Obviously for these folks "those danglies" are an issue, they were searching for a family pet, not to get involved with breeding issues, and having an intact males around that they will have to mintor around females on the street, at the park, at dog parks, etc The breeder simply should have discussed this with them Before she allowed them to pay in full for the dog! Then restrict that particular dog to a home that would be willing to do this, not take the money then change the rules...bad business move

Hope, if that had been the clearly stated agreement from the begining, no...I don't see where there would be a problem. It is not something I personally would ever enter into, but that's just me.

However as the purchaser of the pup she is not responsible for the feed, care and upkeep of the breeder's potential breeding stock out of the kindness of her heart.

I also question why there has been no contract, no health guarantee, nothing in the way of paperwork and this pup is being taken home at the end of this week. Again, personal opinion, but that would bother me. Think I would be asking why.

Well, my standpoint as a breeder is this- I get really miffed when you start seeing posts like, "Just take the dog and do what you want with it."

That is a good way to make enemys, to have NO relationship with the breeder of your dog.

If the person is uncomfortable with this idea, then they need to get a refund and just not get THAT dog.

Sorry, but I am a bit confused. Are you saying it is ethical for a breeder to sell the pup, accept the money, THEN at the last minute decide she wants the buyer to go against her desires and keep the dog intact, just in case she (the breeder) MAY want to use the dog for stud 2 years down the road in addition to the dog and bitch the breeder has already kept out of the litter?

If this were something discussed and agreed upon from the outset, fine. No argument. If the breeder had told her she was sorry, but had to offer her a different pup as she decided that one was going to a home where he will be kept intact as a possible stud, I could understand, but not the way this has been done.

Wow - I've missed alot - Thanks pyrmom for keeping my issue straight.(I was away this weekend-picking out the puppy and just now got home) Was there a post "Just take the dog & do what you want with it"? If there was I really don't think anybody on here meant anything harmful. I think it would mean you purchased the dog with no strings attached, now he is YOURS! As far as the relationship with the breeder - that should work BOTH ways - respect and honesty from eachother. In my case(I feel) I got hit with all of this blindsided. But maybe another breeder can really relate to my breeders situation.

Welcome back. Were you able to contact the breeder to ask about contracts, etc...?

Hopesheltie, I am a breeder as well and I TOTALLY DISAGREE with you! It's up to the breeder to hold back any pups that they think might work out for their breeding program. If the pup turns out to be good enough, great , if not thats just the way it goes, and the breeder sells the dog at THAT time because it didn't turn out to be what they wanted in a stud dog. The breeder ok'd these buyers as a good home and the buyers paid for the pup. It's not up to this new family to raise the pup so that it might be able to stud for the breeder in the future!! WOW, what are you thinking? Whats the big deal about having testicles? You own stud dogs I'm thinking as you are a breeder. My breeding studs are very different than a neutered male. They mark everything!! If a female is in heat they go crazy thinking about breeding all the time! These buyers want a calm family pet, NOT A STUD DOG, or the hassle of having to bring their dog over to the breeders when her females are ready to be bred and leave him there until it's done, or have to bring him to the vet for her to AI the females. These things that go along with breeding are a VERY big deal to a family that just wants a quality pet. If the pup she held back doesn't turn out she'll just have to wait for another litter and try again. period... Go pick up your paid for, new family pet and neuter him and enjoy him. Make sure you have a heath guarantee, and the contract you sign doesn't say anything about the breeder having rights to your dog. ( most contracts will not). Try not to be nervous when you go pick him up. The breeder should never have ask this of you unless it was discussed before you went to look at this pup! Your only obligation to this breeder is to give the pup a loving forever home and take good care of him.

I was simply giving a different veiwpoint. I am entitled to have my own opinion, just as you are entitled to have yours.

In the first post, the buyer said that the breeder "asked" if they would "consider" leaving the dog intact. After this, my understanding was, the buyer went ahead and paid for the dog. I did not understand the buyer as describing the breeder telling them that they had to leave the dog unaltered or not get the dog. If this was the case, personally I'd have red flags going up about the breeder and would not buy the puppy. I'd also have red flags and not be buying the puppy over health testing and such as Pyrmom brings up. Does this clear things up at all?

Pyrmom, jeanief, this was the point I was trying to make, it would have been different had she mentioned this up front, but instead sold them the pup as a family pet to be neutered, took their money, THEN called later and decided she wanted this new agreement, makes the buyers feel uneasy because they havent even picked their pup up yet! You take your litter picks and you take your chances, sometimes could kick yourself, but it happens. Stick with fellow breeders for these deals, not unsuspecting families.