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Hybrid Vigor - time to educate yourselves.......
Yes, it is REAL and exists in every living organism on earth - including dogs.
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Found [38] Posts :: Page 2 of 2
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Posted: 8:49:02 PM 1/5/2005
Coco pugs
Posted: 8:51:28 PM 1/5/2005
crispy puggers.

remember crispy critters?
Posted: 8:53:04 PM 1/5/2005
Try again, Lalayla.
Posted: 8:55:10 PM 1/5/2005
Oops, thought it was original. Oh well, how about shut up lalayla pugs.
Posted: 8:55:14 PM 1/5/2005
how about pug tarts ?
Posted: 8:59:41 PM 1/5/2005
lol scout!

pugmeal.
Posted: 9:10:22 PM 1/5/2005
can someone explain to me in less than 1,000 words what hybird vigor is and what it does thank you

and lol to the pug names
Posted: 9:24:35 PM 1/5/2005
I'll give it a shot.

Hybrid vigor is the theory that offspring of two parents with very different gene pools will be hardier.

It is a tendency, not a rule.

Frequently when one of these crossing occur, the best traits of the parents will shine through. If the best traits don't shine through than the offspring will usually perish due to natural selection.

If a limited number of individuals continually breed with one another and one another's offspring, deliterious (bad) genes will accumulate in the gene pool and more and more individuals will end up with problems. Breeding different genotypes together often lowers the risk of genetic diseases or defficiencies by flushing out the gene pool. This is why it is good to marry outside your immediate family.

If a genepool is relatively clean of defficiencies, inbreeding is no problem.

Hybrid vigor does not necessarily apply to interspecies breeding. (however, besides being sterile, mules have the strength of horses and the intelligence of donkeys {if the mother is the horse}). In the case of dogs it applies to crossing breeds, or wolves (which are not truly a different specie).

Humans are the wrench in the machine. Humans do not necessarily have health in mind when breeding occurs, nor do they have the knowledge needed to make the right choices. If humans all disappeared and left dogs to work things out on their own, eventually due to interbreeding and natural selection, a healthier although not truly useful monobreed would occur.

Hope that wasnt too many words
Posted: 2:18:43 AM 1/6/2005
~~i'm sorry ansy, i just couldn't resist. i don't mean to make light of a serious subject, but i truly think laughter is one of our greatest gifts. ~~

Pearl, no need to apologize.....I actually got a kick out of that.....lol (The article about human hybrid vigor made me laugh too - which is why I added it in my thread...lol)

Cricketmom - I read the same article you pasted here.......and again......you have to be careful what you read as alot of people are against the entire concept of hybrid vigor. Alot of what that article said was the truth......in the beginning the term only applied to organisms of different species....but thats not the case anymore.


Also, I want to clarify that I'm in no way saying that animals crossed for hybrid vigor will be health defect 'free'. You are going to have potential health problems in any living organism. All I'm saying is that hybrid vigor really does exist and is applied to many parts of our lives.

Saying that hybrid vigor exists does not mean that one is saying any hybrid animal is going to always be healthier. However, science has proven that more often than not, it turns out for the better.

Posted: 2:40:44 AM 1/6/2005
All my dogs are hybrids. I like the idea.
I don't need them to look a certain way, just be healthy, intelligent, and able to perform the job they were bred to do.
Posted: 2:47:49 AM 1/6/2005
To have hybrid vigor, the offspring must outperform both of its parents, but the offspring doesn't have to be perfectly healthy. (I know mutts aren't hybrids, and I prefer the term mutt vigor. But if I get into that issue now, I'll never get to my point, so for now, I'll just go with hybrid vigor.)

Let's say Dog A and Dog B are two different breeds, and Dog A has hip and thyroid problems, and Dog B has hip and eye problems. If they produce Dog C with hip problems but not thyroid or eye problems, Dog C has hybrid vigor because it will outperform both of it parents. Yet, because of the hip problems, we wouldn't call Dog C "healthy."
Posted: 3:18:47 AM 1/6/2005
protodog - I'm going to start consulting you before posting my threads...lol......you always find a much shorter way to say what I take paragraphs and paragraphs to get across. Excellent example!
Posted: 4:23:43 AM 1/6/2005
But it is also possible that dog A and dog B are both carriers for liver problems (or any such thing) and dog C ends up with hip problems and a liver defect that neither parent had.

When cross breeding you are only burying genes temporarily. If the 2 cross breeds have the same areas of weakness, (like the Yorkie and Maltese have many of the same issues as many dogs do) you have no more vigor that doing an outcrossing from the same breed.
Posted: 8:18:05 AM 1/6/2005
Ansy, we could do this until the end of time and prove nothing. You could copy and paste, then I could follow with a total opposite view, but I am going to stop here. You have proved nothing to me, nor do I need you to educate me on hybrids or anything else. As you can see I am quite capable of searching the web. I also know not to believe everything I read, just as I do not take these very long articles that you paste as gospel. My opinions are still the same. I doubt anyone is going to be swayed when it comes to THEIR opinions on pure breeds vs. mixed breeds.
Posted: 2:01:40 PM 1/6/2005
Correct, Yorkies. Breeding for hybrid vigor is an odds game, not a guarantee. And the odds of producing a fairly healthy dog go down when the breeds crossed share many of the same problems, especially when those dogs don't work for a living because the performance of working dogs helps the breeder weed out unfit dogs. One should not equate the cock-a-poo with the Alaskan husky.
Posted: 2:42:40 PM 1/6/2005
One of the uses of hybrid vigor as it is used today in animals is to cover up recessive traits. The problem with many of the pure bred dogs are that since they come from the same gene pool, the recessive traits show through. By crossing (and I am not talking about ligers, et al.) you get dominant healthier genes to come to the front.

Cricket, I have yet to see a good scientific article dispute hybrid vigor succesfully, yet I have seen many that argue for it. Now I am off to see if I can find any good support for your stance because I am curious.
Posted: 2:56:42 PM 1/6/2005
Cricket, I have yet to see a good scientific article dispute hybrid vigor succesfully, yet I have seen many that argue for it. Now I am off to see if I can find any good support for your stance because I am curious.


Running if you are curious and want to read up on this for yourself, that is up to you. If you want to prove my "stance" wrong in my eyes, don't bother. It can't be done. For every article "for" there is another "against." It is up to each individual to believe what they choose. I am done with this.
Posted: 3:09:40 PM 1/6/2005
-----For every article "for" there is another "against." It is up to each individual to believe what they choose. I am done with this. ------

That is why I went looking for support for your position: to see if there was another side. I had never really heard much of an arguement against hybrid vigor and wanted to check it out.

You can of course believe anything you wish, but it doesn't make it true. I googled and found your "articles." They were just posted on the net by some lady. I was looking to see if there was any scietific evidence, journal articles, or real evidence to disprove the hybrid vigor theory.

I am sorry, but you really don't have a much of a case on this one. The concept of hybrid vigor has been around for a very long time. I found literally hundreds of cases that cited evidence in support of it in valid scientific studies published by reputable scientific journals. There were arguements about what exactly causes it, and how to use it, but in the first sixty articles I pulled up, there wasn't a one that was negative.

The only counter arguement I found was some lady online citing examples of where cross breeding dogs didn't work out. As far as I could tell, she had no credentials and no hard facts other than the cockapoos, ligers, etc... That may be enough for you, but I don't believe everything I see on the internet.
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Found [38] Posts :: Page 2 of 2
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