I think you bring up a good point about Ethics. Here is my Code of Ethics, just fill in whatever your chosen breed maybe:
CODE OF ETHICS
First and foremost, I agree to protect and preserve the _______ Breed by employing Ethical & responsible practices on personal, social, and business levels.
I will emphasize good health, stable temperament and intelligence as well as appearance. Consistent with this policy, I shall breed discriminately and will place only upon good evidence of finding satisfactory homes for all puppies. I shall emphasize quality, not quantity.
I shall plan and implement a breeding program with the preservation and protection of the ______, kept foremost in mind and not for commercial purposes.
I shall conduct sales in a manner designed to promote maintenance of the dog’s health and well being and to provide reasonable protection for the buyer.
I shall conduct myself in a professional manner in all sales. I shall refuse to buy from or to sell to (knowingly), or to knowingly recommend breeders who do not conform to this Code of Ethics. I do "NOT" deal with wholesalers, BackYard Breeders, Puppy Mills (People who mass produce animals), people who abuse or neglect their animals, people who do not properly care for or treat their animals as pets first and formost, or retailers such as Pet Shops or animal testing facilities, & shall "NOT" provide any dogs or puppies for raffle purposes, or buy and sell in litter lots.
My breeding stock shall be free from disease or hereditary deformity The dog/puppy shall be in the best possible condition and health before it goes to a new home. None of my puppies will be sold at less than twelve (10) weeks of age. As far as possible it should be free from internal and external parasites and Fungus. I shall maintain a high standard of health and care, including adequate room for exercise, regular handling and grooming, clean and comfortable quarters, adequate ventilation and light, a balanced diet and clean water, regular inoculations and veterinary care, and love and affection.
Before selling any puppy, I shall honestly appraise the quality and potential of the puppy and shall inform the buyer as to the differences between pet, breeder and show quality. And will spay/neuter all pet quality before leaving me!
All litters and puppies of a litter will be registered with the registering body with which I am affiliated with in DogFancy. i.e. AKC
I Shall Furnish the new owner with details of diet, and any information that will ensure the dog/puppy fits into its new environment with minimum stress. And if a problem arises I will be there to answer any questions and will have a permanent place in each puppies lives. If for any reason the puppy cannot stay with it's new owners I will take it back.
I Ensure that the purchaser of a stud male is made fully aware of the care, responsibility and the standard of facilities required to keep such a dog. Not permit matings between registered and unregistered or rescued animals.
I shall behave at all times in a manner that will reflect credit upon myself, my chosen breed of dog, and my registering body. I agree to abide by the rules and customs that govern each show, whether I am a spectator or an exhibitor. I shall view success as a concern "secondary" to the health and well being of the dog and to my relationship with purchasers and others among the dog fancy.
Brookann, the threads with your name and any personal information were removed by me as soon as I saw them. I tried editing out personal information AND personal insults, but there were two posters duking it out on the forum as fast as I could edit one post, there were two or theree posted right behind it.
Having said that, let's NOT start all of this up again in reverse.
NO personal information (not that your user name isn't a dead give away or anything), NO personal attacks and I will not edit the posts or delte the thread. I can't speak for the other mods, but I (for one) will NOT allow the same thing to develope again.
***Edited By: pyrmom on 7/27/2005 8:52:26 AM*** Reason: X
I do have to say that there are buyers out there trying to scam breeders--and I am not talking about the "money order overage" scam. These buyers have read all the things they see written about a good breeder and what kind of home a good breeder wants for their dogs. They know all the right answers--BUT they are usually trying to get a breedable dog for as cheap as they can and with no contracts. Some start by saying they want a show dog, and then go on and on about how understanding they are if the dog never "measures up" to finishing and how they will be willing to keep it anyway as a pet. After being rejected by good breeders, some buyers will have a family member or friend try to get one of the dogs for them. (I have had the AMISH try this one on me--did not work). We have had so many bad buyer contacts, that I wrote a page on ETHICAL BUYERS for my site. After reading this board for many months, I have concluded that a number of the people who complained about being scammed were just as bad as the breeder--they wanted to buy breeding dogs (not pets) and pay little.
Brookann Kennels, let me try to sum up what you have said.
If the buyer gets a puppy with bad genetics, it's the buyers fault for not checking out the breeder more thoroughly? I see you have kept repeating this formula so I will call you on it.
You keep stressing the fact that the buyer needs to check out the breeder, as if this is some saving grace for the breeder. ie; anything wrong? Must be the buyer didn't do their homework.
This is basically what you have continued to repeat through this entire thread. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to point two dogs at one another, then sell the offspring for a profit. I suggest you try to use at least a dictionary, if not a 7th grade grammar text book, if you intend to come off as credible. Sorry but all your posts make me wince from the spelling alone.
Hi Prymom, Yes, you can use it anyway you like. I once had extra parts in there other than those, but now I can't remember what they were. LOL. I haven't had a litter in so long that I'm rusty on the things I shared on my website.
Would you all like to see my Questionnaire as well?
I'll post it to the thread "Contracts and Guarentees." if anyone is interested. I loved my Questionnaire best. :-)
***Ash I completely agree. I'm not quite following that stream of logic either I firmly believe that in the situation where a breeder is selling a dog, cat, bird, etc. that there is more responsibility firmly planted on the breeder's shoulders. And at some point the breeder has to step up to the plate and take that responsibility, not shirk it. I mean, the buyer can only do so much, if they get a genetic nightmare that is prone to health, physical and emotional problems, then that is the breeders fault plain and simple! It is the breeders responsibility to DO ALL THE homework on the dogs they have, NOT THE BUYER and for them to do all the pedigree research, find out if they are breeding quality or not (not just breeding pet standard dogs), TESTING on the parent dogs, eyes, hearts, hips, livers (i guess), etc. And a million other things to making a happy and healthy litter and if the BREEDER doesn't do all those then they are getting what they deserve in my opinion! Anyone can have or get 2 dogs, papered or not, of the same breed, breed them and have puppies and claim to the general unsuspecting public that they are excellent quality from champion bloodlines (even though there is only 1 champion in 4 generations) and then in turn sell them for money. How is the general pet buyer in the public to know any difference that they are breeding garbage and the breeders can 'name drop" all they want on a pedigree, but any Joe Blow could get online and see what are the big names and do it? And just because a dog is AKC or papered DOES NOT make it breeding quality or show quality. In nature, anything can probably be bred, but most of the time it shouldn't be bred! There is a difference! And when it is, as said above, it is the breeders responsibility to ascertain it is the best breeding choice possible.
Not to mention the responsibility for the rest of the dog or puppies lives that the breeder has to take too!
******I think, however, after reading BK's last post to this thread that she was looking for more of a pat on the back or get some "way to go's" in her corner and not really interested in the topic itself. Why is it I feel like I'm a kindergarden teacher trying to pound this in her or his brain?
((previous poster wrote: ((((I will say thatAfter reading this board for many months, I have concluded that a number of the people who complained about being scammed were just as bad as the breeder--they wanted to buy breeding dogs (not pets) and pay little. ))))))) ***** Granted I haven't read everything on here on these subject matters, but what I have read I did not get that impression at all. I felt like these people, the ones I read about, were just trying to get what was promised to them fullfilled and it hadn't been to that point. These breeders sold a product, it was THEIR decision whether to sell a dog with Full breeding rights or not and for either show, breeding, or pet quality. Are you telling me that a show dog is as cheap as a pet and cheaper than a breeder quality? Gosh, it has been a long time since I last showed or bought show quality. Wheww...... It is the breeders responsibility to alter PETS or make darn sure they are before rolling out breeding papers if they are sold as PETS only. I'd say that is the breeder's fault if she/he didn't do that, not the pet buyer.
Some tips that can be used for either a breeder or buyer, I supoose if you want to interchange the words:
It is important for you to do your research, know how to interview a breeder and what answers you are looking for. Unethical breeders can be very tricky. We want you to have enough information to make an informed decision. Remember that the final decision is up to you. Some advice that you may want to consider.
*A breeder's presence on a list or a web site does NOT mean they are an ethical breeder.
*If any breeder tells you that their lines are free of problems or genetic diseases or that problems only show up in dogs from other breeds, lines or countries, RUN do not walk away from them. They are not being truthful with you. Any breeder who is honest and has bred for any amount of time will tell you that problems can and do arise even with the best breeders. All breeds and lines have some sort of flaw at some point. Trust the ones who are honest with you and will tell you how they work within their breeding program to eliminate these problems. They are constantly testing, reassessing, studying, showing and learning as much as they can about the breed. And they can PROVE it to you. Don't just take their word, ask for proof! They will honestly talk about the problems in their lines as well as brag about the successes.
*Length of time that a breeder has been breeding means nothing. Other factors are more important such as how they breed, health testing that is done and ethical practices of the breeder.
*Know what a buncher is, a backyard breeder, a broker, a puppy mill etc. A buncher and a broker sell dogs for breeders. Ethical breeders do not sell their dogs this way. Nor do they sell to pet shops, road side sales, ad papers or at flea markets. Why? An ethical breeder wants to meet you personally. They want to interview you as well as expect that you will want to interview them. They feel responsible for the life they have created. And they will most likely NOT sell you a dog just through a web site or just by exchanging email. They do not entrust this big responsibility to someone else. Most likely they will want to interview you more perhaps over the phone or with a face to face interview if possible. To educate yourself as to what brokers and puppy mills are and how they operate, investigate this web site.
*Health certificates. Any vet can write a health certificate for a dog. This only means that the dog was healthy in a more outward exam when it was at the vet's office. This does not mean that the dog has been tested for genetic defects nor the breeding stock used to produce this dog. With any breed of dog, it is important to obtain PROOF that the breeding stock that produced this dog has been tested by BOARD CERTIFIED specialists. This means a BOARD CERTIFIED cardiologist and a BOARD CERTIFIED veterinary Ophthalmologist. Some breeders who do not have access to a Board Certified Cardiologist may have their dogs undergo ultrasounds to check for heart defects. Proof of these tests may be obtained as well. Breeding stock should be tested for hips ( certification from the OFA), eyes (certification from CERF), hearts (Board Certified Cardiologist), patellae and free from epilepsy. Make sure you get copies of these BEFORE you buy. Do not accept a simple vet certificate with a promise of a 90 day money back guarantee. Nor a 1 year guarantee. A lot of Genetic defects rarely shows up in a dog before the age of two. You are looking for a breeder who will take back that dog for any reason at any time. FOREVER! And they will want to know about any problems that you are having with your dog, physically and behaviorally.
*Championships in a pedigree mean nothing all by themselves. This is a biggie. You see breeders advertising all the time the famed "Champion Bloodlines", but what does that really mean? If that means that the champions are 2 or 3 generations back, it really means little to nothing! Many of the dogs rescued from puppy mills have champions in their pedigrees somewhere and if you look hard enough. Unscrupulous breeders do manage to get their hands on some very nicely pedigreed dogs.
*Papers. Are they worth anything? Know who the reputable registries are. Any dog can have papers. Just because a dog has papers doesn't mean it is better quality or healthier or better than any other dog.
*References. Again, this in itself means nothing. It could be anyone working with the mill or breeder being paid to tell you what you want to hear. Or it could be someone with a dog from them that hasn't become ill or died yet. Don't rely on what someone else tells you. Do your OWN homework. Do ask for vet references and proof from a vet about testing and health on each dog! If they don't want to give it to you RUN FAST!
*Finding a good breeder and your dog or puppy is a time consuming process. It requires patience. Good breeders usually have a waiting list. They cannot produce a puppy for you within 48 hours. And if you see any certain breeders advertising all the time or year round in local papers, Sell ads, PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM THEM. They are breeding way too much. Most Responsible and ethical breeders only have 1 or 2 litters per year reguardless of how many female dogs they have. Sometimes it may take you months or a year to find the right puppy. Remember, this will become a member of your family possibly as long as 15 years if you are lucky. Veterinary costs for hip, eye, heart and patella problems are VERY expensive. It is not like buying a pair of shoes. If you do not have the patience to make sure you are dealing with an ethical breeder please do the breed a favor and buy a gerbil. This is not the time to "bargain hunt". There are plenty of unethical breeders out there that will be happy to take advantage of people who are looking for a puppy "right now" or who are looking for a "bargain".
Does this mean that every breeder you meet is unethical? NO! There are genuinely ethical and helpful breeders that will contact you and help you find a puppy if you ask. After all, they can't keep every one that they breed. But learn how to separate the "wheat from the chaff". We hope that we have given you some tools to do so.
Pixiedust, I completely agree that there can be shady buyers as well. I guess what I meant by my post is that, if a buyer purchases a faulty puppy, it should be in their rights as a consumer to have the puppy replaced because they are paying money for the puppy. I'm not talking about buying a puppy that they thought was only going to get 5 pounds and got 10 or anything like that. I mean genetic defects or diseases. Because it just *seems* like the OP is saying that, if a buyer gets a faulty dog, that it's their fault, not the breeders. But I think it's the responsibility of the breeder to ensure that the buyer is getting a dog free of genetic defects and diseases. And if they can't guarantee that, they either shouldn't be breeding, or they should in the very least disclose this information to the buyer. That way, if the buyer doesn't care and still wants the puppy then it is on their shoulders at that point. I think it's shady when a breeder can just take someone's money and give them a puppy, and when the buyer comes back and says that the puppy has parvo, for the breeder to just brush them off. If they truly are a good breeder, they will stand by the quality of their puppy and do whatever it takes to ensure that the buyer gets a quality 'product' (dog). I just meant in the consumer/seller world, you can't get away with selling the public faulty items and stay in business. It should be the same with puppies, because in essence, being a breeder is like a business. Especially if you are just breeding 'pet quality' dogs that have no prospect of show.
I say it's purely up to the breeder. Don't sell your puppies really cheap, nor extremely expensive is a big #1 because who knows who will end up with a "cheap, or free puppy" The next thing is the BREEDER is the one who decides where and who the puppies go to. Check out their houses, meet the family, make contracts saying certain things you can/cannot do with the dog.
It is the responsibility of the buyer to check out the breeder, but some do not, and this cannot be controlled, however, it all falls back on the breeder anyway. As the breeder, you should offer any information on yourself and your practices so as to inform the buyer about yourself even if they dont ask. It is up to you, the breeder to ask questions and be sure they have done their homework, know how to care for a dog, etc. Not all buyers are perfect and knowledgeable, that is where the breeder comes in to educate and ensure they are a suitable home, and if they dont fit the bill, you dont sell.
Let's make this simple... The breeder has the FINAL say on where that puppy goes/who it's sold to, so infact it's up to the breeder to FULLY investigate where that pup is going, if one cares.
The responsibilty of the breeder is to sell the dog to the best possible home, remember you have FINAL say. If I were a breeder I personally wouldn't sell to someone I couldn't meet, same as my dog adoptions I don't ship dogs and I only adopt to people I can meet. If I can't meet you and visit your home, I won't adopt to you.
For those that ship out of area, you have ZERO control what happens to your pup that you sold, to me it wouldn't be worth the sale. The other part of it is remember contracts are basically paper, if you sell a dog out of area, they don't really have to spay or neuter, they can go on breeding, so then you are contributing to the pet over population problem on top of selling your dog to a "bad owner"
Sorry Brookann Kennels I don't think you can lame blame on anyone but yourself as you have control of the situation when it comes to selling your pups.
Thank you I am not trying trying to start up any thing.This is a good topic.I feel breeders, good decent breeders need a little more credit. I agree as I said before there are so many people done wrong when buying a pet. I just wanted to bring out what a good decent breeder go threw with bad buyers just as another person talked about on this topic.
if people would stick to the topic instead of putting down others it would be a good site. If you fell you need to tak me off that is fine. I agree I am not the best speller but there are far more inportant things . No one is perfect.
after reading all of this I must give my 2 cents... I beeed GSD and Mini schnauzers. I have sold them online and have found some fantastic buyers...no..i didnt let just anyone with cash get my pets...They mean the world to me..ive helped them into the world and have loved and played with them each step of there lives...I have sold some to people who frequent this site..and i believe they would have said if i was anythng other then on the up and up. I sell only on limited registration...I get my pups all vet checked...and offer a contract and guarentees on health. I did have a pup with a heart murmer..and told the buyer...i didnt wait till their vet found it..and they get all steamed at me..i told them first..and asked how they wanted to handle it..i was just as tore up as they were..and ironically...they took the same pup..so..honesty is the best policy...I have never had a person attack me or my breeding practices on here or any other furom. I do the very best i can...and hope to improve on this to be even better. If it ever stops being about the pups ill stop doing it all together...I beleive the pups depend on me to find the very best place for them...i find out if they want pet, show or breeding upfront..so spay neuter or limited registration is no suprise...I give email and phone updates daily if the buyers want it..and i usually give weekly pictures...but thats just how i do things...i want the buyers excited and involved...i want this to be the best time in there lives...next to having children that is...but to many puppies are the next best thing to children...so i feel obligated to do the right thing for all involved...besides...i have to be able to look myself in the mirror...