Bellanchico "Otherwise your in it for the money!! Simple as that. And anyone who disagrees with that please give me a name of a " responsible" breeder who has pups right now and lets calculate what they stand to make. "
Ok, you figure out how much we just made on our litter of two AKC registered Toy Poodles. The bitch was free, she was from our breeding. We spent about $2500 in showing her (and she didn't finish) with a handler in MS. Our male cost us $500 (very cheap price), and we spent $2000+ in showing him. He is a champion. They're both over 2 years old so we've fed them and vetted them since birth and since 5 months. They are both tested for genetic problems. Our bitch had a c-section and a spay (her uterus was ready to rupture). That was about $750+. Our only female has been to the vet approx. 15 times and she's only 4 weeks old. We are keeping the female no matter what, she is the end of our Jujube's line. The male is healthy as a horse. We hope he will be show quality. If so, he'll go for about $1200, if not about $800. My wife fed the female every two hours for the first three weeks. There's other things to consider, including more vetting for the pups, food, etc.
How much did I make?
I forgot, no stud fee since we own both. That is anywhere from $500 to $1200.
***Edited By: ltlgto on 6/30/2005 4:40:25 PM*** Reason: because
Duhh im not a breeder if thats what you little comment ment.
And who.... and I say who was talking about showing dogs? I said BREEDING. Pet quality dogs!!!!
Why should your dogs give birth for you to show them????? Did they ask you to show them. No thats something you want to do. Not you dog. what point were you trying to make with that? Maybe I just misunderstood what you were trying to say.
And assuming you have healthy dogs... you shouldnt run into a problem everytime you breed!!! (If your dog had a c-section i would hope you dont breed her again. ) So lets say you breed another dog,, a good healthy dog. Please list your expences, that would justify 9,500 doallars. like this breeder got.
dont give me that vet bills stuff either, your dogs are supposed to be healthy. One vistit while pregnant and one or two after, and then the pups of course. what else is there? shots, worning, that doesnt cost too much.
Listen DONT GET ME WRONG go ahead breed your dogs sell them for as much as you want, BUT I dont want people telling me they dont do it for the money. Thats bull. people think if you admit you breed to make money its BAD. Not really. Your just paying yourself for your time and investment. Its how much you try to make that makes a difference to me.
900 dollars for a Boxer is crazy!! They werent even heart tested or hip tested or eye for that matter!!! But like I said this is America and you can do what you want. And so did I. I didnt buy from her. But you know its funny I checked out her site and she has a new addition built on her house. ( but she wasnt in it for the money) ha please.
And did you say your dog has been to the vet 15 times?? what on earth for. Thats scary. healthy dogs dont go to the vet that many times. That dog must be sick, and excetpion in your case right. So you cant count that as a rule or normal bill for each breeding.
The thing is most people (including myself) feel that a dog should be shown, or proven, before it is bred. While every litter will have some pet quality dogs, a breeder should be striving to attain show quality or working quality dogs.
If there were a shortage of dogs, it might make sense to breed without regard for the dog's conformation or ability, but as it is, with way more dogs than homes for them, I feel that it is a necessity. I personally would be against ALL breeding, and I was at one time. But I have learned that without good breeders, breeding to standard, you would not be able to get a particular breed and have a general idea of the size, coat length, general personality characteristics, etc.
Well, it is an integral part, bellaNchico, because the majority of truly reputable breeders either show or work their dogs, because they have a passion for the breed and want to ensure that their animals are high quality and match the standard.
For a lot of buyers, it makes a major difference, regardless of whether we're looking for a show/work prospect or a pet quality dog. It's proof that the breeder isn't living in a vacuum and just picking random dogs to put together. Proven aptitude in obedience & agility is very appealing, or anything else that requires mental and physical soundness. For that matter, even if you don't care about conformation at all, it's reassuring to know that one or both of the parents of your puppy have the temperament to show - not all dogs can handle that.
OK Bella so you didn't like the price or the way the person did her breeding so you moved on.
There are some people that maybe do over price their dogs, but I think a lot of them do it to scare away people that are not serious about the breed they are getting.
Now my aunt and uncle bought my cousin a lab puppy after his cocker died. They did a lot of research and found a good breeder. They sell their puppies for $1200.00. I persoanlly would not pay that amount of money for a lab. I would go as high as $800.00 if it had english bloodlines.
Anyway my aunt spent a lot of time researching and I guess she felt that this kennel had the best quality and personality she wanted in a lab.
They are very selective of who they sell to and I think one of the things they use to weed people out is the price.
They have a beutiful place, but selling puppies isn't the only place they get their money from they also train bird dogs for people.
So there are some out just for the money and then there are those that are out for the best homes they can get for their puppies.
Look at Scottish Deerhounds they run about $3200.00 for a puppy. Does it take that much money to breed a litter. Probably not, but they only want serious people to buy and have their puppies. They don't just want anyone off the street, BYB, or a puppy miller to get one.
Now those that sell designer dogs for the same amount or more then it would to buy one of its purebred contruibiers is most likly just out for the money.
I'm not a breeder either but I would pay that kind of money even for a pet quality dog. I would also expect my pup's parent and pup to have all kinds of health certs as well as a guarntee. It sounds like you are grouping all breeders in the same place as this one particual boxer breeder. She might just be in it for the money but I have listened to plenty of breeders on this site that are very passionate about what they do. they are true breeders. They are working to better their dogs breeds. They are wanting to make the best dog ever in that breed line. I wouldn't have bought a dog from that lady either if she was not going to give me anything in writing that my dog was going to be healthy. As for the subject of designer dog, I have 4 dogs now, lol didn't plan on the most recent one, of which I bought my english bulldog from someone that I trusted, my toy poodle is registered but came from the local pound, my anatolian shepard, god bless her, is another pound puppy, and the most recent is a lil min pin that was given to me by someone that just had a litter to be doing it and didn't want this pup. I don't think nothing bad of those that have the designer pups. I personally wouldn't buy one just because, lol first of all, my house is getting to full now but second of all, I haven't met a designer dog breeder that I could trust. I have heard of a breeder that breed labradoodles that are trying to create a decent breed from them and are striving for perfection of the mix, but I have only heard of one family that is doing that. And they are not stating, "you can get these pups registered' or "this is a hypoallergenic breed" These people are stating the truth to the matter and have been breeding these dogs for about 6 years now. If I was going to buy a labradoodle, then it would probably be one of their dogs because they aren't telling lies but are telling truths and are trying to explain the reality of the mixing of 2 breeds. So please do not clump all breeders together in one big bunch as the people on here are just stating the facts, that it does cost quite a bit to raise puppies and breed to perfection. Thanks for listening and I am sorry this is so long winded.
The breeders will never own the fact that there is money to be made in the puppys they sell. They hide behind the phrase "We are making the breed better." Then, that somehow translates into being "responsible". But I'm not seeing a whole lot of better either.
Cash cows with a cause.
I have realized this fact so that's why I don't fight it.
Bella - This is a fight no one will win. So, we just have to accept this as they will have to accept designer breeders.
What is responsible breeding??? Maybe in this day and age NOT BREEDING may be the responsible thing. Purebred breeders are so quick to talk about the dogs at the pound, go adopt one, don't breed mixed, yet they had a hand in it by over populating the dog world. Remember, Designer mutts are a new thing.
Will that perfect breed or that perfect dog ever exist??? I doubt it. But they do it in the name of pefecting. That makes them responsible in their eyes.
BellaNchicho, you are obviously not a breeder of any kind. I guess that's what makes you an expert on the cost of raising puppies huh?
If you had read my post thuroughly, you would have read that our bitch was spayed after her c-section. Who was talking about showing? For breeders that show, it is an integral part of a breeding program. As for a 4 week old puppy going to the vet 15 times, most of that is for re-checks to make sure everything is going well. When you have toy breed puppies coming from a c-section, there is a high chance for problems due to the anesthesia. Our little girl, Jetta, was not eating well and could not latch on to her mothers nipple very well. She received fluids for hydration 3 times. At 4 weeks she has finally started to do better. These are things that happen when you have pups. If you think vetting is not a valid cost, you should pay our vet bills. It's not because they are unhealthy, it's because we take very good care of our dogs.
One thing people don't seem to think about is the cost versus the value of a dog. People go out and pay $$$$ for a car that may last them 4-5 years, but expect a cheap puppy to cost a minimal amount, and have it live to be 15+ years.
Why should our dogs show for us? Well, why should your dogs be loyal to you. Most, but not all, dogs in the show ring enjoy show. If they didn't, they wouldn't show well.
Not all puppies are show quality from any breeder, so don't let anyone ever tell you that's all they breed.
You may not like my perspective as a show breeder, or agree with showing dogs, but if we weren't here the quality of the pets people buy would be very low, untested for genetic health problems and mixed with everything under the sun.
I agree with the vet check ups ltlgto, if you have a puppy who isnt in full health then you should do whatever the heck you need to do no matter what it may sound like when you say its been to the vet 10 times. Its not about the money, like we have all discussed thorghly enough already. Thats an important role as breeder. You must REALLY care, and truly want the best for the animal.
^ ^ ^ ^ Thats more important than the designer issue, not to compare the love a person has for their dog's health and the breed quality or anything!
***Edited By: DontLikeMuttBreeders on 7/1/2005 3:42:03 PM*** Reason: yep
An FYI for the people that think the "designer dogs" are bad or the breeders are irresponsible. How do you think dogs developed to what they are today, yep you guessed they where all bred to be designers at some point rather it was the french bulldog for a top notch pet fit for royalty, Or the german shepard for its protection ability. As time changes the breeds are conformed to meet the demands of people and today that high demand is for a terrific compact companion. Rather its for those who suffer animal allergies or simply because not everyone lives in a large home with a fenced yard and can give proper care to larger breed or a dog the requires extended exercise. Or more simply yes they are adorable. I myself have a bich-poo and he has been the best companion I've ever had, truly a dream. And yes I did purchase him from a breeder. And as a Vet Tech and part time grooming I do fully support saving the lives of a shelter pet, but face it people the perfect pal isn't always out there, and buying a pure breed isn't any better either. In fact I bought a jack russel from a so called responsible breeder and it died of a tumor it was born with untold to me at time of purchase and the so called breeder refused to replace or refund the puppy because her "vet" signed a health certificate. Yeah great he checked eyes,ears,teeth,and for worms and thats about it. So yes pure breeders arent any different than any other con artist it depends on the person, not the puppes they produce. There are crappy people everywhere, and because they take fondness of a certain breed doesn't give rise to say they are in it for the money, most are in it for the general satisfaction of the love of the breed,the bonding, and the look on someone's face when they meet their new best friend.
And also for the breeders that post such thing as tiny teacup and that sort of thing, no I do not support that, that is a marketing gimmick. Every breed has a standard and rather is a designer or a pure breed, they meet in within 2-3 lbs. Ex, a toy poodle is 6-9 lbs any smaller is simply the runt of the litter. And yes there are breeders that specifically pick them out to down breed future litters because yes people love tiny fuzzy animals. That doesn't mean it will have health problems, doesn't mean it will be perfect either it's a 50/50. And with the mixed breeds say a poo-chi for example, a chihuahua can very from 2-6 lbs, and the poodle again 6-9, its not hard to average out a size. And yes I do fully agree thats its ridicules to charge a grand for a puppy, especially if its on the terms of runt of the litter, but then again purebreds can go for way more. The average cost for an old english bulldog is about $1,200 - $1,500. Those who can afford that, hey more power to ya, But for us average joe's that haven't managed to inherit fort knox's gold, I wouldn't take out a 2nd mortgage on my home to have a puppy.
FYI this is a really old topic. But I will talk and way.....STOP WITH THE DESIGNER DOGS!!!!! (yep i am yelling). If people want a dog and have allegies there are poddles, Shih tzus, chinese crested and a couple more i can't think of.
Now with the 'all dogs started out as mutts' well yes. BUT they were all bred for a reason shih-tzu were rolyal german sheperds to be herders. Plus more then one TYPE (there weren't breds that went into them but looks and types). These dogs have been around for hundreds of years not 2 or 3. Plus when they were started it took anothere like hundred years for them to be called a breed.
There names...Shih poos blah blah blah..... The breeds we have now were named after there area they cae from and things like that not a little cute name for fun. The reason they aren't named for were they came from is because if they were they would all be named PUPPYMILL!!!
So you people have NOTHING you here that nothing that can make me think it is ok. It is wrong wrong wrong. To do that to these poor dogs. So SHAME on you :x
LOL, it is just the newbies that don't know how to read a date. I didn't read the complaining on the two long posts the newbie wrote. Not worth my time. But I did notice a poster named DontLikeMuttBreeders! That cracked me up!
Frankly, I'm getting a bit tired of the "all dogs started out as mutts" comments that these people come on here and make. That statement just reeks of ignorance. Seems like they hear that one and all of a sudden they're experts on all dog ancestry - like that's all they need to hear and breeding mutts is the "right" thing to do. NOT!!!!
***Edited By: luvmypugglebaby on 5/30/2007 9:54:05 PM*** Reason: argh!!!!
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. Plato (429-347 BC)
I own a Yorkiepoo. But it is getting so old about people that own 'mutts' starting posts like this. GET over it. It's not worth the fight - it you're happy, than you are happy. Are you so childish you need to rub it in other people's faces? Oh, come on. Go play with your poochi.
"If your dog doesn't like someone you probably shouldn't either ~ Unknown
I have a mixed breed dog and so am I supposed to feel guilty for having one? Yes there are responsible breeders of mixed breeds. I have the same problems as any other dog owner but I also have the same benefits. I have a Shih-tzu x Bichon and I get the best of both breeds. Lots of purebred dogs are a result of mixing breeds; yes to improve the breed but consider the current Old English Bulldog. It's smaller than the original Old English (which in itself was a result of mixing breeds like mastiffs for bull baiting) because people wanted a smaller bulldog. Now the poor dogs have breathing problems and issues with their legs. The Lab is a perfect example of a purebred being exploited for monetary gain. In my opinion, mixed breeds or purebred is not the issue, it's the reason for the breeding and how it's carried out. I wanted a mixed breed because of the hybrid vigor; maybe you might think that's a myth but the gene pool in the purebreds is shrinking and will result in more defective genes. But in the end, I would love all dogs, purebred or mixed. I don't think it's helpful to insult each other; state your opinion on the practice not on the person.