oklahoma City bomber and mass-murderer Timothy McVeigh, for choosing a vegetarian last meal -"If we really believe that animals have the same right to be free from pain and suffering at our hands, then, of course we're going to be, as a movement, blowing things up and smashing windows . I think it's a great way to bring about animal liberation . I think it would be great if all of the fast-food outlets, slaughterhouses, these laboratories, and the banks that fund them exploded tomorrow. I think it's perfectly appropriate for people to take bricks and toss them through the windows ... Hallelujah to the people who are willing to do it." - Bruce Friedrich, vegan campaign coordinator of PETA, "Animal Rights 2001" conference Guilty of being hypocrites. a.. PETA claims animal research is useless to the medical field, but their Vice President, Mary Beth Sweetland, has no problem injecting insulin to help control her diabetes. She claims that she is not a hypocrite, but she needs her life to continue fighting for animals. b.. In 1999, PETA euthanized 1,325 of the 2,103 animals it took. PETA claimed that euthanizing the cats was much kinder than leaving them in the streets. PETA made the statement that a quick painless death is much better than a slow painful one. However, when hunters or farmers talk of quick painless ways of killing animals, PETA calls them barbarians and claim no animal death is justified. Brainwashing children. a.. They have committed to the use of propaganda in elementary schools, claiming they can influence the foundation of children's beliefs to make it easier to persuade them as teenagers and adults. They use scare tactics, and unethical methods of convincing children milk and meat is bad. -"Our campaigns are always geared towards children and they always will be" -Dan Matthews, Vice President of PETA on the Fox News Network [December 19, 2003] " "Do all PETA members do this? Of course not, that is only a small part of their membership. But it personally galls me to see people who love their pets sending in their hard earned money to protect pets and they are being duped. Let me say right now PETA does some GOOD things for animals - when it suits them. I think of it this way. There are many Muslim extremist groups that pander hate. BUT they do help some people in bad situations. Is that enough to balance the bad that they do? Would you join a group whose purpose is to take away freedoms because they feed the poor and help the sick? Their help comes with a terrible price. OK, before I say anything else, I am not saying all Muslim groups are evil - they're not. This is only an exaggeration to demonstrate my thinking. AR groups want animal out of human ownership - PERIOD. They want no more dog, cat, bird, or I suppose insects being bred by man FOR ANY REASON and they don't care how they accomplish it." Check out this place to learn more (just search the web, the TRUTH about PETA is everywhere) http://www.animalscam.com/organizations.cfm ~Seij