Has anyone notice our new official sponsor "Puppy Escrow". Even though their services does not start until March 15, 2004, We think it will help people feel safer about buying a pet online. It works like this: -The buyer wants to make sure they get their puppy for their money. -The seller wants to make sure they get their money and it is good. (fake money orders) Well "Puppy Escrow" plays the middle man in the transaction. They guarantee both parties get what they want. This is all done with an escrow agreement. We would like to hear your feed back.
Sounds like a good idea to me, but who would the prospective buyer go to if there was a problem with a puppy? I know there are contracts, but if the money is going by a third person, how would all of that work?
I agree with Therapymom but I also don't think that puppies should be bought online at all. People should take the time to meet the parents, talk to the breeder and have lifetime support at the very least.
agree totally with you carrott. I just would be very leary about buy via internet. Unless, you were in the position where you could go and meet the owners, parents of the puppy and see the conditions in which they were raised. I am just not comfortable buying on line..anything for that matter. Guess I am a little backwards yet with all this progress!! lol
I'm having to buy a dog for the first time without seeing the parents or meeting the puppy. We've been looking for a show quality newfoundland, and there just arent any sold in our area that I've been pleased with. So we did a lot of research and found a breeder in ontario, we'll hopefully get our puppy sometime late summer. It will be weird! I'm reassured by the fact that the breeder is both Canadian Kennel Club licensed, AKC registered, her dogs have dual championship titles in both the ckc and akc, not to mention a ton of working titles and she's a member of the newfoundland club of america and a breeder in excellent standing with them. Any thing that can be done to prevent the fraud like that found elsewhere on this site referring to the Lisa Crocker thing is IMHO a good thing.
well this is like pay pal, or pay direct, but even when we have worked with that there are problems. witht them the $ is transfered when the item is shipped (not sure how this works) but we bought an entertainment system on e-bay payed with pay-pal items were shipped money got transfered, items arrived and were not what we payed for. We filed a complaint got our money back but it took like 3 months. If only there wern't jerks out there people would be able to trust one another. You can say you are a good breeder but all you have is your word and sometimes that is not enough. I've always said one of these days I'm buying a huge island and repopulating my own country, where if ther is freedom of speach there are no loopholes, if you want to worship the all mighty lobster God that's fine too. So when I start my country I'll let you guys know and all of us good natured happy people can live without being worried about being screwed over. LOL
Actually it is totally different from paypal because each transaction is through an escrow agreement. Here are the steps to a transaction: 1. The price of the puppy is agreed apon by the buyer and seller. 2. The buyer then pays "Puppy Escrow" and the payment is put into an escrow account. 3. Once payment clears, the Seller is notified to send the puppy. 4. The buyer receives the puppy and notifies "Puppy Escrow". 5. "Puppy Escrow" then releases the money to the seller. All shipping methods are tracked. There are some agreements, they have, that allow a health inspection of the puppy before the tansaction is final. If a transaction goes bad in the middle of the processes. The seller will be returned the puppy and the buyer returned their money. The return processes should take no more then 2 weeks on the money.
This puppy escrow account doesn't help, however, with the main problem. I understand reputable breeders having websites but reputable, responsible breeders want to deal with their buyers. They want to meet and deal with the buyers, check out their buyers' homes and vet references, and pick the correct puppy to fit the buyer. The puppy escrow won't help them and will help those who just want to make money.
You made a good point cmaciain, we wish EVERY breeder would be that responsible. But we all know that will probably never happen. I think "Puppy Escrow"'s main concern is trying to protect the first time dog owners from those type of breeders and scammers. That is why there is a health inspection period available. Since no one can stop these breeders and scammers from selling. "Puppy Escrow" is offering it service to HELP protect. "If a kid is going to cross a busy highway no matter what you do, then why not hold his hand to make sure he makes it safe to the other side."
Since they are the sponsor you receive funding from them but you also say that "we wish EVERY breeder would be that responsible" in getting to know their customers in order to place their dogs. Why are you letting them sponsor and potentially get revenue from people then? You must know that not many respectable breeders would do online transactions in order to sell their pups so why encourage/support it through your website? I can understand Minniyar's post where the breed was exceedingly difficult to find but first time buyers (who, you imply will be best protected by "puppy escrow") often go for the tried popular breeds such as Yorkie's and Golden's which can, more often than not, be found locally. "Since no one can stop these breeders and scammers from selling. "Puppy Escrow" is offering it service to HELP protect." Actually you can, your allowance of their sponsorship is parallel to people thinking they're 'rescuing' puppies from petshops by purchasing them, BYB's and puppy mills then do what? They breed more, sure "Puppy Escrow" will attempt to verify whether the puppy is in healthy condition but it does not say anything about the living condition or treatment of the bitch and stud. You're just perpetuating the profit and abuse and getting the money second-hand from these breeders via "puppy escrow" SHAME
You bring up some good point, and we respect your opinion. But you are turning around a good thing. That good thing is to help protect people from fraud. We have received lots of email from people, who know no better, who have been scammed. We need to try to keep it from happening to our other website visitors, that is why we allowed this sponsor. If we don't put something in place to help protect our visitors, then it gives us a bad name. But as you pointed out. We are going to lose both ways. This was put in place to help, not to just make a buck.
I am not "turning around a good thing" at all. Perhaps if the site devoted a forum on it's own to people thinking about acquiring dogs then you could educate them in that sense. Or you could have an area with lots of literature on what to look for in a good breeder. There's an even easier way to stop getting "a bad name", don't let people post litters for sale on your site. There are few, if any, reputable breeders that would ever dare sell their dogs online. They may advertise their kennel but they let the customers come to them. Essentially you are as bad as a pet store or a BYB and to me, this point was proved in how you avoided my questions altogether. "Protecting people from fraud" is beneficial but you're also lulling the uneducated into a false sense of security here through "puppy escrow". They don't see what's behind the making of some of these dogs. It's really sad to see that your thoughts are fixated on getting "a bad name" when you should focus some of your attention on the animals themselves.
We never thought we would get bashed on our own discussion forum. But everyone has there own opinion, we are sorry you feel that way. We are currently rearranging everything and one of the additions will be seperate sections for the "first time dog buyers". Just please be easy on the new people who ask questions, you guys can get pretty tough. :)
ADMIN Here's what I've deduced based on what you've already indicated: 1.people buy puppies/dogs off your website 2.some people have bad experiences buying dogs off your website primarily due to health reasons (but some fradulent as well) 3.people breeding these dogs are producing unhealthy dogs 4. unhealthy dogs are primarily bred by a) puppy mills 2) BYB (a reputable breeder would not sell an unhealthy dog, normally they would reduce their price based on the breed standard; improper bite, small for standard) 6. your site does absolutely no background check on breeders who list (I just created an account) and charges fees starting at $10, $15 & $20 respectively per month 7. your site gets a bad name because you allow people to post litters Proposals: -stop 1 which would interfere with 3 & 4 resulting in 7 becoming obselete -look into 6, do some checks on the kennels producing these dogs, see how often they breed, verify the health tests they claim if any, which would again result in 7 becoming obselete The reason I'm supposedly bashing you is that you're perpetuating the problem of BYB's and puppy mills and for the second post in a row ADMIN, you don't acknowledge it. I think you deserve to be bashed and I hope this post becomes more active. Since your last post was more or less directed to me, I also don't appreciate your sweeping claim about being "easy on the new people who ask questions". I have only been disrespectful in two posts on this board, one on the safety of an animal and the other about mixed-breeding. For the most part I offer relatively sound advice on animals due to my background with them. The only reason I stay here is that once in a while there are several members who care enough that manage to get through to people about breeding, purchasing and the safety of animals. I have said it before and I'll say it again. SHAME
Carrott I believe you're trying to bash Escrow before it even has a chance. Just because people advertise the puppies they have for sale on the internet (and a LOT of reputable breeders do ) doesn't mean that most of them are not selling healthy dogs and puppies from good backgrounds to people theey know nothing about. That is why each seller has an email contact. So that interested buyers can get in touch with the sellers, talk, each establish the other's level of concern and committment and go from there. It's there not just for the buyer, but the seller, so that both can get information on the other, references, etc. The Newfoundland club of america (and Akita Club of America, and most other National Breed Clubs) has a breeder referrel list on their internet site for people who are interested in Newfoundlands. Does this mean they're perpetuating the puppy mill because they're advertising breeders on the internet? I think not. And as Boxergirl has learned sometimes despite the apparent health of the boxer and conditions of the home and kennel, sometimes breeders who seem nice when you meet them upclose and personal are just out to rob you, so inspecting the dogs up close all the time as you've recommended can be deceptive. Did you know that many reputable akita breeders pick out the puppies for buyers, instead of letting the buyer choose? That's because after years of breeding, they have time to learn the personality of the puppies, the needs and family conditions of the buyer, and know which puppy based on it's personality will fit best into that home. A vast majority of those reputable breeders that do massive health testing on their dogs and puppies, that make sure the dogs they breed have their Ch title (at the least), that sell dogs on limited registration with spay neuter contracts, etc do ship their dogs to people without having met them up close and personal, or without the buyer ever having met the puppy. And they advertise their litters on the internet on their personal websites for their kennel. Does that make them backyard breeders only out for a buck? I'm not sure why you seem to think that because some provide links to their websites from outside sources like this site that automatically makes them BYBs. I view Puppy Escrow as another safety net, not just for the buyers, but for sellers. Geez, give it a chance.
if it weren't for the internet i would never have found my beautiful baby girl. i found lots of breeders on the net but very few who had their own website so i first narrowed it down to those whose animals i could see pictures of. i was very nervous about it. the breeder was in florida and i am in new jersey so i couldn't just go and meet the parents and the breeders couldn't meet me. she did have both parents on premises which to some of you means she has the potential of a back yard breeder. so to further narrow the search i chose her because she actively shows the father and he was ranked the number one anatolian in the country for several years. the father of my girl made it to westminster so i was able to at least meet him and his father(owner) for 5 minutes as it is very hard to really talk to these people at this show. i guess i took a big chance. i drove all the way to florida still very nervous but pleased when i got there. i think i would've taken a puppy regardless of what i found because if it were a bad situation i would feel good taking it away.point being i took a big risk but it worked out. i think for people who don't know much about what they are doing we need to give them as much help as possible. this was the first dog i ever bought. so i had alot of animal experience but not any breeder interrogation experience. if it had gone bad i would've liked to know there was a place to turn to.
Minniyar: "The Newfoundland club of america (and Akita Club of America, and most other National Breed Clubs) has a breeder referrel list on their internet site for people who are interested in Newfoundlands. Does this mean they're perpetuating the puppy mill because they're advertising breeders on the internet? I think not." I've given many members links to breed club's but always with the warning that just because they're in good standing with the club does not mean they're a good breeder but it does help. I'm not against people advertising on the net, especially through personal websites. Where does everyone get their info this day and age? The net. "And as Boxergirl has learned sometimes despite the apparent health of the boxer and conditions of the home and kennel, sometimes breeders who seem nice when you meet them upclose and personal are just out to rob you, so inspecting the dogs up close all the time as you've recommended can be deceptive." I really think you've twisted my thoughts on this. Also boxergirl never got a copy of her contract, a warning sign in itself. (no offense boxergirl) "Did you know that many reputable akita breeders pick out the puppies for buyers, instead of letting the buyer choose? That's because after years of breeding, they have time to learn the personality of the puppies, the needs and family conditions of the buyer, and know which puppy based on it's personality will fit best into that home." It's not restricted to Akita breeders alone, many breeders pick the suitable puppy for the home. "A vast majority of those reputable breeders that do massive health testing on their dogs and puppies, that make sure the dogs they breed have their Ch title (at the least), that sell dogs on limited registration with spay neuter contracts, etc do ship their dogs to people without having met them up close and personal, or without the buyer ever having met the puppy. And they advertise their litters on the internet on their personal websites for their kennel. Does that make them backyard breeders only out for a buck?" Did I ever say anything about personal websites or are you putting words in my mouth? I am referring to people on this site who sell their puppies. "I'm not sure why you seem to think that because some provide links to their websites from outside sources like this site that automatically makes them BYBs." Linking your website is much different then listing a litter, it is parallel to a petstore. We are not even on the same page here and again you're putting words in my mouth. Did I ever say anything about links? I am referring to the fact that terrificpets.com is fearful of "getting a bad name" because of the health of puppies and fradulence towards prospective owners that has occured during online transactions of animals. In order to avoid getting a bad name they've allowed "puppy escrow" to seal deals. Which, IMO, does not stop a lot of the bad breeders out there from making a buck. As I said before "unhealthy dogs are primarily bred by a) puppy mills 2) BYB (a reputable breeder would not sell an unhealthy dog, normally they would reduce their price based on the breed standard; improper bite, small for standard)" so where are these unhealthy dogs coming from then that are causing terrificpets.com's bad name? Think about it. And the next time you post something directed towards me please directly quote what I've previously said so I can elaborate on my claims to avoid further confusion. Perhaps my post came off wrong (& I can see in some ways where it has) and you were getting the wrong idea of what I have written, I am not against breeders having personal websites, (that's ridiculous) or linking them for that matter. I am questioning the background and history of some of the pets listed on this site. Obviously there have been problems or they would not have implemented it.
Carrott you say "Linking your website is much different then listing a litter, it is parallel to a petstore. We are not even on the same page here and again you're putting words in my mouth. Did I ever say anything about links?" Ok. There's a direct quote from you. Puppies that are for sale on this site, if you want to buy it you click on the puppy that is for sale, and it gives first the email address of the seller, and the URL for their homepage. Explain to me exactly how doing this makes people BYB or irresponsible, they have puppies, theyr'e looking for good homes for them, so they advertise they have the puppies, more information on the puppies is on their website, or you can email them. This makes them into poor breeders and pet stores exactly how? Just because it is posted here doesn't mean that they don't screen the buyers. People don't actually buy the puppies off of this site. The site merely provides a connection from the sellers to the buyers. If someone advertises they have a dog for sale in a newspaper classifieds does that maen that the newspaper is selling the dog? No, of course not.