a health certificate states that the animal was healthy and free from diseases at the time the veterinarian examined it.doesn't say that the pup will never come down with anything. that's what a health guarantee states. good breeders will not breed a litter that comes from parents who have obvious genetic faults. thats not to say a puppy from two obviously haelthy and screened parents will not come down with something. but it reduces the risks greatly
I am only buying dogs from now on with a health guarantee, unless i adopt one from the humane society or do a rescue. Health certificate isnt worth the paper it's printed on IMHO if the breeder isnt doing their job with health testing. What good is a paper that says my puppy is healthy 6 months later when it develops luxating patellas, or sebaceous adenitis?
Get a health guarentee. A good breeder should guarentee puppy FOR LIFE against any genetic defects. Yes, even with healthy parents it can happen, but it is less likely with a careful breeding program, and a good breeder will want to know of any problems in their lines to eliminate it in future litters.
Matizu..I'd be curious to know what you provide. I know you said you don't do any genetic testing on your dogs..so I'm wondering how you can assure someone that their dog won't develope a genetic illness? Sadly, most people don't know to ask for this or what to even look for. I think most people blindly trust breeders and petstores cause someone seems 'nice'.
a good breeder should provide both, a statement in the contract saying the dog was healthy at the time of adoption and is guaranteed free from disease for, say, a 72 hour period of time, so the buyer has a claim if 24 hours later it's sick; plus a guarantee regarding genetic defects that could develop in it's entire life and what the breeder will do if they do occur. that is what i have had with the 2 purebreds i have bought.
I did finally have someone ask about a health guarentee yesterday. I told them that I had only one puppy who developed a problem and I offered the owner the pick of the next litter at no cost. I told them I maintain contact with each owner and would be available should anything arise. You know I birthed them, watched over them, trained them, socialized them, gave them shots, wormed them, groomed them, bathed them, clipped their nails, spent countles hours with them before the owners bought them. I want the dog and the owner to be happy. I don't even return the phone call of someone whose voice doesn't sound right to me. I want the perfect match between owner and dog. Having the $$$ means nothing to me. They have to be THE owner for this dog. Look at all I do before the sale; I would do whatever was necessary after the sale as well.
I do. I give a life time health guarentee against patellat luxation, PRA, glaucoma, lens luxation, entropion, heart defects, hypoglycemia, and tracheal collapse. I also give a health certificate, and all of my dogs are OFA and CERF certified.
Chi, I think that you are to be commended for your desire to be a responsible breeder. I think though that you would do well to consider the implications of what you have stated that you guarantee. If you are not careful you are going to end up in 10, 12, or 15 years with a whole house full of blind, crippled, arthritic dogs that you have either bought back or replaced with free puppies. I am speaking from the position of a breeder of 25 years who does stand behind her dogs. All of my poms are descended from 2 foundation females, one of whom is still here and remarkably sound at 15 (prior to that I bred chows who were equally long lived) These dogs I mated after a great deal of research to males from 3 lines. I'm not going to say my dogs have been completely free of problems however they have been mercifully rare and the mateings that produced those problems were not repeated. I show and we have dogs here who were good enough to rank. Entropian is classified as "breeder's choice' by CERF, I encountered it with Chows. What they do not talk about is that an adult dog can develop entropian as the result of trauma. Glaucoma is the consequence of cataracts, which all seems pretty straight forward. When researching cataracts for a friend with American Cocker Spaniels, I ran into this statement time and time again, given enough time everyone/thing will develop cataracts due to sun damage. Samoyed dogs have another form of cataracts which do not always result in loss of vision. My 15 year old pom has cataracts which began to be visible about 2 years ago, she still sees well enough to mouse. Patellar luxation can be the result of heredity, but toy dogs have small bones and proportionally small grooves. Like people excess weight (I've never seen an overweight toy dog, you? lol) will result in a blown out knee as will a bad landing from a jump, or a small child reefing on a leg. Sadly like people, eventually dogs get old bones that is something no breeder can prevent, not yet anyway. Hypoglycemia can run in lines, but it can also be the result of lack of knowledge or carelessness, or bad food, or just plain stress. Again I commend your ideals, but idealism has to be tempered with realism or you are going to end up with a great big bullseye painted on your rear. For every scrupulous purchaser out there there is someone trying to get something for nothing. Statistics state that the average dog breeder is in it for 5 years. Try to set realistic standards that will let you do the right thing for your dogs, for your customers and for you, while not burning out.
I commend any breeder who provides a contract and a health guarantee, and does health testing on their breeding stock. That said, Maltizupups, if you are such a proponent of your dogs, why don't you start offering a written guarantee instead of a verbal one, and start health testing your dogs?
What do you mean by contract? I do provide a bill of sale with all of the information about the mother and father, shots, etc. It includes what training they have had, what shots and when, etc. It gives the food they are on and reference books I have found helpful. It is rather comprehensive.
All what information about the mother and father do you provide? Whee, they are great family pets who have never been health tested in their lives and should have been spayed or neutered instead of bred together to produce more mutts! I notice you conveniently dodge yet again my commentary on written health guarantees. But since you asked, Maltizupups, a contract is something both the breeder and the person recieving the puppy sign that lays out the exact details of the puppy's care. The contract includes the health guarantee in most cases. A solid (and good contract) should have a spay/neuter component (HA! Like you would do that when you are breeding your dogs anyway), training requirements, obligation to maintain proper housing, provide proper veterinary care, to keep in touch with the breeder. If the people decide at any time in their lives they don't want the dog, they must get in touch with you first, so the animal ends up back with you, and not in a humane society. It should come with health information that proves the dog has been health checked by a veterinarian within a week or 2 of the sale date, and has no health issues known at this time. The buyers will agree to provide annual veterinary visits, innoculations and booster shots, and other vet care as required. They will never resell the puppy to a puppy mill or pet store. The breeders will agree to have had the puppy's parents cleared of all genetic defects and conditions. If at any time in the puppy's life it comes down with a hereditary defect, the breeder agrees to either give the buyer a new puppy, or refund the purchase price of the puppy. Some breeders also have a breeding clause in their contract, where, if the puppy is bred without having genetic tests done, the buyer must pay the breeder a certain amount for each puppy born. Additionally, any puppy bred before the age of 18 months is subject to immediate confiscation by the breeder. As you can tell, the contract doesn't just have stuff in it to protect the breeder, but the buyer and the puppy as well. All those careful records you claim to keep regarding the care of your puppies (and the vet visits and care they don't recieve, and the fact that your breeding dogs haven't been health checked at ALL) won't do you any good if the people you sell your dog to end up being abusive to the dog, Maltizupups. You won't have any legal way to take the dog back without it being theft.
I am concerned about giving an open ended guarentee to include any health issues for the entire life of the dog. I would think this could make you liable for medical bills should the problem be included in your list of maladies. Those who purchase puppies from me take them to their vet shortly after the purchase. If a problem is discovered, then that would be the best time to offer resitution or return. I have no problem with that, or suggesting it myself. A piece of paper is only as good as the person who signs it. Having a contract does not ensure that it can be enforced. I would like to hear of someone who took legal action based on such a contract to take a dog away from someone. My dog was checked by my vet, who may I say is a true James Harriett. I asked if I should breed my dog. If there was any reason she could find that should prevent extending her line. She could find none. Her only concern was weither I could find owners for them because they would be mixed. I knew from my experience that these dogs are very difficult to find. I knew I could find the very best of owners for them. Each of the three stud dogs (all AKC registered Maltese) have also been checked by their vets. Two had a successful history as a stud; one was a virgin (yet his litter was 4 puppies, the other two 3). My dog cannot meet AKC standards because she is a mix, neither can her puppies for the same reason. I do not agree with your assessment of my being a back yard breeder. But you are entitled to your opinion.
maltizu your vet was telling you in a nice way that you are an idiot and the dogs should not be bred. i guess some people need to whacked over the head with a 2 by 4 before they get the message. keep on breeding your little mutts and the next time a small maltese mix gets put to sleep at the shelter and the staff is heartbroken i will tell them to sign onto this discussion board and thank you.
"I am concerned about giving an open ended guarentee to include any health issues for the entire life of the dog. I would think this could make you liable for medical bills should the problem be included in your list of maladies." Hi. I said *GENETIC* defects that are hereditary in nature in the contract agreement. Not every health problem that a dog is subject to, be it worms or fleas or getting hit by a car or the myriad of other health conditions that are non heriditary. "Having a contract does not ensure that it can be enforced. I would like to hear of someone who took legal action based on such a contract to take a dog away from someone. " Actually I know 3 breeders offhand who have had to do it, including the breeder that I"ll be getting my Newfoundland pup from sometime this summer. Not only did my breeder have to use her contractual power to reclaim the dog, the dog at that time had been exported to Israel, and was seized by the authorities there and shipped back to the US. It's James Herriot. And it is extremely rare for a vet to tell you honestly what you should and should not do. Because most people are going to do what the hell they want regardless of what they say. So while there's no medical reason your dog can't be bred, that doesn't mean moral issues aren't involved. You, Maltizupups, are a backyard breeder. And not even a very good one, since a good many at least have the presence to take their puppies to the vet at least once in their lives. Are you the only one who doesn't know? Wait, no, you can't be, cause all those people you've suckered into buying your dogs don't know either.
"I am concerned about giving an open ended guarentee to include any health issues for the entire life of the dog. I would think this could make you liable for medical bills should the problem be included in your list of maladies." the contracts usually have a list of what the contract covers. they are not open ended. my lab contract covered hip dysplasia and elbow problems up to age 2, but not cataracts later in life. my pug contract covers luxating patellas up to a certain age, but not seizures for the life of the dog. it does not cover some eye ailments. i don't think a contract should cover everything for the life of the dog. different dogs have different health issues. some of them can be caused by poor care and environment on the part of the owner. hip dysplasia can be worsened by poor diet, roading, etc. all the conditions have to be certified by a certified vet.
Maltizupups..if someone you sold a dog to 5 years ago called you up and said 'we're moving and can't take the dog, nobody wants it so unless you want to take it back we are going to bring it to a shelter.' Would you take the dog? Now let's say 5 former buyers contacted you in one week, would you take all 5 back? I'm just curious..just wondering if you take responsibility for the pups for their entire life. Our rescue group also has a contract which states that if for any reason the person has to give up a dog..or if we find out the dog is not being taken care of, the dog WILL come back to us. We only had one incident where we had a problem and almost enforced the contract (our group president is a lawyer btw). We adopted to a woman who sounded great on paper and had great references..she drove down from Dallas and when she got here we had a 'funny' gut feeling about her but she had already been approved so we gave her the dog. A few months later (and after many failed attempts to contact this woman) we got a call from a woman in Dallas who had adopted a dog from a rescue group and said it came from us. As it turned out, the lady we adopted to lost her job, dumped the dog off with a rescue group and skipped town. We considered getting the dog back from the new owner since we did not know her and did not approve her. But we checked her out and decided she was okay and let her keep the dog. Always go with your gut. LOL But I think having a contract like that is VERY important I would not buy a dog from someone who didn't make me sign a contract. I have in the past, but never will again.
I have a contract that covers everything for the life of the dog. However, it says I will take the dog back at anytime for any reason. If fact the contract the buyer signs says they must return the dog to me and no one else. If the person keeps the dog and it develops an illness that is (not genitic) and they decide to treat it at the vet. (something anyone that loved the dog I would hope would do) I will not pay all the vet bills. But if for some reason they were to return the dog to me instead of treating it I would refund there purchase price and take my dog back. Even if it were 10 yr old. I had one of my dogs from a person that was sick and retuned her. The person that has her now is so in love w/ her. Everything happends for a reason. Of corse I have only bred 6 puppies so I can afford to do this. HA. Murama-----Yes, truce.....:o)