I have been reading in post after post that if a dog is registered with anything other than the AKC, then there is something wrong with the dog or it's breeder. I can agree to an extent when it comes to breeds recognized by the AKC, but people seem to be forgetting the fact that there are numerous breeds that are not recognized by the AKC. I have two breeds, both of which are not an AKC breed... the American Bulldog and the Olde English Bulldogge. The problem is not with the registries themselves, but with the breeders who register with the registries. One of the biggest registries for the Olde English Bulldogge is the CKC (Continental Kennel Club). My OEB's are registered with them. My dogs are health tested, worked and shown, I offer a two year genetic health guarantee, a take back clause, spay/neuter contracts, breed information packets, training, anything I can to ensure the wellbeing of the pups I put out in the world. I do not consider myself a bad breeder and yet I register with one of the registries that is continuously bashed by many. I know I am not alone... there are good breeders registering with these registries. The point is any breeder can be a crook and dishonest no matter what registry they register through... just because a dog has AKC papers does not make it any better than a dog registered through any other registry. People need to research breeders before they buy.... look for the health and accomplishments of a certain breeders dogs, and know what you would like to do with the dog you may purchase. If you find a breeder who is registering through a registry other than AKC, do not automatically assume they are unreputable. Research them, ask for references, ask to see what they have produced in the past, what they will offer in the future, etc.
Now I will agree I do not like the way many of these registries register willy nilly... registering because a witness claims they are the real deal, etc. Again, I'm sure many breeders are dishonest this way, but not all abuse it. The registry is just there to print out papers..... it's up to the breeders to ensure they are doing the right thing, being honest and being reputable.
So, in closing (sorry for the ramble) it's up to you to research a breed thouroughly before purchasing one... research what different registries that particular breed can be registered with and find out which one most of the reoutable breeders use. Research breeders... it's not the registry that makes the dog, but the breeder that makes the dog.
Many registries will sponser shows, it just takes the initiative for the people who register with them to form a club and work on putting a show together. My American Bulldogs are registered with the ABA (American Bulldog Association) and the NKC (National Kennel Club) The ABA has a big hold on the west coast and holds shows throughout, while the NKC seems to be more of a midwest and east coast group... I recently changed that by forming an NKC club and plan to host my fist show this October (ABA clubs are dissmantling and we only had one show this year!).... if all goes well, I may form a CKC club next year to hold shows on the west coast for the OEB's. No matter, I am very involved with the bull breeds... once a month a have a bulldog get together on my property.. I give handling classes, hold a mock show, do a weightpull demo, BBQ and just have a good time visiting and helping. It's been a success and keeps growing... I really enjoy it!
I will continue to "bash" breeders who feel that supporting the ContKC (please don't refer to them as the very respectable Canadian Kennel Club) is a worthy thing to do until the ContKC starts doing their JOB- and registering dogs with any kind of reliability. I simply don't understand WHY you do- especially given the fact that you SOUND like someone with more sense.
I do, however- always attempt to make note that a purebred dog being purchases should be registered through the AKC *or* their national breed registry- who are often MUCH more reliable than the AKC.
You DON'T have to support crappy registries to compete with your dogs. The ARBA is doing a great job- has 2-3+ shows a month- more than the ContKC (even with the zillion and one 'breeds' they register) if you discount their silly "fun days".
And notice that the ContKC has a .com at the end of their website? The AKC and the ARBA have a .org! You're supporting a crappy BUSINESS. Supporting an organization- who do charity work and exist for a purpose other than $$$$- is another thing entirely.
I don't think the AKC is close to perfect. But for AKC registerable breeds- it's usually the best we've got. If breeders of non-AKC breeds are THAT responsible and devoted- they start their own club and registries. They don't turn to the ContKC. I hope you DO work to start a local club- but that you don't add to the ContKC's figures for the "opportunity". :)
If you reread my post, my point was not to promote the Continental Kennel Club (Which I never once refered to as the Canadian Kennel Club), but to let people know that the AKC is not the end all be all of registries... that just because thier dog is not registered with the AKC does not mean the dog is any less quality. I was not just focusing on CKC or AKC, but all registries in general. Many people don't realize that many rare breeds are not AKC recognized, and they need to research what registries do recognize them.
With my American Bulldogs (which I have been involved with for 10 years) I do register with the parent registries... the ABA, NKC and ARF. I have no need to register with the less reputable registries like the DRA, APR,CKC, etc....I show with the ABA, I have an NKC club..I weightpull, train in Schutzhund, OB, Irondog... I promote the breed in a positive light, am involved in breed rescue, etc. My dogs speak for themselves.
With the Olde English Bulldogges... the CKC (Continental Kennel Club) was the first registry they were registered with. There have since been about 8 little registries that recognize the breed, but CKC has by far the most registered OEB's of any of them. There are a few people within the CKC dealing strictly with the OEB's and not any of the other breeds. They have been working to change the registration policies... at least now, any dogs with unknown parentage are registered as such, and any pups that result from a cross are deemed as such. I never said I was fond of thier registration practices,but for the OEB, it's what we have. If more reputable breeders such as myself can start clubs and change the image and practices of the CKC, how is that so terrible? I will honestly do my part to make a change and know there are many other OEB breeders, owners, fanciers who share my point of view.
As far as the CKC having a .com instead of a .org, that is irrelevent... my website has a .com and when I purchased my domain name, I had the choice of having a .com or a .org..
But either way, I was not making this post to promote any one registry, just showing people that they need to realize there are many breeds that AKC does not recognize and that the AKC is not the only registry in existance. I will continue to do what I am doing..promoting bulldogs in a positive light and sharing as much of my knowledge and information on the bully breeds as I can. Papers are just that.... my dogs are both working breeds and working and testing my dogs has more of a hold on there worthiness than who they are registered with. I know pedigrees, keep very good records and am confident in the quality of the dogs I produce. I must be doing something right as I have pups reserved for breedings that won't be taking place until next year or later. So again, I don't think it is fair to bash me becuase my OEB's are registered with the CKC... I am doing right by my dogs in all aspects and just because they have a peice of paper stamped by the CKC, does not mean they are substandard in any way shape or form. Like I said earlier....it's not the registries that make the dog, but the breeders that make the dog....
Thank you, DooknDokkermom- my point was understood. Though the ContKC may currently get away with that abbreviation- it's wellknown that their choice of initials and their old logos were designed to mimic the CKC's.
And actually, .org vs. .com says a great deal about how they want to be percieved by the public. ContKC OWNS .org- but prefers to redirect to .com. TRUE organizations interested in charitable and educational work don't use .com addresses. The AKC and the ARBA didn't even bother with ownership of AKC.com or ARBA.com.
And quantity vs. quality is something you need to really reconsider. While I understand the need for a substantial number of registered dogs to exist within a registry for competition purposes- you would be competing agains much better dogs in better registries- which would say a lot more for YOUR dogs.
When dealing with "rare breeds"- multiple registrations become much more important. I probably wouldn't lay into someone who used the ARBA *and* the ContKC (although I'd certainly question their reasoning)- but to choose a poor registry from the get-go does NOTHING for you or your lines.
In the end, though- I think I understand the point you were trying to make. There ARE legitimate breeds that aren't registerable with the AKC (although whether or not the OEBD is one of them is debatable to many)- and in those cases, the "AKC or bust" rule of thumb is useless. There are many wonderful breed-specific registries that do better jobs than their AKC counterpart. But because there is absolutely NO reliability in the ContKC's registration methods- there's no reason a puppy purchaser should bother looking any further at a breeder who uses them.
I hope you find a more reliable method to register your OEBDs- because I like the rest of what I've heard from you as a breeder (and goodness knows that "trendy" breeds need more responsible people behind them). But your unreliable registration choice is a sticking point that isn't negotiable.
I have never denied that there are definitely other dog registries in the US that are perfectly legitimate. The United Kennel Club, the American Rare Breed Association, and the American Dog Breeders Association all come to mind. All of those organizations offer a variety of venues for people to showcase their dogs through conformation shows and performance shows. I have always said that if a dog is of a breed that *can* be AKC registered, then it *should* be AKC registered, because the AKC offers the most and best venues to showcase accepted breeds. Even though it's the breeder that makes the dog, a good dog registry like the UKC, the AKC, etc, that has a defined conformation show or performance program/schedule that allows people to compare breeding stock, to have their dogs examined to see how close they are to the standard, or whehter or not it can do what it was bred to do (for breeds that serve a purpose other than companionship).
I don't see that happening in the ContKC. Is there even such thing as a ContKC champion?? How can someone claim 'Champion parents' with that wastebin of a registry?
However, for all that they were the first registry for the OEBD, I feel like you're not raelly gaining anything by registering with the ContKC other than pretty printed registration papers. And given the poor reputation that the ContKC club has, especially with regards to poor registration practices and registering mixed breed dogs as 'miscellaneous/hybrids', I personally wouldn't even want to associate with such a shady registry.
I"m glad that you are dedicated to your breed and use responsible methods of doing so. I guess I don't see what is the point of registering your dog with a for-profit organization that does very little to promote responsible dog breeding or dog activites and has no better purpose for the money they make from registrations than lining their pockets. especially not there's a National Breed club that has established its own registry/database, like for example, the Coton De tulear club of america or whatever.
I'm happy to see that my original point has been made and that you see where I am coming from. I completely understand your point of view about the CKC as I held the same view until I became involved with the OEB. I also agree with you on the showing aspect.... showing against less dogs of higher quality is a better accomplishment.. that is how it is in the American Bulldog world...it can take 5 years or more to CH an AB within the ABA while you can CH in one weekend through some of the other registries. To the people in the AB world, they know an ABA CH means alot as opposed to some of the other CH. On the other side of the fence though, AB folks consider dogs shown through ARBA as somewhat of a joke as generally your dog is the only one in the ring... I have yet to see more than 3 AB's at an ARBA event... it is more fun to show with more dogs and in most cases, a major cannot be accomplished unless there are at least 15 other dogs shown of the same sex that you beat. So, for AB's most people show under the ABA or NKC... in OEB's CKC,WBA,RBKC and ARBA is all we have to show under, and CKC is the ONLY registry that holds multiple shows in multiple states as opposed to just one or two shows a year in one state.
As far as OEB's are concerned, there are very few OEB's that aren't registered with the CKC. Many are dual registered or even quadrupal registered with other's... the fact is that the only registries that OEB's can be shown under as of right now are the CKC, WBA (World Bulldogge Alliance)RBKC, ARBA and then your various working venues... Because the breed is so new (only about 30 years old) I'm sure things will change and new opportunities will present themselves. That is why there are breeders with the CKC trying to change the registration policies and get the registry more involved. I don't see a problem with that at all. I bought my OEB's already registered with the CKC (I didn't choose to register them that way) and will be registering with the WBA and the RBKC (Renaissance Bulldogge Kennel Club) to have yet more opportunities to show.
For myself, I want to make sure my dogs are proven in health, temperament, workability, conformation, etc. and any opportunity I can take to show or work my dogs, I will do it. If the CKC is my only option to show my OEB's, you can bet I will keep using them. Of course I would like to see more of the registries host shows, but the reality is there are not very many OEB's out there and even fewer being worked and shown. I know the other "breeds" being registered by the CKC are probably not being shown or worked, etc.... but the OEB is a different case.
I'm sure at this point we are just going to have to agree to disagree about some things... a civil debate is always fun though..thank you!
Minn you have good points, I understand where Bully Mom is coming from and their reasons behind registere Cont K C but I also think its a worthless registry. I don't really know if there are any ContKC CHs, I saw on their site that they do haev some shows/pulls but I looked it up and the standards were WAY TOO BROAD fitting almost any dog of the breed, it wasn't clearly defined and strict. The breed standard wasn't really a breed standard at all, just a vague description.