Ok; as some of you may know I am helping me brother in law find a Silky Terrier puppy. There is no breeders within 150 miles of him So on to my Q.
My father lives in Iowa he is friends with this guy that breeds small dogs & silkys are one of them. He only has 3 different breeds of dogs and no more then 2 litters at a time. The man, his wife & 3 adult kids run this business. The man has two large farm houses that are heated and cooled and the dogs are in kennels when they eat & sleep and the house for the mommies is keeped clean power washed twice a day and outside people are not allowed to pet them in fear they will get sick but there is a whole list of pepople that play with them every day. The other farm house is for puppies that are 10-12 weeks old so they can get time to play with different people. My dad told me he was in one of the farm houses and if it was not for the mini see of puppies coming at him he would of never known the guy had puppies. He told me the place was super clean and did not smell one bit. The puppy breeder will switch out dogs that he brings in his home every night & that dog sleeps with him and so on. The breeders oldest kid dose the screening on buyers as his job. And the local schools will go on fild trips to his home. So is he a puppy mill? I don't know. The dogs go on these long walks in his filds with him every day. My dad told me he has at least 40 dogs and puppies. So is he a puppy mill??
***Edited By: rottlover on 9/16/2005 11:34:30 AM*** Reason: bh
I have no idea -- but if I was a puppy and life is really like that on that farm -- I would want to stay forever!!
Doesn't sound like one to me but my only experience with a "puppy mill" Is what I see on "Animal Planet" And what you see there is awful -- not the nice place you talked about at all.
But I am only an pet owner - not a breeder and so I am sure you will get all sorts of opinions. If you can trust your Fathers opinion and believe what he is saying is true and he is not just trying to sell his friends dogs then sounds like a great place to buy puppies..
That is a loaded question. Perhaps Commercial breeder may be a correct term. Eventually, you have to decide for yourself where you want your puppy to come from. Did you ask this breeder any of the questions you were given on the other post?
I have not spoke with him yet my dad is getting me his number so I can call tonight.
P.S. I trust my dad very much & he dose not belive in buying a dog he lived on a farm most of his life and his dogs where the ones that would not go home at the end of the night. When I was little we rescued & bread exotic birds and he hand built all there aviaries (sp) some where so big we walked through them. When he moved we donated one big walk in cage to the old folks home full of small birds I hand fed every two hrs when they where babies. So my dad knows how much I care for animals
***Edited By: rottlover on 9/16/2005 12:16:19 PM*** Reason: s
I guess this post is a good example of why breeders get frustrated answering questions. Many people responded to the previous question about "what to ask a breeder' and then you come back and ask if the person is a "mill". But, you ignore all those who took the time to respond, saying you trust your Dad (which is nice) and still come here to see if anyone thinks the breeder is a 'mill'? I just hope the post helped someone else who may be reading.
Hmmmm forty dogs and puppies is kinda alot. I would want to see pictures and video of this guys place, the dogs, and how these dogs are treated and handled.
So, if I am to understand correctly...he switches out forty dogs to bring into his home on different nights? How the heck would he keep track of whos night was whos?
How many of the "three" breeds does he currently have for breeding?
What age does he "retire" his bitches?
Is he willing to give a healh guarentee on your brothers pup?
It wouldn't surprise me that even though this guy was a puppymill, they sent the kids on field trips to his place because alot of people simply aren't edjucated on the horrible lives that puppymill animals are faced with.
Does he have a website? What is his buisness's name, you can check him out with the Better Buisness Bureau.
First of all Pixiedustpapillons I read every post yesterday & took notes that is why I am looking for a new breeder. And no I have not talked with this man yet because spoke with my dad last night so I was not about to call him at 1 a.m. And for me trusting my dad loveschnauzers asked if I trusted him. I do not have any info on this breeder yet other then what my dad told me & we are going to speak tonight so I can get all of his info so I can find out more about him. By the way Pixiedustpapillons this is a "Pet Discussion Form" right. & is there a rule that only gives you permission to ask 1 question per topic??? I don't mean to be rude but some people just SUCK!!! The whole reason I posted my 2 questions is because I don't want my family to get a bad dog & I do NOT want to support BYB or Puppy Mills. I am so sorry I have more then 1 question but if I don't know I will ask. I thought this is why TP was made in the first place. I do like coming here & like to ask questions on stuff I don't know. I will give you all the info on the breader as soon as I get it. & I am looking at other brerders this was just one of them. Well I guess I should say I am sorry for wasting everyones time who posted on my topic yesterday because I did not just stop with that 1 question and had a few more on this matter. I am so sorry. And for the other people that posted on these Q's Thank You very much.
Couple of questions to help you get some additional insight.
Why does the breeder have 10-12 week old puppies? If it is because he keeps them longer because they are a toy breed, then good. If it's because he just hasn't found homes for him - this is bad news. It means he is breeding more than he has a demand for and isn't taking into consideration whether they will have homes. With that many puppies around it isn't possible for an older puppy to get the attention it needs to continue to emotionally develop unless he literally has one person who is with the puppies all day (assuming he has more than 5-6 puppies that are older).
When you say he only has 2 litters at a time - do you mean of each breed or totally? Does this count older puppies? (meaning he waits to have his next litter until he has all puppies from previous litters in homes?) It is possible to be able to handle more than 5 puppies at a time if you have more than one person helping with them and you know what you're doing. We had 24 puppies in our nursery last April (our girls like to come into heat together - all the puppies were spoken for before they arrived) and it was a lot of work, but with 8 people all pitching in and giving at least 4 hours a day we managed to maintain our normal standards. I actually went on 6 hours of sleep for about 10 weeks as I spent about 16 hours a day in our nursery - I spent most of a day sleeping the day after they all went home! :)
40 dogs is a lot - is that INCLUDING the puppies though? (makes a difference - I only count the adults - though I would want to know why he has 20 puppies on premises and what he was doing to make sure they were well cared for and socialized).
You NEED references from past buyers from a breeder like this. With that many dogs and puppies you need to look at what his track record with parasites are (talk to his vet). Some midwest "farm breeders" have continual parasite problems. Does he guarantee the puppy won't have parasites (if no - I'd pass on the puppy - usually if a breeder won't guarantee something it means they have a problem with it). You also need to have a good understanding concerning what kind of socialization the puppies are getting. You can't MAKE a great puppy in 8-12 weeks - but you can RUIN one very easily. How are the puppies weaned, what vaccinations have their received, what wormings. What does the breeder do to socialize the puppies - in detail.
I live in South Dakota so I know exactly what kind of kennel you are describing. I've seen more than a couple of them. They aren't all necessarily BAD - they just may not be ideal for a PET. I would really stick to requiring a 2 year health guarantee. If the breeder offers that then I give them big points (most "farm breeders" won't). Ask what kind of food they feed. I know some people recommend Diamond - in the midwest you can get a 50lb bag for $11 if you order in bulk. Think about if that is something you are comfortable with. (I order my dog food through the same wholesale company widely used in this area - so I can tell you whether the breeder is just buying decent food at a really low price because they can get by with it and look good) There's some pretty cruddy dog food out there.
My BIG question for the breeder would be "what do they know about their lines?". A lot of "farm breeders" bought their dogs off the cheapest "farm breeder" that would sell to them. That means not only don't they OFA/CERF test but they also don't know if there is a history of defects in their line.
Lastly - does he sell to brokers or pet stores? If the answer is yes to this one - bad idea. Breeding is no longer about the dogs when they do this. It's about mass producing livestock to sell. I have talked to one too many breeders who compare their dogs to cows. Even if the place is clean (which some breeders will just maintain good conditions to insure that their breeding dogs will have healthy puppies to sell) I still personally won't buy from a breeder who will sell to a broker or pet store. They don't care about where the puppy ends up and they don't care about who gets the puppy - therefore they don't usually have much of a sense of responsibility to the adoptive family. Basically because IF they have a puppy with a problem they'll never know about it and usually they like it that way. Once the puppy is out the door they never have to worry again.
It's kind of a personal choice at this point. What kind of breeder do you WANT a puppy from. Do you want it to be raised in a barn or do you want it raised in someone's home? There are good breeders in every kind of environment. You have to find the right one. Again, there are so many breeders out there that I hate to see someone ever settle. You actually need to sit down with your brother and have him make a list of what qualities he finds important in a puppy and what qualities he finds important in a breeder. This would give you a great starting point!
wonderful post abbylynne I think you hit the nail on the head...thats too many dogs...mind you...i have 5 and find it a chore some days to give each what they might need as far as attention...it has to be a proirity...and you sure can ruin a pup with no socialization...good luck on the silky...but personally i would pass on the farm house deal..i wonder how you can power wash the inside of a house...i have visions of mold everywhere...so...sometimes people tell you stuff but it doesnt sit well and as Judge judy says...if it doesnt make since it isnt so...
personally i wouldn't buy from this breeder. if i'm buying a pet from a breeder i want the dogs all raised in the home and the puppies in the home. and i think that's too many dogs. it may be clean, and people play with the puppies, and he may be really good to them, but for me it's just not where i'd want to pay to get a pet from. funny, because it may be better conditions than in a shelter that i'd get a puppy from in an instant. i guess here i'd rather my money go to support a shelter than a breeder with so many dogs. but, i don't know how common silky terriers are, if that's what you have your heart set on.