I was researching last night and I knew they put some creepy stuff in dog food but OMGosh! I cannot stand the thought of my dogs eating this stuff any more! I was just about in tears. I had heard rumors becore but never really know if it was true or not. These were some of the links I read info at.

http://www.petcaretips.net/euthanized_pets.html

http://petcaretips.net/euthanized_pets_in_food.html

http://www.jivdaya.org/rendering_plants.htm

http://www.belfield.com/article11.html

http://www.flintriverranch.org/uck.html

I want to vomit!

I also want to know if anyone feeds their dogs home made cooked diets. I just do not feel comfortable with raw meats. But I cook some of their food now. i want to go completely off the kibble and feed fresh home cooked food. i do not care what it takes or how hard it is. If I have to make doggie tv dinners and freexz them in advance. I Do not want any more kibble! They are my whole world and to think I have been pumping toxins into them just makes me cry.

It is easy to cook foods but to be sure they are getting the proper balance is what I do not know anything about.

i would think the balancing would be the same as if you were feeding the raw diet. i think cooking still destroys some of the nutrients but probably not as much as processed kibble.

Again P&D I am confused....you claimed you have done all kinds of research and below is a direct quote from you. So why now the sudden change?

"yep sure have and I am appauled that they are even putting euthanized dogs in some of the dog food! No wonder our dogs are getting sick and ending up with cancer. That is why I feed my dogs Iams and Eukanuba. I used to work directly with that company and know what goes into the food"

BTW we have already discussed this issue and I thought you knew all there was to know!!! Here is the link to read it. There is nothing wrong with feeding kibble as long as it is a good kibble and not "junk" like the kibble mentioned in your quote.

http://www.terrificpets.com/forum/16195.asp

I was aware of the rumors and Rusty's recent onset of problem had me doing further research. I Never knew for sure as for changing my mind I still do not agree with feeding raw. THAT is what the whole issue from that post was about. I am not interested in rehashing old posts I am looking for information and since this is a pet forum I figured this was the best place to ask. I already feed my dogs many cooked things I am wanting to know information on a cooked diet WITHOUT any kibble at all.

While The kibble i mentione may be junk to you it is not bloody raw meat and to me that is junk. I just want to get off kibble and go to COOKED food. I never said I knew everything. Stop putting words in my mouth.

***Edited By: pitsanddobes on 3/11/2005 8:57:54 AM***
Reason: added

Also I have found that much of the way Iams and Eikanuba is made has changed. While it is far better then some like ol roy that does not change the fact I want to get them completly off the kibble If you can help me with the information then thank you if not then thank you anyway.

First, it seems that you definitely need to overcome your emotional reaction to the thought of a companion animal eating raw meat. I don't simply throw my dogs a "bloody" slab of beef and let them chow down, you know. There's much more preparation that goes into a raw diet- and even through I've been reading and discussing diets with wonderful mentors for months- I STILL don't feel ready to go raw all on my own.

The benefits of a raw diet are disregarded when you cook the meat. Supplements of vitamins and minerals become essential. Cooked meats takes much longer for a dog to digest than raw meats do- and because it's a rather senseless thing to do (prepare your own cooked food when there are already excellent cooked foods on the market), you'd have to learn ratios that work through experimentation on your own dogs- because there are very few people who would go through the trouble of preparing a dog's diet, then in effect- ruin it by cooking it.

Yes, most commercial kibbles on the market are crap. But there are several wonderful lines that are affordable, easy to come by, and balanced- something that would take your "own" formula years to become. There's nothing wrong with feeding a dog a healthy kibble based diet- you can then, if you choose- supplement with lightly cooked boneless meats (raw is better), steamed veggies, eggs and the like.

Should you change from the poor quality kibble brands your using? Absolutely. There are better kibbles on the market for less cost. Kibbles that are formulated with your dog's health in mind- rather than a corporation's bottom line.

But really- if you are determined to stop buying commercial foods, you're going to have to get over your hang-up on raw meats. If you can't, it's best for your dogs if you stick to a better kibble based diet.

These are good sites to browse as you investigate the different ways you can feed a dog:
http://www.doberdogs.com/
http://dogaware.com/

btw pitsndobes, the thing about euthanized dogs and cats being in commercial pet food in the US is BS. About 50 or 60 commerical pet foods were tested for the dna of dogs and cats and came up wtih a total negative. Thus, the trace amounts of pentobarbitol that showed up in the food probably came from states that allowe 4-D chickens and cattle animals to be used in animal foods (Dead, diseased, dying, or disabled). Which doesn't make it any better that it's appearing in the foods of course, but still.


I'm with longdogs4me. Calm down.

In addition, many many people have made up lies about the sources of By-products in food and what exactly they are. By law, all food is USDA inspected and must follow certain guidelines in how it's packaged and processed.

By-products by law DO NOT include horn, hair, teeth or hooves.They do include non-meat organs like kidneys, livers, intestines, and stomach cleaned of their content. If you are grossed out by this, remember that the organs are extremely high in vitamins nad minerals, and they are the first thing to be eaten by wild animals because of their high nutritive values.

***Edited By: Minniyar on 3/11/2005 10:05:59 AM***
Reason: add

My aunt had a liver spotted dalmation that she fed rice, ground beef and veggies to 2x a day its whole life on advice from her vet. Her vet was against kibble, and raw. That dog wasn't heathly at all, and I think part of it was due to diet.

I read all about that study and sorry but I really do not put much stock into what they claim they found. I Am sickend about what I have learned. I simply will not feed raw. I am dead against it. That is my choice. But I do want to go to a cooked diet for them. I am not too thrilled about the meats we eat that are cooked and primarily like to eat my own meats I have raised but unfortunatly I am not able to do that at the moment. I am working on getting there again though. I raised my own meats and grew my own veggies up until last September and then had to move from my farm ending up in a suburban area here in Georgia. I felt a lot better back then and miss eating good healthy foods with no pesticides or other chemicles in them.

I would not put it past them to lie about what they put in the foods or don't. And I am more inclined to believe that all this trash is in the kibble we feed our dogs. Makes sense too considering so many factors. Seems to me that it is much easier to feed them the icky kibble then it is to take the time out to cook for them. I am willing to put in the time and effort if it means my dogs eating healthy. This is something I am very serious about. The kibble has got to go.

i'm no expert but i think that cooking food is worse than a good quality kibble, as nutrients are destroyed as someone above said. i don't know of anywhere that has educating material on a cooked diet for dogs, but do know of raw feeding websites.

***Edited By: pearl on 3/11/2005 10:43:13 AM***
Reason: added

minniyar,
I know I've been involved in a discussion before where you had stated that it was untrue that euthanized animals are in commercial pet food. This is always a heated topic and I don't want to get people upset, but I have read exactly the opposite. I read a report published by a woman named Ann Martin that had done these tests and also spoken to people in the commercial pet food industry. Someone who had previously worked for an unnamed company said they would put 20 to 30 thousand pounds of rendered dog and cat in their food PER DAY. Also, of all the lab tested foods, most tested positive for pentobarbitol but interestingly, purina and pedigree tested negative. But the pentobarbitol doesn't necessarily mean that dogs and cats are in the food. That can also come from livestock. What really grosses me out is reading all the ingredients and finding the ones that say they contain animal digest. Animal waste in kibble, yum.

I've heard so much contradictory info that I don't know what to think. I hope you are right that a lot of this is exaggerated. Personally, I look for the best quality food that has mainly no fillers and lots of good meat ingredients. My vet said that commercial dog kibble contains a lot of vitamins and nutrients that dogs need and wouldn't get otherwise. And, no they weren't trying to sell me dog food.

Pits and Dobes, if you want to feed an all natural home made diet, more power to you. there's nothing wrong with caring about what your dogs eat. just make sure they get all their necessary vitamins too.

Animal Digest isn't what an animal has digested, despite how it sounds.

For a definition of what exactly all of those 'feeding label' contents mean, including by-products and animal meal, go here please.

http://www.doberdogs.com/foodcht2.html

That is what I am looking into now. I would rather they be on a cooked diet then to be eating kibble. I read something similar by a woman who's husband was a truck driver that hauled for a company and delivered to these rendering plants. OMgosh! And you know what it amazes me that they say this pentobarbitol (spelling right?) is found in the food but it is from livestock. Now I am sorry but I have seen what some dairies do with their dead or dieing animals and it is not pretty. And that is the dairies. What about horses which btw horse meat is said not to be good for dogs. And what about the beef cattle? These animals are euthanized? Doutfully. the majority simply die or are shot. I find it hard to believe that they would spend that kind of money to euthanize a cow or a horse. Unless of course it was a loved pet. So where is this pentobarbitol coming from then? Cannot be from cattle or any kind of livestock if you ask me because they would have to euthanize a vast majority of them. I just don't believe these jokers are that humane.

My brother lives behind a dairy. Aurora Dairy in Florida. And I know what a Dairy smells like. WHEW! But when they have dead cows rotting for days the smell of dead cow wafts through the whole area. I have seen trucks come pick up these dead cows and I asked once where they took them. I was told a rendering plant. I had no clue then what that even was. I just said Oh! UGH! Now I know! That alone is enough to make me sick.


And you know what? I have bought bags of kibble that smelled like something died and they were not expired. Every so often we get a bag that just stinks to I don't know what! Sometimes the smell may not be all that bad but I also noticed every now and again my dogs would get the pukes form a fresh bag of food. I always took it back and got a new one but I am starting to put it all together now. So to me cooked meats and suppliments have got to be better for my babies then this junk. I don't have such a problem with raw veggies and raw eggs but raw meat is a real issue for me and sorry but I just can't and won't do it. I am very picky about my dogs. And that being the case I am amazed at myself that I did not know some of these things sooner. How could I have missed that is what I am asking myself right now. I just can't wrap my head around the thought. I know some of you think I am over reacting and maybe a little nuts but you just don't realize how goofy I get about my Dogs.

P&D, I do agree with your concern over the food that you are feeding right now- and much of the commercially available kibbles. Yes, multi-layer corporations that produce dogfood worry me- they are so far removed from your pet's best interest that they don't mind throwing what amounts to WASTE from other industries into your pet's food. There's no doubt that people should question the quality of a commercial kibble.

But I think that if you would DO some of that research we've discussed before- read up on how to understand the ingredient list on a bag of kibble- then you would see that there are PLENTY of healthy choices out there.

Wellness Super5:
Deboned Chicken, Ground Barley, Oatmeal, Rye Flour, Menhaden Fish Meal, Whitefish, Ground Brown Rice, Ground Millet, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Flaxseed, Amaranth, Peas, Carrots, Whole Sweet Potatoes, Whole Apples, Whole Blueberries, Whole Clove Garlic, Alfalfa Leaf, Yucca Schidigera, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Inulin, Fructose, Glucosamine, Chondroitin Sulfate, Beta-Carotene, Potassium Chloride, Zinc Proteinate (a chelated source of Zinc), Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Proteinate (a chelated source of Copper), Copper Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate ( a chelated source of Manganese), Sodium Selenite, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Riboflavin Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid.

You can know what's in it! Right? Companies can't put something on the list that isn't, in most cases (preservatives and things already IN an an ingredient are another issue) and if it SAYS "deboned chicken"- that's what's in it! Whitefish? Great! Oatmeal, Barley and Amaranth- much better grains than CORN! And all that gobbley gook in the bottom are vitamins and minerals- things you can look up online (the link Minn and I posted is great!).

My point is- you're afraid because you DON'T UNDERSTAND! If you take the time to learn about what's in commercial kibbles- about why one company chooses chicken or chicken meal while another chooses poultry-by-product- the number of ways "corn" can be listed on an ingredient list- the different ways of preserving kibbles- you wouldn't be so afraid! You'll certainly be disgusted at the way SOME companies market their poor foods as purely-healthy, but you'll be comfortable enough to make choices in their diets without the fear.

And OT, perhaps- but why are you concerned about raw meat, but not raw eggs? And do you understand that raw vegetables are worthless to dogs? They can't digest their nutrients unless the cellulose walls have been weakened by steaming or by being pureed?

There's absolutely NO shame in admitting that you don't know something. The dog food companies spend BILLIONS towards advertising and biased vet education- to FOOL us. We aren't born with this stuff tucked into our brains- we have to do the footwork- we have to do the research.

I can sympathize with your worry. But I can assure you- as someone who feeds RAW- that if you're picky about what kibbles you give your dog, you can have a very, very healthy pet and not need to worry about the chemicals and quality of ingredients that your dog is ingesting.

COOKING a dog food would take more preparation and research than feeding RAW does! And THAT takes an awful lot! This isn't something you can start doing next week.

You CAN, however- start to switch your dog's kibble NOW.

Relax for a moment- breath- do some reading on sites that want to INFORM, rather than SHOCK- and you'll feel much better about any choice you make. Good luck.

It took me a while to understand the dog food labels but now that I know what they mean, my dogs are eating human grade dog food. There are many good dog foods on the market which you may pay more for but you know that your dogs are not eating garbage.

If I had the time and knew more about raw feeding, I would do it. It just takes time to understand how much food, how much suppliments and vitamins and how to balance everything out to make sure your dog is getting everything they need in their diet. I would not discourage anyone from feeding raw but would encourage that they educate themselves before they do it.

What to feeds always been a hard thing for me. They had a special on the news a couple years ago where they tested for traces of the euthanasia drugs and they found it in a lot of them. They said it was from euthenising the cows though. Nevr heard about pets being in it. But when people complain that cows are killed inhumanely what are they supposed to do?
Pedigree was one of the ones with no traces so that s what I've stuck to. I know some websites say differently but it works for us. Everything else gives my dobe an upset belly and loose stool. I got really worried about bloat because meat wasn't the main ingrediant but when I switched he ate funny and the vet said the extra stress from that was more likely to make him bloat.

We were going to get chickens adn do the raw diet but I don't think I'd be able to kill them. I've heard that a big part of it is getting to chew on the bones and I don't know if the butcher just hands over chickens like that!

And I just have to throw in that one time we took my husky on vacation and all this grocery store had was gravy train so we got it and I know why they call it gravy train! It was projectile. What a name for a dog food!

I am starting to understand the food labels better now. But That is not the point. In my gut i feel there really is no way to be absolutly positive of what they are eating unless I am feeding it to them. As for the veggies I get your point about the raw but many dogs eat raw veggies like greans and stuff and they do ok. I do not have a problem steaming their veggies. I realize this is not something I can start right now this moment but It is something I want to do and it will never happen if I do not ask questions about it and get info on how to do it properly. I am not looking for information on a raw diet.

Feeding only a cooked diet can actually be dangerous to your pets health because cooking actually changes the molecular structure of food.
Whereas with Raw food it contains "enzymes" the necessary aids to digestion. It also contains amino acids the building blocks of proteins.
Cooking kills the enzymes needed for proper digestion and stomach health. The dogs body has to work harder to replace them. Cooking also destroys fragile amino acids.

P&D, I am curious. In what way has the making of Iams and Eukanuba changed?

Just a suggestion - maybe you should look into Innova Evo food or Natural Balance Raw formula.

Website for EVO
http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=product-detail&pxsl=//product%5B@id='1246'%5D

Website for Natural Balance Raw Formula
http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/products/RAW.html