It still bugs me to this day that back in Feb. a really great reputable breeder of Chihuahuas refused to sell me one of her pups...take note she was going to sell it to me to begin with...I passed her questionaire but after I had told her I rehomed my blue merle aussie and the fact that I asked if her pups were already crate trained by 12 weeks...which by the way my chi is...it just really makes me mad. So I want to know, how is it any different for me to rehome one dog that was not a good fit for our family than it is for breeders to sell their retired champions to new owners?
Never mind that if you look at my history I had my first dog, a border collie for 15 years, my Gordon Setter for 10 years, both were pts due to problems with old age. I'm sorry but I am a wonderful pet owner and it still bugs me that somebody would think poorly of me for doing something once that they do over and over??!!
Ln, I don't think I can tell you that it's different to rehome. Just different reasons. If you've found a good home for your Aussie, then you've done what is best for you and the dog. We felt no guilt at all when we had to send our Rat Terrier male to a rescue after he had bitten our 8 week old Spoo pup in the head, damaging her eye permanently. We had toy poodles also at the time and we weren't going to take the chance on it happening again. Did we miss him? Heck yeah. Did he go to a good home? A teachers at a private school where he gets to go everyday and play with the kids. As I stated in my post about our 2 new pups and Juju that had to be spayed...she's not going anywhere. Doesn't mean we would not have rehomed a different one though. We are having Lily (Spoo) spayed soon and will be placing her. She has wonderful qualities, a lot of life left, and could be a wonderful member of another family where she is the center of attention. Do we not care for her? Of course we do! But on a whole, it is part of being a breeder, and not the best part either.
Hope some of this made sense. As long as it took me to type this, you've probably gotten better responses.
I'm not a breeder, nor am I someone that shows dogs or cares about the bloodline as far as it being champion and what not. I just want a great quality pet. I believe Icyhound spoke about it one time and she made excellent points about it (since she is all of the above)..And I do believe that Ltlgto has also stated reasons...So...you'd think I'd just let them answer, huh? They'll have great answers I'm sure..lol but coming from me...
In the beginning, I wouldn't have thought there wasn't much of a difference at all. I would think that it appears to be the same thing. Whether it's rehoming a dog that is a "pet" or rehoming a dog that is "retired", but now I see it differently. A pet, is a companion, someone you know that you'll keep for it's entire life.
Where as, someone that breeds or shows, is doing it as a business..sure they do it for the love of that type of breed, but more so because it's what they do. A sport if you will. And, when it's time for that dog to retire from breeding or showing...then sometimes, depending on the dog and owner, it's also time for that dog to "retire" not only from showing or breeding, but also to relax and get away. Does that make sense or did I just confuse the hell out of everyone? I think I may have just confused myself, but in the end...I know what I'm talking about. Sometimes it's easier to think something then to type it out.
I think that it is a little bit of a confising issue and I kind of agree with part of what each of the previous posters said.
The difference is that one gets a pet as a companion and in getting a companion they make a comitment for life- it doesnt make sence to get a pet as a companion for life and then rehome them because you have gotten tired of them or fancy a defferent pet. That said, if there is a solid reason why a pet no longer fits into your life (and you have done all that you can to make it work and it is truly beyond your controll then that it is a different story).
When a breeder has a show/breeding dog, they are there to further their breeding program. The same goes for service dogs, the dogs are there to work. Once their carreers are over if they are rehomed (responsibly of course) then that is ok because it was in the plans and the best interest of the dogs.
I think that it is not black and white and that there is a lot of grey area in situations like all of these.
DGI "Where as, someone that breeds or shows, is doing it as a business..sure they do it for the love of that type of breed, but more so because it's what they do. A sport if you will. And, when it's time for that dog to retire from breeding or showing...then sometimes, depending on the dog and owner, it's also time for that dog to "retire" not only from showing or breeding, but also to relax and get away."
Kinda like that, but not completely. I spend as much or more time with our dogs as anyone who works 5 days a week. Some of them sleep with us. We are very proud of what we have. And it's not any easier for us to see one go than anyone else. It's more of a neccessity (space, time, etc). But you are also right in that when it's time to retire, it's time for them to enjoy a new life. I wouldn't say any of our dogs have a bad life, but they do have to share our attention with others. I know some breeders that will breed a bitch until they are just to old to breed (8,9,10), then sell or give them away. That's to late. Lily is only 5, and she has a lot of life left to live!
Emma, well put. There is a lot of gray in there. Breeding/showing is not a business to me, yet you have to treat it that way in certain respects. If we made our living from breeding and showing, then it would be a business (and yes it can be done).
***Edited By: ltlgto on 6/2/2005 8:10:24 PM*** Reason: post-post
I was looking at a breeders site and she didn't want to use her dog for breeding anymore because of her coloring and is selling her. I think it's sad really, and think anyone that's breeding that doesn't keep the dogs as pets, besides baby machines, shouldn't breed. But that's just me...
***Edited By: thelifeofriley on 6/2/2005 8:22:34 PM*** Reason: edit
But Riley...if you look at it from the point of view that they are doing it FOR the breed, then it makes it different. Any GREAT breeder wouldn't be doing it strictly for the money...and I'm sure, the money they make from their litters aren't near what it costs to do what breeders do. The only type of breeder that will actually, financially come out ahead, is probably BYB's or puppy mills.
I wouldn't really know, because I don't have the knowledge that great breeders have or people that show/handle.
Ltlgto...It never even crossed my mind that it was easy for you to rehome a dog...I think it takes a strong person to do that...someone that has the knowledge that you do. You are showing how unselfish you are by allowing certain dogs to go to certain homes. But then, there are the dogs like Jujube..that you could never seperate from. Obviously there is a much stronger bond with some of the older dogs..like ones that you have bred and showed for a period of time, those HAVE to be difficult cases and I'm sure many tears have been shed, by having to let go, but it is in the best interest of the dog to do so. I understand that..just didn't want you to think that I was making you out to be a stonecold, heartless man :o)
There are plenty of people who whelp, show, breed, and place the dog.
Some become tresured pets, some become members that will do better in single, or 1-3 dog households. That is always a thought.
As long as the dog is being placed for the best interst of the dog, I am fine. It is when people toss them away like trash after they have wrung them dry that irritates me. It is when people buy a dog and toss it away when its no longer a cute pup that irritate me.
i honestly dont understand it myself. but i have pet mentality not breeder/shower mentality. i know awhile back scouts breeder emailed me saying she was bredding scouts mom one more time then spaying her and sending her to a working home. i was taken aback frankly. i can see where gto is coming from. and i have had this conversation with icy before. i just have pet head and to me even though i would be showing and possibly be breeding, a dog is my pet first and foremost. i can see i would never make it in that world.
All very informative responses. But what I want to know is that was it really fair to refuse to sell me a puppy because I rehomed one dog? A dog that I explained had a very dominant personality that I was unable to deal with? A dog that weighs 50 pounds and barks aggressively at the children ranging in ages 3 to 12 that come over to my home quite often? I just felt I could not have such a liability along with the overwhelming amount of stress it caused me.
It's not like I sent her to the shelter. I talked with the breeder of this Aussie and she was very understanding. She helped me to find the right home for her. She even told me that when I was ready for another blue merle she would make sure I got one from her that did not have such a dominant personality.
I explained all of that to this person and yet I was refused. I felt she deserved a better home without small children around all the time and with someone that was used to dealing with a dominant personality. I've never had a problem with breeders selling their dogs to a pet home. What I have a problem with is this woman treating me the way she did. I was very honest with her. So to other breeders on the board here I ask, would you have refused to sell me a puppy based on that? Why do they do personality tests on pups? Why do certain breeders say they want to choose the pup for the customer because they know which would be the right fit? This breeder made a mistake in judging this dog's personality for me. I thought that maybe an Aussie was not the right breed for me but my black tri is one of the best dog's I've ever had.
Ln from the sounds of your story I think that the breeder was off the mark. It sounds like you tried your best with the dog and given the circumstances the dog was far better off in another home through no fault of your own. I would have done the same, if there was any concern that my dog would have an altrication with a child, there would be no question, the dog needs to be somewhere else. I do not think that rehoming that dog shows that you are in any way an unfit or irrisponsible pet owner. But, just think, if she had given you one of her pups you wouldn't have Lilly and she is just the cutest little puppy-head that I have ever seen!
Some breeders are strange, as are some buyers, as I had said before take it and walk away.
I was debating getting a cardigan welsh corgi and I had a corgi breeder tell me straight out they wouldn't sell me a dog because I had to many breeds in my home. I was rather taken aback about that, but I've come to learn that to some people that is deeply wrong.
But to me, this is similar to the not selling to someone ecbause of age thread. In fact, discussing it with my mentor brought up the story of Daemion's sister.
Daemion's sister was sold to a lady in flordia. Great lady, she travels up to MD a lot to care for her god mother. Well Daemions sister stayed in flordia with her parents, an elderly greek couple.
When she was last up here she met one of Daemion's children and decided to buy him. She had been staying caring for her parents but another sibling is going to dot hat for a while and shes moving up to MD to be with her god mother. Her parents told her the dog could not go.
These are people who never owned a dog and where not thrilled to see her come into the family. She now sleeps on the bed between them with her head on the pillow and the husband has gotten up to give her more room! Spoilt! They keep her in full coat because they find her to be so pretty with her hair and they are in their mid eighties.
If and when something happens to them, she will return to her origional owner. My mentors contract states that she has to be contacted if the dog changes owners, and this lady told her the entire situation and my mentor laughed!
I think, sometimes, it takes life experences for us to take some chances and not take others.
And frankly, some chi breeders I have seen are crazy :P
Yes, I definitely am glad I have Lily. It was a blessing in disgues. However it was a big bruise to my ego. Icy, you are right about chi breeders, lol! I encountered some really odd ones. I talked with many breeders when I was looking for my Aussie and I also talked with many when I was thinking of getting another border collie. Also when I was tyring to decide if I wanted a golden retriever instead or another Gordon. Of all those breeders I found a few border collie breeders a little strange and the Chi breeders took the cake!!! So weird, lol! And Emma, thank you for your kind words. My ego is beginning to heal some now. Thanks everyone for letting me vent and talking with me about this.
***Edited By: ln on 6/2/2005 11:18:44 PM*** Reason: ln
Riley - I used to feel the same way about not wanting to see breeders rehome dogs - until this last year. I have several spayed dogs that are rescues (one was an emotional wreck that needed someone who understood the breed and had the patience to help her, another is deaf...). I also have a policy that I will take back any of my puppies at any time, for any reason. This means I have to have the space to be able to house the "needy" dogs.
I have some dogs that I will never emotionally be able to rehome because they have my heart. Some I know will need to stay here or they will be heartbroken. I have one retired girl that was spayed at 3 1/2 after having 2 litters and having more complications than I was comfortable with for her own health and well being - she won't be going anywhere, ever. BUT I did just rehome my first dog. Lexy was originally purchased with intent to breed her. I waited 6 months for her. At 7 months of age we made the tough decision to rehome her because she was VERY undersize - and we didn't decide to rehome her because she was just undersized. We chose to rehome her because due to her small size she was being pushed around by the other dogs and it wasn't fair to her for us to force her to live in a home where she was worried, submissive of the other dogs, and not 100% happy, so we found a wonderful home that fit all her needs (and involved a lot of screening because I wanted to make sure it was a perfect fit FOR HER).
Good breeders only breed until the dog is about 6 years old (depending on the breed this can be a year or so older or younger). This means with most breeds that the dog is only halfway into their lives. If the breeder intends to continue breeding then they have to replace their retired breeders with new ones and then they double the number of dogs they have. If the first dogs live to be 15-18 years old then you will still have the first dogs when you need the 3rd group of breeders. The breeder has 3 choices : Stop breeding, figure out how to support - both financially and emotionally - all the needs of ALL the dogs, or rehome the retired breeders some where that they will be the center of attention and thoroughly spoiled. Each breeder makes a seperate decision. I have 24 dogs - only 15 are breeding dogs - at some point I am going to have to rehome some of my adults. Which ones.... I don't know....