After picking out a male Golden yesterday & getting the OK you can have him from the breeder - about 20 minutes later while other people were still picking their pups she tells me that my pup was one that she really had an interest in (she already had kept one female and one male for herself) She was concerned that if the male she had chosen did't work out for breeding she would of wished she kept my pup. She asked me if I intended to have him neutered, my reply was yes. I am only looking for a new family member(pet) and have no interest or knowledge in breeding. Now---while we are having this conversation, everybody else is picking out their pups (I thought I had already had my pup & was quit pleased with my decision!) She was always pleasant in conversation and asked me if I would NOT have him neutered - Now I'm a nervous wreck - I might lose my pup and by now just about everybody had picked their pup - I had stopped looking over 45 min. before! I told her I honestly had concerns about Not neutering, so she asked me if I would just hold off neutering him until he was one yr. old. I thought that I could be OK with that. I paid for him in full. Can the breeder do this to me or what? I really need some feedback! Thanks
Unless there are writen contracts she can not make you breed teh dog or force you to not neuter.
Honestly, if she wants the dog she should not place the dog. I feel that if you really want to keep a pup back you need to do so. I dislike people who attempt to rope innocent puppy buyers into raising their breeding stock.
Now, frankly, breeding a dog is a lot diffrent then having a dog unaltered hanging around. Some dogs so change in personality after being bred, both male and female.
It is not a simple venture that one takes and she is simply trying to find "homes" for her stud dogs to hang around in so she can use them at her convince and not have to keep them at home.
See many people are flattered and excited at reproducing their pet.
Sign no contract for breeding, make no verbal agreement and take your pup home.
Thanks IcyHound - I needed so much to hear that. I am not flattered or excited by any of this. It really has me upset! Any advice what I should do next Sat. when I go to pick my pup up- what if she wants me to sign something (I hope not). I am afraid that if I don't sign, she may hold on to my pup. By the way, she did not say that I would have sign anything - but I am worrying she might!
Pocono pup, I am sying this to be of help and know you are very excited and in love with your new puppy. DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING you are not comfortable with, even if it means you have to walk way from this deal. I know that can be hard and discouraging and painful, and believe me, I do feel for your situation. Now, what I would do is, talk to her, commnication can go a long way. and other options are available. if she decides not to sell you the pup because of your concerns. their is an "extraction" procedure. they can extract semen from the dog and keep it on ice so to speak. that is an option, i do not know if that is something you are comfortable with, but it is another road. but under no circumstances, do somethng you are not comfortable with. signing a contract or extraction.
You guys are great - To answer mafiaprincess - NO I have not signed anything. This pup was on the kitchen floor with ALL the other available pups! Why was he placed with all the other pups if he was"special"
seems if the breeder wanted to keep that pup she should have...tell her your pup is your pup and did you buy it full or limited registration...if full and you want to nueter...your choice...try to limit conversation with this lady...your pup will be happier neutered...good luck add... usually if the breeder gives you the dog on the premise that they can use it it is a differnt story...but you said you paid yours in full..so...no dice in my book...
***Edited By: huronbreeze on 7/18/2005 12:26:21 AM*** Reason: add
OK - I'll try to answer some of your questions- I am supposed to bring my pup home this coming up Sat. The breeder had her chosen two pups somewhere else- didn't even see them.. When all this started I was buying with a limited reg. - for the pup to be neutered. I have waited for months for this day to finally come. I lost my 8yr. old Golden (Emma) to Lymphoma several months ago(she was sick for months before that) Things were finally looking up - now this.
If I were in your position, I would get the pup and do what I want. If and when the day comes and she want to breed him just say he was starting to show interest in the neighborís dog, or was having some temperament and behavior issues associate with unneutered dog and you had to do what is best for your dog and your family. It is extremely unlikely sheíll do anything to you, and even more unlikely a judge will rule against you, especially if your vet will back you up. She just likes to keep her options open and have several future studs to pick from for free. It doesnít hurt to try. Iíll bet she does it often with most of the males and even females pups she sells. She canít have the cake and eat it too, and from what you are saying, I donít think she really expect it. She just tries her luck. Canít blame her for trying.
***Edited By: juno on 7/18/2005 3:40:09 AM*** Reason: sp
I agree with everyone here. If you haven't signed a contract to keep the dog intact for her, DON'T. Any breeding would be 2 years down the road, so she's asking you to care for "her stud" for her, train him and test him? I think not.
Did she ask to co-own the dog, will the registration be strictly in YOUR name? Once she has placed that puppy, he is yours to care of and make all decsions about health related issues, nutering being one of them.
Did she provide you with a contract, prior to mentioing the breeding? If so, read your copy carefully. There should be no "hidden" clauses in it. If the contract is clear and the pup is paid for, I agree, go pick him up, smile sweetly, make no committment (pretend you're a polotician..they do it all the time) and get the guy home. He's yours and yours alone to care for.
The contract SHOULD have her health guarentee to you and requirements for you as a responsible pet owner. Fpr example, part of my contract required obedience training while another provided a list of foods NOT to feed as well as proper feeding options.
Spay/Nuter was not only part of THAT contract, but for all pups with limited registations (7 out of 10, 1 of which I kept another I co-own) there was an additional spay/nuter contract requiring vet verification once it was completed.
Potential buyers whom I felt were apropriate homes were provided with an unsigned copy of the contract in advance along with my health guarantee. Any questions either of us had for the other were answered BEFORE anything was signed.
Thanks for the feedback pyrmom - The breeder said nothing about a co-ownership(I don't even know what that is) Going into this - I assumed I would be getting a limited reg. And thus far I have no contract - signed or unsigned! My fear is that next Sat. she will hit me with this unfamiliar stuff and if I refuse to go along with her she will not give me my pup. What would you do - walk away, dispute the situation, sign the papers?
I wish I had some "perfect" answer for you. I would call her and ask if she can fax or e-mail you a copy of the contract and health guarantee BEFORE this weekend. GO over both thoroughly.
If you're satisfied with both and there is no mention of keeping the dog intact, sign the contract make a copy and take it with you when you go to piick up your pup. Once you have the written contract in hand, that's it.
I still don't see how it is possible for a breeder to require someone to hold off on nutering in CASE she wants to use the pup 2 years down the road for stud! If she SHOULD bring it up again, smile sweetly, ask her if she is doing the helth certs necessary for proper breeding.
Then again, will she be sending the trainer to your home for show training? Is she going to schedule him for shows ONLY when it's convienient for you? I'm SURE she's willing to pay yur travel and lodging expenses for all of them as well.
After all, you don't want him off living with a trainer/handler and traveling around to shows for his CH, you want him for a full time companion!
Unless you sign a paper Saturday that says the dog is to remain un-neutered or intact until breeder receives a certain number of breedings, you are free to do what you want with your pup, if the papers are limited, she would have to reverse it later in order to use him anyway. I would think if this was the pick male and she was looking to keep the pick male she should have not made him available. He's already paid for correct?....she may be asking from curiosity because she got second guessing herself, maybe once you point out he is paid for and this was not mentioned before and that you prefer not to use him as stud, she will back off
She never mentioned Showing the pup. Would that be part of all this too? I really think she wants to breed him to make the money(not sure though) She does seem to care for her Goldens and I believe she tries to produce well rounded & beautiful Goldens. I think my pup would be just in CASE her first pick did not work out! You know the more I think about this the more pissed off I'm getting!
I agree with what everyone else already said. A respectable breeder would never do this! If you can, call and ask for a copy of the contract faxed/e-mailed to you beforehand so you can read it thoroughly. Even on Saturday, if you have to sign ANYTHING, make sure you READ it! Don't bother skimming, this lady sounds shady and you'll need to keep yourself safe. Please keep us updated as to what happened!
It may or may not include showing,,,,sounds like she is worried this one will turn out nicer, however most breeders will keep those ones longer to watch them and not sell them as early as the rest. Happens at least once to all of us, keep one, see the other one as it has gotten older....Darn, kept the wrong one...part of breeding....she trying to have her cake and eat it too....want my money for the pup, but keep it at my discretion also....doesnt seem right
This breeder has made her picks, BUT what do we not know abou the one she has chosen? Could she be HOPING that that other testicle descends, that the puppy does not mature oversize, that *whatever* thing does not go wrong in the particular dog's development, and wishes to keep one intact dog from the breeding for the particular pedigree? But in the best interest of the DOG, she is willing to let him go to a pet home where he will be loved and treasured, but wishes for the new owner to keep him intact *just in case* the other dog "goes off", so that she could have the possiblity of using the dog one or two times, to continue a line? Then the dog could be neutered. Or the dog could go off himself, be evaluated at a year and found to not be what the breeder desires to use, and then be neutered.
I have breeder friends that use this situation- you cannot keep infinite numbers of dogs, it isn't good for the dogs because they'd all be kennel dogs. It allows the dogs to have the benefit of loving homes but they can grow out and be evaluated and THEN a decision is made. The breeders are responsible for any breeding related costs (OFA and other testing). Usually the dogs are neutered or spayed, but sometimes you have one that turns out to be spectacular. This way you do get to use that dog.
I am getting a dog for my husband even, under this type of agreement. The dog is a hair oversize, but by the age of two or three sometimes the dogs settle back insize. We are keeping him intact, but not using him, until a later date. If he settles, we get a great dog, he can be shown and will win (trust me- he is spectacular) Otherwise, he is a pet, a wonderful pet, and *HE* gets a loving home. He doesn't get tossed out in a kennel to wait and see. I don't see how this is a big deal? So the dog has danglies between his legs- is this a problem?