I am a breeder of min sch.and I havent been here long but alot of you members seem to preach to everybody that wants to breed are even thinking about and sometimes that isnt the question that was asked.I thinking we should answer the post and keep the preaching in church.
I think people come here and ask questions because they don't know whats going on. There is no problem with people "preaching" because if the persons going to breed then they will anyway. People ruin breeds because they think they are good breeders and they are not.
This is the internet, we can not see there dogs or them so its better safe than sorry. If I see people breeding white dobes I get mad. If they are breeding to make good pets but have no clue about a heat cycle and their dog likes to bite people then they are idiots. I have no problem with breeding pets if they are healthy and still in breed standered.
***Edited By: joce on 1/8/2005 12:08:28 AM*** Reason: spelling
Some of us have very narrow views on what dogs should be bred, and who should be breeding them. The reason for these views if not to be snobby, at least not for me, but for the good of the animals to come, and the ones already alive. If someone comes here and asks how they should know when their dog is in heat because they want to breed it to their neighbor's dog, it is darn near impossible for me to answer that without also explaining that they should learn before they breed. If they had learned first, this would not be a question. And if they were learning and going about it the right way, they would have a mentor who would be guiding them. And would not be considering actually breeding until they were truly educated, experienced somewhat through the mentor. NOT just about to do it as soon as they can figure out that it is physically possible..
I agree with joce and then also have MORE requirements before I consider someone a good breeder.
I would feel that I was being remiss and irresponsible not to mention that. If I were actually having a conversation with them, I think it would sound a lot less preachy and more gentle, but on a forum, I can see where it would look that way.
***Edited By: shinyblackpit on 1/8/2005 1:50:39 AM*** Reason: sgjsftjeujha5e
it's all about education and getting the word out that breeding is not to be taken lightly and there are requirements for breeding. i agree with preaching every chance we get because if not the poster then people reading may learn something and help dogs. there are too many in shelters.
this is only my opinion but i am thinking that anyone who is breeding dogs is not going to come on to a forum and ask how to do it. so that , more often then not, leads me to believe that the posters who come on here and ask these questions are people who shouldn't be doing it. if i were to decide to breed my dogs, i would have bought a dog from a breeder with that intent in mind, the breeder would have sold me a dog who is breeding quality and any breeding questions i would have would be directed towards the breeder, or friends of mine who are breeders. i wouldnt come on to a forum and ask these questions. people always want to know the good stuff and never any of the bad stuff. that is true with anything , not just breeding. so i am going to continue to preach whenever i can because i am sick of seeing the mess our shelters are in, and sick of listening to people i know who work in them, crying their eyes out every time a decision is made to put an animal to sleep just for the reason that no one wants him/her.
If some didn't let people know why it isn't a good idea to breed, I'm sure the shelters would be more over populated than they are now. All we can do is voice our own opinion and hope that if the person asking about breeding knows nothing, they will change their minds and see why we open our mouths.
Uneducated people have all kinds of reasons/excuses why they want to breed. Most of the reasons/excuses are by far not a reason to breed. Just because they want their son or daughter to experience once in their lifetime the birth of a puppy isn't a reason to breed. They want their female to have at least one litter of puppies just to be a mother one time isn't a reason to breed. These are some of the reasons/excuses that have come across this board and this is why we will continue to voice our opinions/concerns.
***Edited By: halo611 on 1/8/2005 9:49:56 AM*** Reason: Added a word
I agree as well. I mean look at it this way. We have a regular poster on here that 6 months ago under a different name, only had two mixed breed dogs. We all heard how great these dogs were and how much she loved them and they were both fixed. We even saw pictures of them. Well awhile later she expressed that she was looking for a breeder of a purebred dog. She then changed her name and aquired a pet quality purebred dog and admitted it came from a byb, then awhile later and another name change she aquired two more purebreed dogs, and that first "pet quality" dog now is a "show quality" dog and the breeder is no longer a byb and she nows wants to breed. Since all of this she is now a breeder and has been for a few years. She has no pictures of her previous breeding stock, or puppies from that breeding stock but you can see pictures of every animal she has owned except for them. Now mind you she has asked question from how often do females come into heat, to can a dog get pregnant if they are not in heat, and has anyone seen this color. Now the color she was referring to is a very common color in the breed that she says she has been breeding for years. She no longer has one of those dogs because it turns out he wasn't even the breed she thought he was, and she no longer has the mixed breed dogs either. So does this sound like a "reptuable" breeder? This is the reason why we preach!!!!!
My mother and I have been breeding labrador retrievers for over 14 years now and love every second of it!! We are forever improving our dogs and our kennels(I dont know if I live in my house :) ). I do agree though the people who come on here and ask the questions a responsible breeder should know drive me crazy!!!
I have very good friends who are well educated in breeding, that I ask for advice! But the fact is, I can't possibly remeber everything. They tell me to call day or night, they have been with me from my first litter, and I have no doubt they'll be there till my last (although I don't call near as much). I only have a few dogs so I only have 1-2 litters a year if that. So I try to read up on stuff to keep it fresh on my mind. But I don't necessarily think you are a bad breeder just for asking for information when you are on here. I ask for information. I mean you have to start somewhere, I just ask petty questions, but you can't get into anything knowing everything.
How much time and research did you do into your breeding stocks lines before breeding? Did you do the genetic testing on them to ensure you were breeding from good stock that would not be handing down genetic health problems? Do you show your dogs in conformation? Do you make prospective owners sign a contract? Do you take responsibility for all dogs born in your lines, in other words, if the owner ever wants to get rid of the dog, do you make sure (as best you can) that the dog is returned to you? If no to all these questions, why not and shame on you?
If you did/do all these things (and more) prior to whelping your first litter, then fabulous you're going about it the right way. The problem is, as everyone else has so succinctly stated, its those who are absolutely clueless about breeding and everything that goes into it that get preached to. If you don't know the difference between say a luxating patella and hip dysplasia, you have no business breeding. These problems are a common genetically inherited defect that affect many different breeds. If you don't do any research into your breeding lines at all, then you're nothing more than a BYB or miller, and odds are high that at some point one or more of your dogs will end up in rescue, or even worse, a kill shelter.
I am not a breeder nor will I ever be, but I firmly believe that anyone who has any intention of every breeding, should get involved with a rescue group in their breed first. It is so heartbreaking to see one of your beloved breeds suffering from for instance hip dysplasia, or PRA, or whatever and turned into rescue because its owners didn't want to spend the money to help ease it's suffering. I've got a foster dog that was turned in simply because he had a flea bite allergy and it's stupid human was too d*** lazy to buy some Frontline (or any other flea medicine) to help ease his suffering. Instead once he'd chewed all the hair out of his backside, they turned him into a shelter and what do you want to bet, they already have another dog that will probably end up in a shelter as well.
I have absolutely no patience for, no sympathy for, and no respect for anyone breeding animals without knowing everything about their lines and breeding purely for "profit". If done correctly, there is very little money to be made in breeding dogs and should only be done for the betterment of the breed.
I think Scout makes an excellent point. In my own experience, anyone that comes on here and simply says, 'I breed (insert name of breed here)' then I don't see preachy comments at all. I see questions asking if they have pictures and whatnot, but I've never seen anyone tell them they shouldn't be breeding. But when someone comes on here asking breeding questions, then that is when I see the preaching. And I think it's justified as well because if I ever honestly wanted to breed, I certainly wouldn't come on an internet site and ask people I don't know questions about it. I would ask a breeder or the vet. Because the members on here are very knowledgeable, but they are not experts unless they are vets or work with animals for a living. And there are only a few like that. This is mainly just an animal lovers website. So when people do that, it comes off that they are inexperienced and that may hurt their dogs in the long run if they are not knowledgeable on breeding and everything involved in it.
Huntersmom hit the nail on the head. I would not ask or take the advice of a person that I had never met personally and did not know real well, about breeding. I do believe there are some good breeders on this forum, but I still would not ask them for advice about something as important as breeding one of my dogs. I have never joined in on the preaching for the same reason. However, I have tried to help two different people saying that their dogs were giving birth right now, and they needed help. Both times they left me hanging. So, it was a waste of my time, not to mention the fact that I was really concerned with the mom and puppies.
One sure way not to get preached to, is just don't bring it up.
I enjoy and love my dog very much, I also enjoy raising them from puppies so I can train them my way. I know other good dogs need homes, but I have contributed alot of my life to animals. I have reported cruelty and housed lost animals and placed ads for their owners. I also give food to shelters and participate and animal shelter fund raisers.
I am not doing the animal any good if we don't get along at home. I will always look to shelters to find a dog, but however me and my new dog meet, it will be love and attraction to each other. I am not going to beat myself up because I was not able to make a connection at a shelter as long as I stay active helping animal welfare and keeping my dogs off the street and keep them from being someone else's burden and keep them my responsibility.
I love my dog and want her legacy to stay in my life. She is a very unusually friendly outgoing chihuahua. Loves everyone she meets.. this is unusual. If I decide to breed her doesn't make me a villan. She has the temperment, she also needs to be defect free and pass a vet inspection prior to breeding (as well as the male). I must also make sure the puppies are all cared for 100% until death.
you all made good points but the point is when i write a post about buying a dog from a breeder I dont want to here I should go t o the shleter because homeless dogs needs home I agree but I think its a personel decision where I get my dogs our you get yours It doesnt make me a bad person. ALso crestiemoms you dont have to show your dog to have breed standards most of those dogs dont have a clue what to do take collie out of the ring can it herd sheep or a great pyrennes will it be able to protect a goat herd from a coyote I dont think it will because breed standards is how it loooks and feels dog to the person judging.most breed was created for a certain type of job that is breed standards also.NAd for your info I do rescue dogs and place all types of breeds and we still have are mix breed that we got from the shelter 8 years ago and also a collie I am trying to place that breeder didnt want no more because she wouldnt sale but the truth is if akc or ckc would make breeders reliable for what the sale and breed then we wouldnt have backyard breeders.
dgbydog, I think your talking about the one post from 11/03 about the girl who wanted to breed her 6yr old dog. I almost replied to it too but then saw how old it was. Her vet told her no but she still wanted to. Sometimes the questions are so strange and basic about breeding that people lecture to make the poster think twice about what they are getting into and things that can happen to their pet, and to remind them of the dogs in the shelters. I also don't think there is anything wrong with making a few bucks on breeding dogs as long as they are part of your family and treated as such. Not locked in cages and bred every 6 months JUST for the money. There is soooo much work and time involved in breeding, raising and finding forever homes for the pups that if a breeder makes some money, good for them. As a breeder I probably spend more time with my dogs than someone who works out of the home. They are groomed daily, go for visits with me, are exercised and played with daily, vet checked and the moms have their babies next to my bed. I love them with all my heart! They are part of my family and are my job now ( due to health issues and I don't work outside the home anymore) and I work very hard at doing it right and having nice dogs and am proud of it. People that post a breeder should only do it for the betterment of the breed and not any money can think what they want but I am totally ok with making a small amount of money to help my family with our bills! The dogs are happy, I'm happy and my customers are happy.