Actually I do not have a problem with a mutt or a purebreed. I have a problem with 75% to 80% of the breeders out there weather they are breeding a specific breed or a designer.
I do not feel all dogs should be breed no matter what it is. Yes I do have pure breed Dobermans and yes I am planning on possibly breeding them, however, I purchased a specific female from a specific line and a specific male from a specific line because I, my trainer, my handler and my two original breeders all feel these two would inhance both lines. I did hunt down specific dogs and paid top dollar for both because I had a purpose. Also I do not plan on breeding them until my female is 3 years old as dobermans can take that long to fully mature. They will both be campions and they will both be tested to make sure they are breeding candidates.
With all that said, if the breeders of designer dogs or any other mutt for that matter puts that much into what thay are breeding and not just breeding two dogs for profit then I have no problem with them breeding either. But I don't believe they are as a matter of fact I don't believe most pure breed breeders are either.
I just wanted to add...first, I love all dogs too and yes there are bad breeders for both purebred and mixes. But like people keep saying over and over again is you find more bad breeders with mixes because they ARE doing is for the money, they usually don't do healthy tests, they think that would be so cute, let's see what happens if we mix these two breeds, etc.
PLEASE READ MY TRUE STORY BELOW-
I'm not against mixed breeds as we ALL have tried to say but the 'BREEDERS'. Most of my dogs have been mixed breeds...some from shelters, some from 'breeders' but I learned my lesson the hard way when I bought from a 'breeder'.
This 'breeder' was actually a friend (sort of) of mine. I got this dog when I was 9-years-old BEFORE I knew better. She had a purebred Lhasa Apso, female named Belle. Belle had problems...ear infections, allergies, bad temperament around other dogs.
She bred Belle with a purebred Shih Tzu, male named Baby. This resulted in Shih Tzu/Lhasa Apso mix puppies (very cute but that doesn't matter).
I was there when the parents bred, while Belle was pregnant, when she whelped her puppies, and up until they were 8-weeks-old. I picked out my puppy...he was black/white, fluffy, and fun. I named him Trooper. He was my best friend and kind of like my child.
When Trooper was 1-year-old, he developed allergies/ear infections, he took a pill everyday and had his ears cleaned with medicated ear cleaner...a little after that he stopped getting along with other dogs and was quite viscious towards them (despite my proper socialization and neutering him at 6 months)...he was nice to me but sometimes was a biter...he became 4-years-old and I noticed some blood on his hair around his private area, I got a urine sample and took him to the vet, they tested it and did an x-ray, it showed he had a bladder stone, we had to do an expensive surgery on him, then he seemed to do better after the surgery so we went on with our lives...a few months later he started getting sick again, we tried pills, he got better...then a little while later he got sick again then we tried changing food, didn't help at all...he got sick again and again, we tried everything...I didn't want him to die so I kept trying everything even though he just got worse and was starting to suffer...when he was 6-years-old he was in really bad shape, he started to go into Kidney failure, he was bloated, was in pain all the time, lost a lot of weight, was literally losing his mind, and wasn't happy anymore, NOTHING was working to make him better...I (at the time 15-year-old girl) had to make the hard desicion to put my best friend to sleep so he wouldn's suffer anymore.
Trooper was 6-years-old when he died and I lost my best friend because an irresponsible person bred the dogs (Lhasa Apso and Shih Tzu), she called them Lhasa Shihs for 'fun'. I did everything in my power to keep my boy healthy and happy but because this person didn't do any health testing or looking at temperaments (instead of thinking these pups will be cute), my little boy died at a young age and suffered. Shih Tzus and Lhasa Apsos can easily live 15 years but Trooper lived to be 6-years-old.
I still cry about it sometimes because I don't think I'll ever get over it. I still look at pictures of him and me, I keep them in my bedroom. Maybe I'll post pictures of him on Dogster so you can see him. He was my little boy, my best friend, my protecter, he was like my son. But he's gone because of irresponsible breeding!
So if anyone believes in that 'hybred vigor' cr*p, then you need to look around and see what really happens when you put two dogs (whether pure or mix) together for them to breed. It about GENETICS not whether they're purebred, mixed breed, cute, big, small, shed, don't shed, etc. That is why health testing is so important and looking at the parents temperament (not looks).
That's all I wanted to say about his topic.
***Edited By: lovekelsey on 8/24/2005 6:01:08 PM*** Reason: fix
With all that said, if the breeders of designer dogs or any other mutt for that matter puts that much into what thay are breeding and not just breeding two dogs for profit then I have no problem with them breeding either. But I don't believe they are as a matter of fact I don't believe most pure breed breeders are either. MY POINT THANK YOU ... I ONLY MEANT IF THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE AND DO ALL THE HEALTH CHECKS, TESTING AND SO ON ... THEN WHY NOT I SAID MAKE BELIEVE THEY ARE ETHICAL .. IF YOU CAN'T DO THAT THEN THERE IS NO MUCH I CAN DO .... IT WAS A QUESTION I ASKED BECAUSE I TRULY WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS WRONG WITH DESIGNER MUTTS ... IF IT'S THE BREEDER YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THEN CHANGE THE BREEDERS ... EDUCATE THEM ...ENCOURAGE THEM TO TEST THEIR ANIMALS THAT'S ALL FOLK S... THAT'S MY POINT
You asked why we didn't like mutt breeders..the truth is they aren't educated..we gave you reasons why we didn't like mutt breeders.. Your question is irrelevant, there is no such thing as a good mutt breeder as of today..IF there was..IF they did it the right way and not for money only and ect and ect and ect and ect..then MAYBE...oh who am I kidding that will never happen..
5 pages! I honestly cant believe people are really falling for Knowitall's crap.
Lord knows there was already plenty of these threads here, and she has had the question answered by all many many times. She simply responds repeating everything she has already said over and over again with nothing new.
She can not be pleased, everyone is going to have a different opinion....deal with it, that is the point of a "discussion" forum. Knowitall grow up, move on to another topic, no one is ever going to 100% agree with each other. Shut the caps off, and think of another topic.
THIS IS WHAT CODIESMOM POSTED .... THIS IS MY POINT
I would suggest that you research all the breeds involved in producing these breeds and decide for your self. Do some research, a lot of research every dog within a purebred or mix breed is different. If you can visit a shelter and look around you may find a great pup or older dog. Take time selecting your pup, our Cody came from a litter of 4 males and it took my husband, my mother and myself 2-1/2 hours to pick him out! He is a Bichon Frise/Westie mix or a designer dog (which I never heard of before getting on this forum) I got Cody because I had researched both breeds and decided that either one was a good match for our family and when I saw this ad in our newspaper re: Bichon Frise/Westie mix pups for sale deceided to go see them. Well, none of us could resist, they were adorable and 2-1/2 hours later we had a new pup. Good luck and making up your minds.
Your a reputable breeder, so you do all the health testing, your familiar with the animals back ground and family history (Family tree) Your breeding for a standard, to produce show puppies to show and improve the breed. Puppies that are produced that are not show quality, are sold to good homes with breeding contracts. And there is usually a relationship with the breeder for many years. Threy are breeding to produce show puppies, not pet quality. These breeders spend alot of money on this. Alot more then the monies collected for pet quality puppies. They frequent oh so many shows getting the points for each dog to prove they are worth breeding. They don't breeding anything just because they have cute ears or something. Temperment of the animal is taken into consideration as well. For example a female with behavioral problems or is timid, should never be bred for these traits can and will be passed to the offspring, and sometimes is worse in the pups. I know breeders that spend hundreds for educational seminars to educate themselves on dog behavior, which is crucial, to the future of their puppies. Many take in rescue animals that do not have anything to do with their lines. But mostly puppy mill dogs with no homes. Again its about the love of the dog and breed, not the money. BYB=Back yard breeders, or say Greeders. These people don't take anything into consideration, like behavior or health issues. This is a money issue. (The dogs don't have to be pure bred, it doesn't matter) If you have 2 dogs that are different breeds, your only breeding for the money, becuase there is no other reason why? If people didn't want them, you won't make any money, right. Not to pick on the Shih poo, but most of them look different from one another. They basically are shih tzus with mabe a wave, if your lucky. Why not just pick out a shih tzu. Shih poos do shed, mabe not as much as some. But they will need alot of grooming. Theres Nothing more predictable then a matted shih poo. Also any breed of dog can have a behavioral issue. I've been bitten by more small dogs then any breed of dogs. Most of the dogs in the shelters are larger and are there mostly because of behavioral issues, not just because they are big. In conclusion..I once had this woman come into the clinic with her little shih poo puppy she got from a pet store (To me, BYB and pet stores are out for the same goals..money) Anyways, she claimed she got the puppy from a well known pet store, and that she rescued it from the terrible conditions. She was clearly proud of her heroic story. But Lets look at this story in a different light....When you rescued that puppy from the pet store, you gave the store money to go out and get more puppies, to fill up that cage that you emptied. If the general public didn't buy from byb's and pet stores, they wouldn't be in buisiness, and mabe the standards would improve and people would have more respect for living things.
And what would happen to those puppies in the pet stores if nobody bought them?
They would be either PTS, given away, or put in shelters. And the pet stores would quit selling dogs, and the giant puppy mills that the pet stores purchase them from would no longer have an income, nor reason to do the atrocities that they do to the poor animals. Millions of animals would be saved a life of misery.
***Edited By: shinyblackpit on 8/25/2005 12:27:02 AM*** Reason: asdfasdf
i don't have time to read the entire thread right now, so after 5 pages my opinion probably has already been said, but i don't hate designer mutts. i don't like the idea of breeding two dogs to make a mix mutt and selling it for lots of money. especially when there are so many mixes in shelters. i don't think designer mutt breeders test for health and genetics like they should. not good. mainly it's the cost and the lack of good breeding practices. of course this happens with purebreds too. so it's not the dogs, it's the process.
dogknowitall...i personally think all pups are cute...mixes and purebreds...I breed GSD's and occassionally mini schnauzers...i see the cutest poo pups posed all the time...and my heart yearns for cute fluffy pups...but I dont want one...I have no problem with the dog itself...mainly with the puppy mills making them...most are not as you keep insisting "repurable breeders" no way a maltipoo should cost 1000 and in some case more...most dont start with good specimes to begin with...sure I know your question was hypothetical...but thats just it...it isnt what happens in the majority of cases...I think small fuzzy dogs are cool...I have a friend with a shi/poodle...and she is a character...but just like i dont personally want a mastif...i dont personally want a poo mix...or at least right now in my life...i dont think any one here is against mixes...most embrase them as a matter of fact...
I think that animals in the pound need saving.Period.And Get your point out dont make this complicated! Shihpoos are designer mutts, yes. Many mixes and purebreeds are in the shelter. If you dont want a "big ugly mutt" then dont get one there are many smaller dogs in the shelter.
(your first few posts..you made yourself sound like you only care about looks and grooming,all that jazz)
P.S. if this gets out of hand pyrmom will have to delete this thread. please keep it in hands reach. And no caps.
i think the easiest way to end this mess is by one of the moderators deleting the thread because there is a no "caps" rule and DogKnowItAll has repeatedly broken this rule. please just delete this thread and let it be over with
Give it up folks. This user has at LEAST 4 personas...dogknowitall, dullwhitepit, ilovemydane and andyandjanw. Waste of time, energy and effort to reply to any of these threads. It would be far simpler if this one just chose the user name of troll1, then 2 then 3 for each persona. Would make avoiding uselesss topics much easier.
***Edited By: pyrmom on 8/25/2005 5:38:00 PM*** Reason: xx
I love "designer dogs".You dont have to pay hundreds to get one either!I adopted a scoodle (scottish terrier/poodle).She is the best dog ever,she skipped 2 obedience classes,got her Canine Good Citizen,is a therapy dog,and Knows lots of cute tricks.I got her when she was six months old for $30 at animal control! she is now 10 months old.She is the sweetest dog and does not shed and has no health problems.I would never pay hundreds for a dog purbred or mutt.There are many purebreds in the shelters.Both my cockers were from shelters they are the best dogs too.Designer dogs can be the best dogs I have also ha a cockapoo and schnoodle,both pups from shelters.If bred well then I think they are great dogs!