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pizisu, pyrmom, sabine6231

AKC vs. CKC registration
what's the difference...
Found [74] Posts :: Page 2 of 4
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Posted: 1:53:24 PM 8/12/2005


Sorry changing the topic just a little, but :


Why would people leave AKC just because PAWS goes though.


Isn't the law going to affect everyone no matter who you are registered with or even registered at all (designer mutts).


Posted: 2:01:40 PM 8/12/2005
Probably because the AKC supports it and no one else does.

Holidayblitz, there's no rules for a conformation championship.
Posted: 2:47:51 PM 8/12/2005
When I called them and feel free if you want call them and ask they said that if a dog does win a show event (sorry I am not into shows and do not know the technical names) they will get a ch in front of their name like AKC does. They also told me that they do place 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. They told me to look at that site and when I did it did not just say for fun it did say you have to get these many points to win. So they do use points. I am not into all the shows and points and stuff so I am not sure if it is the exact same as AKC's my point is though that if your dog wins a show (and maybe shows are not listed on the link I gave you, but I know they have them) they will get a ch in front of their name. I know that they do get awards for the agility and stuff, but I am not sure if that puts a ch in front of their name or not since I am not into shows and agility and stuff. You would have to call them to find out. I just wanted to be sure that there is a way for your dog to win awards and have a champion title like AKC and as far as they told me they do give out that title and it will show on the pedigree.

***Edited By: holidayzbliss on 8/12/2005 2:49:52 PM***
Reason: ...
Posted: 3:34:42 PM 8/12/2005
But thats what doens't matter to me. You could go find a lab mix that looks like a lab and have a ch in front of his name. That makes it even more ridicioulus(sp) to me.
Posted: 4:16:00 PM 8/12/2005
The main reason why many consider them a bad registry is this policy.

http://www.continentalkennelclub.com/Registration.aspx#CanineRegistrations

"2.Dogs over 6 months of age which have no previous Registration history may be registered by providing 2 witness signatures attesting to the purebred status of the dog along with 3 photos (front,left and right) of the dog to confirm it is ‘of proper breed type’ as defined by our current CKC Registration Rules and Regulations. "

This mean that a mix breed that look like a pure breed can be registered as a pure bred and pollute the gene pool of other purebreds if it is bred.
Posted: 4:24:32 PM 8/12/2005
I think people are saying that breeders will leave AKC, because think about it, who will be reporting to the USDA if someone is having more than 7 litter registering a year?? Maybe the only registry supporting it? hmmm. I also suspect that a lot of people will not be registering smaller litters if they are approaching the magic numbers. They will also probably be putting dogs in other peoples names or placing them with other people to avoid inspection. I normally have 1-3 litters per year, but I have just quit my job in January to do this full time and I hope if I am lucky I will have near 7, and I don't want to have someone come IN MY HOME and start telling me how things will be. Sorry if I sound crabby but I have been up with premie pug puppies feeding them every 1-2 hours for the past 6 days, and wouldn't have it any other way, than them in my bedroom.
Posted: 4:48:03 PM 8/12/2005
Most people are not against the numbers in the PAWS bill so much they are against the excessive regulation that many are not aware of. If you sell ONE dog that is not bred on your property, you must get a dealer's license. Now, what comes with that license? What restrictions on your home and dogs go with that? It becomes very confusing. And worse--the bill allows dogs to be taken BEFORE they get permission from Legal authorities. Their excuse for this--the legal authorities are already too busy! (sorry the proper words escape me at the moment--read many of the site about PAWS and you will see how they want to run over the 4th Amendment against search and seizure of private property).

***Edited By: PixiedustPapillons on 8/12/2005 4:59:19 PM***
Reason: SPELLING
Posted: 4:57:27 PM 8/12/2005
I would not want to buy a breeding/show dog with CKC simply because they do not set a difference between dogs they register WITH a pedigree and dogs they register simply on the word of the owner. But there are lots of other registries that are just as good or better than AKC--UKC and APRI for example. And before you jump on me for APRI, take time to see their requirements for registry. And pet mills and BYB's use AKC just as much as the other registries.
After reseraching PAWS, I found out so many OTHER things about AKC that I am sick and tired of them. SO much the average person does not know.
I have several dogs that I will finish in AKC, but after that I am going with other registries no matter what happens with PAWS.
Posted: 4:58:08 PM 8/12/2005
Not to make this another PAWS thread, but it is really scary that when I looked on the USDA link that someone posted, I could find the fees for licenses and such, but not the actual regulations concerning the treatment, restrictions and such. I dont even know if they have been firmly written yet. Does that mean that you can't ever sell adults that don't work out in your breeding program without a dealer license?
My point was maybe other registries such as CKC, UKC ect... may not report to the USDA how many litter you are having unless they are forced legally (which wouldn't suprise me). Unlike AKC who seems all to happy to provide the info to the USDA. I don't have anything to hide, I just don't want more fees and people coming in my home where my dogs are kept and telling me what to do or not to do. If my dogs were being poorly cared for they are in plain sight of 2 major roads and we have a very strict animal control...as most places do, which is why this is b@#$ s#$#%.
Posted: 5:02:42 PM 8/12/2005
like i said, I register all my dogs with akc and ckc. but i hope to no longer have to deal with akc in the future. I hope more people will realize that there are other registries other than the akc. but i do agree that they should not allow a pic as proof.
Posted: 5:06:18 PM 8/12/2005
I also like APRI. I use them also.

withee
I agree with you I am hoping that soon the picture and witness thing will stop. I have heard that they will be closing it in the next year or so. That is what a breeder friend told me. Once they close it I think then people would not be so against them.

***Edited By: holidayzbliss on 8/12/2005 5:08:50 PM***
Reason: ...
Posted: 5:11:48 PM 8/12/2005
Another problem with PAWS is the timning of inspections. Most reputable breeders do not live off the money from selling pups--so they have outside jobs. They cannot be home all day and be available for USDA inspections.
Most small breeders do not have room for a second kitchen for dog food and shots. And if you exceed the number just once (what if your large breed dog decides to bless you with more pups than expected?) will you need a license every year after that no matter how many dogs you do NOT raise?
And if AKC tries to get contracts to inspect breeders who do NOT use them--what kind of harassement might follow to get them back to AKC? And that has been openly claimed by AKC--they hope to force other breeders BACK to AKC. But what if PETA gets inspection contracts?
And what if you have just 2 small litters-BUT sell those dogs as BREEDING (meaning show)--will you need a USDA license? Just because you did not sell them as pets only?
And you ask"how would anyone know". Simple. ALL AKC litter papers will come with automatic LIMITEd marked and you will have to mark SHOW/Breeding. This was discussed by a breeder who called AKC when she saw the LIMITED box already grayed in --and the AKC person said she was just as confused by this. SO much so wrong.
Posted: 5:29:08 PM 8/12/2005
I am confused with this act now on one thing. I have seen people write that they wont be able to let males and females in the same kennel together. (home) well my friend is USDA lic and she has 3 females each with 1 male. She is also AKC. Are you saying they will take that away she wont be able to have a male with her females? She gets inspected by USDA and they have no problem with it.
Posted: 7:54:33 PM 8/12/2005
If you sell ONE dog that is not bred on your property, you must get a dealer's license.


How can they even inforce that. I mean if my neighbor buys a dog and then gets transfered out of state or over seas and can't take the dog with him.

His he going to have to get a dealers license before he can sell the dog.

Sounds like a lot more dogs are going to the Pound or are going to be given away for free.


Then according to this it sounds like a lot of you are breaking the law with the USDA anyway.

Current enforcement relies heavily on voluntary compliance and will continue to do so. Currently, the USDA is required to license any breeder who sells dogs at wholesale and maintains more than three breeding females (whether or not they are actually bred). If the USDA suspects that someone is evading this requirement, it may investigate and take appropriate action.

You all seem to think you only need to be licensed with them if you sell to brokers or pet stores.

But it says any breeder who maintains more than three breeding females (whether or not they are actually bred).

Now our USDA office told me that we only had to get a licence is we had over two litters in a year or over I think 24 puppies or maybe it was 26, but it is around that number.

I can't find my breeders application right now. I know its here somewhere though.

So maybe more of you need to check with your local offices and find out it you need to register with them or not.
Posted: 1:19:59 PM 8/13/2005
hey Langniappe, where do you find those usda forms? thanks

Posted: 1:54:49 PM 8/13/2005
""Currently, the USDA is required to license any breeder who sells dogs at wholesale""
That is the key difference in PAWS-- hobby breeders who did not sell to brokers or pet stores were exempt. DDAL even sued to get USDA to go after hobby breeders and the Supreme Court slapped DDAL down. I don't have a link but many of the anti-PAWS sites have some information about that.
Posted: 3:10:30 PM 8/13/2005


Withee which forms are you talking about?


If your talking about the USDA application forms then I just called my local human society and asked about if I needed a breeders license and they gave me the number to the local USDA office.

Then I called there and talked to them and they sent the application out to me with the kennel regulations and the application.


The other thing I got from the AKC website. On the main page there is a box on PAWS. Then you go to the Q&A area. Then go to general questions and the info is there.

I think the questions is about how will they know if you need to be regulated or not or something along those lines.

Posted: 4:44:33 PM 8/13/2005
thanks Langniappe
Posted: 9:51:31 PM 8/15/2005
The CKC is not a Canadian club. It is based in Walker, LA
Posted: 10:07:53 PM 8/15/2005
The actual CKC is the Canadian Kennel Club and in Canada....

The ContKC chose the abrevisation for confusion to make it seem like they were more reputable than they are.
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Found [74] Posts :: Page 2 of 4
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