I don't know much about pit bulls except that one bit my cousin's cheek off when she was little. She was at day care and the sitters dog attacked her. The chunk of cheek was sewed back on and the scars are pretty brutal. However, after being on this forum and hearing about the dedicated pit bull owners I realized that this breed is not all bad, however it is still a breed if I saw on the street I would be leery to touch. I know that is ignorance and not being around the breed. However I learned today that its not the breed, its the owners and how they socialize them. Today we were at a dog beach in Annapolis. A man had a large unneutered pitbull ( maybe a myth but I heard less testosterone when neutered). He was on leash/collar not harnessed. The other dogs were all playing fine, and fetching and it was nice to watch all these beautiful dogs get a long. All of a sudden a golden retriever sniffs the pitbull and he went for his neck. The golden must have turned because he latched on to his upper neck/ear and woudl not let go. The owner of the golden finally had to basically punch the pitbull in the face/eye to make him let go. It was kind of scary actually because even after he let go, the owner had NO control of the dog. The dog was pulling him and he was a big guy. People were hopping out of the way because the owner couldn't walk him out of the area, the dog was pulling him towards other dogs. People were yelling at the owner to kill that dog, which was, IMO completly ignorant and uncalled for. Howerver, is this purely lack of socialization? I saw the situation occur and the golden came out of the water to walk towards his owner and give his ball back and the pit bull walked in front and the golden sniffed him and started to keep going towards his owner. It was craziness. Not to mention, the owner of the pitbull did not even apologize or ask if the other dog was okay...which on his defense it was better he just left because people were very upset. I asked a gentleman if this happened often (this is our first time to this park) and he said, only with the pitbulls that come here.Okay anyway, so on the way home I was thinking about if that dog would have went after my dog (yorkie/maltese) he would have been a goner...He is actually very good around big dogs and plays with a year old boxer and full grown standard poodle here in our apt. community. Is it wrong of me to let him play with bigger dogs once I know they are friendly and I know THEY know to play gently because a lot of the dogs at the beach treated him much more gently than they treated the other big dogs. Also, is this pitbulls reaction because of lack of socialization? I know this is lengthy but after this incident, it really made me wonder what could have happened.
please no one take offense, I know i am naive when it comes to this breed, which is why i'm asking questions...i mean no offense to resposible owners..
***Edited By: PiXeL on 7/9/2005 5:40:27 PM*** Reason: to make sure I was not offending...
If the pit bull's owner had him leashed (and with a large powerful dog, a leash/collar is *always* preferred to a harness), and the golden was not leashed and caame up to the pit bull, I have just as much problem with the golden's owners for not properly controlling their dog. If the golden retriever had been leashed and under control, it woulnd't have happened.
I'm sorry that the golden was injured, and it is probably true that the pit owner could have done more to socialize his dog. However, taking the dog out into public environment *IS* part of socializing the dog. In addition, it is possible that the pit percieved the unleashed and therefore much more mobile golden as a threat to himself and his owner.
If my dogs aren't on a leash I Have them under total voice control, and if I even *THINK* that there's a dog in the area that is aggressive toward other dogs, I don't let my dogs get even within sniffing range of those dogs. I have yet to have a dog fight incident, even with my Akita.
Now that all said, if I had an aggressive dog I'd be smarter than take it into the random disorganization of adog park or dog beach.
***Edited By: Minniyar on 7/9/2005 5:48:08 PM*** Reason: add
I understand where you are coming from Minnyar. I guess I just feel like if you are at a park where dogs are allowed to be unleashed and swim and play and what not, a dog that is not safe to be off the leash shouldn't be in the park in the first place. My dog was on a leash, before anyone mentions that. And I'm glad to learn that he did have the correct restraints (leash/collar). This was not a large beach, which was probably part of the problem, and golden was returning a ball to his owner when the pit bull crossed the path so i'm not sure if that would count as the owner having control or not. It was just sad to see that it really reinforced the sterotype in many people's minds. It was horrible to hear people yelling that his dog should be killed....
and maybe idiot owner was a bit harsh, but I was still a little hyped up with adreniline...
***Edited By: PiXeL on 7/9/2005 6:08:37 PM*** Reason: mwa!
Maybe the Pit saw the Golden as a threat to himself (with him being un-neutered and all) and wanted to take him out of the equation, meaning he wanted to be alpha and show him, maybe dominance, maybe agression, who knows right?! It is sad to hear of stories like this and I'm glad you and your dog are OK, hopefully no long term problems will come out of this for the Golden.
Whenever I go to the off-leash dog park, I always make sure I have Jesse's leash ready in case I need to take her out of harms way. She can also get dog-to-dog agressive when on-leash but when she's loose she's fine (unless another dog is growling and snarling at her, than she'll stand her ground). I agree that people who don't have control over their dogs should not be in a place where there are chances of encounters which could result in what you have explained to us. If all owners were responsible, we would never hear of stories like this and the world would be a better place.
And yes, it was wrong of other dog owners at the beach to yell at him to get his dog killed. That's just plain rude and incosiderate. Maybe the Pit was well taken care of, and maybe the owner usually has total and full control of him, who knows, but stuff like this happens. I was working at the dog kennel the other day and a Mastiffx got loose and attacked a poor little Cocker I was walking. that mastiff, you would have never known he could've been capable of such an attack because he was the most gentle dog you could ever meet, his owners even walked him off-leash everywhere until we told them of this incident. Now, they will think twice before letting him off-leash anywhere.
Im a pitbull owner and at no time is he alowed off a leash only b/c he is unfixed and its possibale that it was a dominence thing, I agree the owner of that pittbull was an idiot alot of pitts for some reason dont like other dogs its mostly b/c of bad socializeing but if you own a ptt especialy unaltered male the smart thing too due is stear clear of a place like that and muzzle them,I dont like muzzels but I like the idea of my dog being euthinized even less,NOT SURE USE CAUTION
I'm a owner of 2 APBT, both females. Under no circumstances does a adult Pit Bull belong at a off leash beach park,dog park. It's not cool. The dogs dog on dog aggression has nothing to do with poor socialization.This breed was bred for fighting for many generations,so being dog aggressive is a hard wired response with the breed. The owner is a idiot.He should not have had his dog there.As a owner of this breed is I use caution, and would not take my dog some place where other dogs are running loose.Just common sense which this owner lacked.It's not the dogs fault,he's doing what comes natural to him.Aggression can be controled yes,but not loved out of the breed. Some pits are more aggressive then others. My one is off the hoof aggressive, and some not at all ,like my Piper.
So sorry for the poor golden… the owner should have know better. Shame, shame . Owners are completely responsible for the behavior of the dogs they care for....and Owners are completely responsible for knowing the way the pet they care for may react in any environment … and Owners should never take there pet out in public without having complete control. . I own 2 AST ( or APBT) male and female … Mine are collared , micro chipped, registered/ licensed and introduced to my neighborhood. My male is neutered .. Again it is how the Owner takes responsibility for the animal(s) they care for. Any one who takes on the responsibility of animal care should know how to train and handle and care for them. [ Red… again to suggest one can not “love” aggression out of them… I disagree with. If you love them … you will make the effort to educate yourself on proper care, and proper training. & if aggression is bred in over generation... over generation it can be bred out… and one day it will hopefully
***Edited By: ivydragonn on 7/9/2005 10:29:15 PM*** Reason: correct typo
Pixel,i'm glad you want to ask questions and learn. Under the right owners ,who want to do right by their dogs,this breed makes a awsome family pet. Idiot owners are the ones who make a bad name for this noble breed.Pits are not a breed for every one.I've owned 5 Pits,2 now . I will always have it least one APBT in my life. I love the breed.
Ivy like i've said aggression in the Pit is breed specific and can't be loved out of them,but can and should be controlled. Correct, if you love your dog,you will make every effort to properly take precautions and proper care of your dog. Maybe someday dog aggression will be a thing of the past.But again then our dogs wouldn't be what they are,they might as well be some other breed ,like a Poodle.
You're lucky. My Piper is a very mellow girl, but my Tigger is crazy . She is extremely dog aggressive, high prey drive, and sound aggressive.She get stimulated very easily. Any movement she sees from the window sets her off. We have to shut all doors so she can't see out side,other wise she goes crazy barking , whining , crying, trying to jump out of the window.I love her,but she's a lot of dog. Both my dogs love humans though,and Tigger is crazy for little kids.
Red… I know that has to be a handful… my last addition “ Bruce” the most abused out of the group.. was hyper, and whinny for a few months … but he was never let out. They chained him inside on a four foot chain. He was still in puppy mode, but with a grown up body… poor thing. But he caught up now and too sweet to everything except rats and birds … if they get on my lawn. Do you take her on vacations? Or travels ? how does that go?
Piper I can take any place at any time,she's a really mellow good dog,her Aunt which was Sadie that came from the same breeder was the same way.Tigger I love her,but we have to be careful where we take her. She listens to my hubby better then me. When we do take day trips I take care of Piper and my hubby takes Tigger,she respects him much more.Her dog aggression and prey drive on a scale of 1 to 10 is a 20. She' is that aggressive.When I took Tigger on,I took her on knowing this, and vowed to always take care of her and protect her. Her level aggression she should've been pts,but in the right home she can lead a fairly normal life.In the wrong home Tigger is major liability.She's slowing down now at 8 years old,and starting to show her age.As far as humans are concerened I would trust her beyond any of my 4 other dogs with adults and children. She's so loving and good natured.The good out wieghs the bad.