" Same thing would go for the cupboards, if there was never anything inside the cupboards, he would never have a need to go in the cupboards. " Actually, he opens the cupboards to use them as a ladder so he can climb onto the kitchen counter and look out the window. Reguardless of why he is doing it. He knows he should not do it. He knows it is wrong. You can come up with explanations of what he is reacting to all day, but that's all they are... explanations of how he processing the difference between what he has been taught as right and wrong. The schematic of the thought process that is taken to arrive is not the issue here... it's the final answer. Ultimately, the final answer to all of your explantions is the that dog determines right and wrong according to memories of past experiences. " He sure acts submissive when I come home....At some point you have come home and given the dog trouble for something he has done, your body language would be somewhat different, incl facial features. He wouldn't remember what he did but how you responded when you came home. " That would be a valid statement dependent upon a couple of variables: 1. if I came into the door acting similar to when he was scolded 2. if he always displayed the 'naughty behavior' when I acted similar to when he was scolded However, we already know that my behavior is not the same... the cupboard was given as an example because I had no idea he opened them... that room is unable to be seen from my front entrance. Also, he ONLY displays that behavior when he has done something... even if I come through the door with nothing but hugs and kisses. In fact, when I originally came through the door, he was displaying the 'naughty behavior', but became excited at my immediate jovial attention given to him. Once I started walking in the direction of the kitchen, the 'naughty behavior' began again. From this we can dertimine a few things... 1. his 'naughty behavior' is not consistent 2. his 'naughty behavior', although influenced by, is also not consistent or directly related to my behavior 3. his 'naughty behavior' coincides with actions that he has learned that he should not do. from that we can determine... His 'naughty behavior' is a direct reaction of his performing actions that he knows he should not do.
I'm not sure the dog is aware that he is "doing wrong" when he commits the action. If he associated a certain action with a reprimand then he wouldn't do it. It may occur to him that its wrong when he associates the action with you and that would make him cower. But at the time of the action he has not been conditioned to understand that it is inappropriate behavior. I think that is why a lot of people say not to stick the dog's nose in 'accidents' when you get home. I agree with sue that dogs are incapable of making 'moral judgements'. They are one of the foundations of 'classical conditioning' (pavlovs dogs). I also agree with her that they only want to please their masters. IMHO I don't think one should ever hit their dogs. The problem arrises when they associate you with hurt. They then become 'biters' as a fear reaction. And that is unfair to the dog.
Sue is 100% correct. When you react to something that the dog did, hitting just instills fear. I highly suggest "What all good dogs should know" by Jack Volhard. This will tell you a lot of what you need to know. Dogs dont know whats right or whats wrong they just know your reactions to the LAST thing that happened. Its all about the tone of your voice in order for them to know if what they did was acceptable behavior or not. Also, punishing a dog after the incident happened is pointless. If you call your dog to you and punish him/her, all you are doing is making an association (to your dog) that if he/she comes to you he/she will be punished.
Jason I don't think your really getting it, lets just leave it as that you don't agree, you are allowed to disagree. But sinse I'm here....the dog using the cupboards to get to the window is of course...Hes rewarded by being able to see out the window....The fact that he was able to figure that out tells me hes intelligent and can do some problem solving. Your kind of dog would respond more to your behavior than say mabe a bulldog. But if given the chance even a bulldog can problem solve. Leeza is 10 and a French Bulldog, she got herself tangled in a park bench once, the line was tangled along the seat part (length wise) she followed the line from her to the bench and jumped up on the bench and followed the line off the other end to me, this wasn't the first time weve had an issue with tangling. If the dogs do get tangled I let them figure it out, or Iwill just keep walking, if they don't figure it out they'll choke. So when I come to say a pole, you can see them working out where they should walk to keep from getting tangled.
I think hitting puppies is considered animal cruelty. Even if its for disciplinary actions, there are other methods such as dog training. Animals are defenseless, and we as humans should be here to protect them, not to put them in danger. Would we like for someone to hit us around and say it is a means of disciplinary action? Of course not! So why should we do it to little animals who do not no any better!
I have been known to swat at my child when she is being bad, and my dogs when they are being bad. Is that abuse? I don't think so. My dogs don't cower from me in fear, neither does my daughter. if I'm in the kitchen, and I look around to see the dog is getting up onto my desk to get a leftover sandwich, or trying to sneak my daughter's grill cheese sandwich out of her hand, I either shout or stomp. That invariably works in running him off, I only have to do it once (every 3 or 4 days ;). I rarely spank my child, or even swat at her, but I do it, and only if she is in the actual process of doing bad. Never after I've discovered the remnants of her bad deed (I save yelling for those moments) If I am playing with one dog, and other dog comes up and tries to push the first out of the way for attention, and when she doesn't move, bares his teeth or growls, that gets a swat, usually right under the jaw. Then I go back to loving on the first dog, and ignore the second. Is that abuse? Or correction? It's negative reinforcement, but it works. People say dogs don't know right from wrong, and to some degree this is true. If I come home, and the dog has been a wonderful dog, I greet him normally in a cheerful tone, he acts typically happy to see me. If I come home and he's gotten into the trash... before I even KNOW he has trashed something, he won't come to me. How does he know not to come to me yet, I haven't seen the results, I don't know he has done bad, and therefore haven't had a chance to assume the 'angry parent' mood/tone with him. But he still slinks away from me. Basically I'm saying the answer is somewhere in the middle. A child may not know that emptying a box of cereal on the floor is bad until after they've done it. They had a blast while doing it, it probably started as an accident, but when it's all said and done with, and they're looking at the pile of crushed fruit loops all over creation, they're thinking.. OMG. Mom isn't going to like this she doesn't like it when there's fruit loops on the ground. Then they hide. I suspect that it's a similar deal wtih dogs, to a certain degree. I never punish my child (yet anyway) or my dog for something I haven't caught them at. If I come home and the house is trashed because the dog got into something, I put the dog outside, i'm exasperated, but I don't yell, smack, or otherwise punish the dog for the behavior. Oh yes, animals are much less defenseless than children are. They have teeth and claws. If you discipline your dog so harshly that it is trying to bite you in response, that's abuse. That means the dog feels that it's life is threatened.
you shouldn't have to hit, smack, beat any thing smaller then you...........you heard the saying "pick on someone your own size"....how can something so small be a threat... they already know your the boss...if you have a hyper homestyle of course theirs going to be some bumping of heads............especiall when we're on the computer when we have kids running around on top of the dog or dogs......how frustriating that can be for the dog, kids, and ourselves......if you think that works fine for you, thats GR8T.....i can understand the hyper lifestyle when you mix kids with pupsdogs....i'm from a big family......you have your hands full.....god bless you...........oh bye the way no punt intended........this is an awesome site, it's nice to see people will take time out of their life to come into this site and support the little babies our man's beat friend
I am never an advocate of abusing an animal, firstly. I would never harm one, and would never advocate it. Discipline is different from abuse, however. I have 2 Golden Retrievers, both of which loved to mouth, which is of course part of their nature. A pop on the nose with 2 fingers (got their attention) and a very firm "NO!" was all that was needed to correct the behavior. A "smack" would have devastated them, as gentle as they are. Let's be honest: in the pack formation, the leader must show dominance through discipline. Again, I don't mean abuse. Have you ever watched a mamma dog discipline her pups? It's hilarious, and instinctive. She may be peeved at a pup for some reason, and may give a warning bark. If it goes unheeded, she might walk over and stand over the offender, and in some cases may nip gently to get their attention, then use her paws to pin the pup until it learns its error. She's not hurting them, but she IS teaching them. That's the theory we use with our dogs, and we learned it from our vet who has been practising for over 20 years and is amazing. Our dogs love us, but they respect us as leaders in our home, and show that respect through their obedience. We discipline them to keep them safe, but we always do it with love and respect to them. They may be animals, but they deserve respect and consideration, and love, especially since they give us so much in return.
If it is necessary for you to "Smack" a dog - much less a puppy then you are not doing something right. Only in very, VERY rare instances is it ever necessary to physically correct a dog or any animal for that matter. For example, if you are having problems with your puppy chewing things up or getting into things then it is YOUR fault! You can't blame it for chewing on or getting into anything that is in its reach because it is just exhibiting natural behavior - to combat this it is much more effective to keep a better eye on your puppy and keep things you don't want it getting a hold of out of its reach. (and when you're not there keeping it in an environment where it can't get into trouble... like a crate). Why would you smack them for your irresponsibility?