Chili if it bothers you that much I won't quote you. but I like to let people know which part I'm responding to. Thanks for sharing it is TRUE that they were used for bull baiting and as butcher dogs. No where did it say they were dangerous huh? I'm not just saying anything! I am the one who said they are very dangerous NOW!! And that has died down just a little compared to 10 years ago when people were really breeding them aggressive and they were the biggest thing and the dog chosen by every low life. But there are still many of these people and their sub culture left, they are being bred dangerous and people need to be very aware of where they get their dog and Pit Bulls they do not know. So lets see I wouldn't lie and that book didn't mention anything about them being dangerous did it? Neither were bulldogs. Lets see dogs used on bulls also slept in the house with the family and in some cases ran the streets!!! Wouldn't be good in todays world and its a much dangerous place to even the dogs(of any breed) to not be kept at home. So the dogs were used by butchers to tenderize the meat (in their beliefs) or they did it as an entertainment thing. Either way when butchers took their dogs home they had them in their house with their family and when these dogs free to roam no one feared them. You are talking about some very long ago history and a time when no type of bulldog was known as vicious. Show me where its documented Presa's were used for fighting. Now you are just using dumb logic, they are human aggressive, protection and guard dogs from what I've seen. So yes they would be bred that aggressive, and thats one reason why they (at least today, maybe not in the past I don't know the evulotion of the breed but neither do you) thats why today they could not be used as a fighting dog, too dangerous and a lot don't have a willingness to attack another dog unless the dog is the same sex stepping on their territory. Why would they not breed it aggressive again? half of these dogs consist of mastiffs used in war time to ATTACK AND KILL enemy troops, why wouldn't they retain these traits. When the dogs were imported to the islands they breed these same protective instincts in them to protect the home front, from the wild and strange places out there, from being attacked and raiding and from attacks by wild animals. Most wild animals can be scared away pretty quickly, but not when they are coming after food and don't think the dog is any match. They needed a very rugged and aggressive dog to protect from poachers and wild animals. Not to bull bait or fight. i don't believe the Australian Cattle Dog is rumored to have been ever bred for fighting, yet they are one of the most aggressive dogs out there. Now why were they bred to be like this? Because they were supposed to protect the ranch at all cost and only allowed entrance to the farm hands they knew and the family. They didn't bull bait(but did herd), they didn't fight but did keep wild animals at bay and wouldn't hesitate to unleash a terror on an intruder. Why are Malinios so freakishly aggressive? Because people bred these drive and instinct in them! Some have been rejects from police work because they can't be trained for an out despite every possible training method. Why would some one breed a dog so aggressive if they were not used in? Because the Belgians wanted a no non sense kind of dog capable of taken a hard punishment and keep going, very aggressively making themselves known to any would be intruder/attacker and if they don't stop their going to be taken down. The abosolute and king of all the FILA, why the hell are these non fighting dogs so extremely aggressive and capable of killing? They are not used in fighting so why were they bred to be aggressive? The judges of these dogs are not allowed to get too close to them otherwise the dog is disqualified, they have a natural aggression and are way too over protective in opinion. Why would you own such a dangerous dog when their are other capable of protecting you without wanting to kill every human being that comes to visit. These dogs are way more aggressive than any Presa could hope to be. Tibetan Mastiffs are very aggressive to and make no discernment on who they attack or maul. But they are not used in fighting either. Sorry but protection and guard breeds don't make good fighting dogs, they are bred with a totally different drive in them than a fighting dog. They are also too dagnerous to fight and would be more interested in attacking the other handler than a dog because thats what they are bred to see as a threat. Way too big to seperate during the fight not to mention dangerous. The people who baited bulls and the butchers didnt have or breed aggressive dogs. But when released on a bull would do the same thing a GSD or Dobie does when they do man work and those properly trained dogs are not vicious or dangerous. Bull baiting dogs were not any more aggressive than the well bred dogs of today, they were not anymore dangerous than the pit dogs who were also house pets and child sitters and poster dog for own country. What gave you the idea that bull baiting dogs were dangerous? These dogs would be playing with the kids and sleeping in their homes the next minute. Just like J. Long's dogs. Wouldn't you call those BOAR HUNTING dogs aggressive in your opinion, bred to take down wild, feirce boar with dangerous tucks, power and weighting in at a lot? Yes these dogs can be rumbling aggressivly with a boar and cuddling with his daughter the next minute or even having her calm him down and have everything all right. Boar hunting and the competitions he does are similar to bull baiting in a way but the dogs are not aggressive and far from dangerous, he also has American Bulldogs. Most fighting dogs are not aggressive and aggression will only get a dog so far in a fight say 5, maybe 10 minutes. Aggression is more like a bluff and the dog uses this to scare and terrorize the oppser and then finally attack in which its over shortly between a human and dog.
True is right on the money here. There is not reason to fear a particular breed because of its background or current status. While grooming I was bit my more shih tzus than I can remember. I was never bit by a large dog. Not a chow, or rotti, or mallamute, or pit. It is silly to say that a breed is dangerous. If that is true then the breed would be extinct because no one would want a dog that would kill them in their home.
true pits i know very little about the bully breeds but i do know a bit about belgian malinois and tibetan mastiffs and you are way off base on both those breeds. a belgian malinois is not an overly aggressive breed. aggressiveness and signs of fear in this breed are an extreme fault. they are a bold and confident dog and can be aloof with strangers but aloofness should never be and is not the same as aggressiveness. if you have ever come across a nasty malinois it was poorly bred and not socialized well. as far as the tibetan mastiff goes , they do not attack and maul anyone they see with no discernation. as with any flock guardian breed they size up a situation and use gradual measures to protect. they will first start with intimidation by barking. if their sheer size and barking does not effectively deter a would be threat then they continue on with a low growl then escalate their growling intensity until they are left with no other choice but to attack. they are certainly not an attack first and ask questions later type of dog. i ahve done alot of research into this breed and have met many of them and your description of them is totally false.
I have a cane corso his name is Duke, he is 6 months old and weighs 80 pounds. This is my first one i have Saint Bernards and a pitbull. The Corso is very loving, when i wake up in the morning he will be under the covers of my bed all snuggling with me, and getting hairs in my bed lol. He is very protective if he hears the slighest sound he jumps up and charges outside to get what ever it was. he doesnt like strangers from a distance, he barks at everyone he sees when riding in my truck or at parks or walking down my road. He has a dog door and a 6 acre yard but only wants to be by me all the time.
i also know a lot about the Belgian Malinios from both working and show breeders. I have owned one and plan on adding one to the yard in another five years or so. I just don't know if I have the time to do SCH with having my other dogs even though I know I really want to. If you have seen these dogs in action they can look terrorizing, when they are doing any type of guard work some one would mistake them for being vicious and there have been problems with getting them to out. I'm not saying that is a good thing in the breed at all. The dogs are bred and trained to protect and when they hit the sleeve they hit harder and better than any other shepherd I've seen. Yet they are not bred to fight, they are not overly aggressive, but they are still bred to show aggression and act aggressivly thats what they do as a warning. But they are not and never have been bred to fight, they are bred this way still. I was using it to make a point. They are oneof the most determined and ready breeds out there, solid dogs. Thats what I admire about my APBTs, but they wouldn't make good PP or SCH dogs nor do I believe in using them for this activity. Drive and determination isn't something I've seen this solid in any other breeds too often. Thats why I made the choice of Malinios. Their natural guard instinct is also amazing. Not viciousness. But an instinct to be alert and check things out. To check around from time to time all on their own. Not acting aggressive or vicious, just making sure everything is okay on their surroundings. The problems with the Tibetans are in their own land where they have become a feared and hated dog by some. The dogs are left out by the these people to guard what little belonging they have and they may not even tie the dogs up sometimes. If you happen by expect to be attacked. They don't make a discernment, that person is friendly let's leave him be. They do bark and growl, but what are people to do, they say never run from dog but that is first instinct and the person has either made it some place safe or been attacked. I don't know anything much about the Tibetan Mastiff, if this is do to bad breeding and the way they keep them (no socializtion obviously) then it still is relevent to my point, these people have been keeping these dogs and breed them as mean as possible to keep people away from their little areas and homes. They are not bred for fighting nor are they used for it. Poor breeding can really screw up almost any breed, even if that is breeding aggression into the dogs on purpose, but you dont see them used for fighting. Chili Pepper said that they are definatly used for fighting (Presas) because no one would breed a dog that aggressive unless they wanted to fight it. Sorry but some people breed and make dogs aggressive for the fact that they want a really vicious dog, a "guard dog", and just like the fact that they have "power" through a dog. Not to fight them. Nutty lady moving here with her man biter trained female Pit Bull that she just bred to her "soft" male just because they will make "nice looking" pups. Her bitch is crazy and thats all she can brag about. Guess it makes her feel good and to be breeding them to be aggressive, but she is far from ever fighting any dogs. Sorry for the misunderstanding and I should have said more, but my post was long enough already.
I know that they are Mastiff breeds. You can't judge a breed based on the actions of a few. They are nice dogs, but Can Corsos are too floppy looking, and Presa Canarios just look like a giant Pit Bull Terrier. I don't think it matter how much you socialize either one. Cane Corso are less demanding of attention, and they aren't as stronly bonded to their owner as the Presa Canario. DogFancy's breed in April is a Can Corso, I think. If you take the time to read it, it is a really good article. I agree with True_Pits on this issue. I do know that the Diane Whipple case involoved Presa Canario/Bullmastiff Mixes. I don't really know much about either one. All I really know is that they are Mastiff breeds. But, I like both of them. They are just as lovable and trainable as the Pit Bull Terrier. But, they are dogs that have been bred for fighting. Breeders are trying to breed the dominant and aggressive trait out of the breeds. There are so many different breeds out there. I mean, I don't want to start an argument, but these are fighting dogs. But, it really is the owner's fault. I mean, it is basic logic. I am not understanding Chilli Pepper's view on this issue. Could you explain yourself a little bit more?
Maybe it was my use of the phrase "freakishly aggressive" That is they have the power and drive to unleash a good and hard amount of force and that is even taking a beating they are not discouraged. This isn't "overly aggressive", its hard to describe what I mean. They are no easy contender to match with and its been bred in them to protect and the working drive which can make an aggressive dog in the proper situation (just like a Presa) they should know the difference and the Malinios is very smart. These dogs can't even be teased because they no the person is of no harm vs. a real danger. In which they will protect, training or not and with aggressive force. That doesn't make them dangerous at all. Fine in all situations, saving your life when in danger! They are a lot to handle and do require a lot of training and socializtion. Thats why for now I'm waiting on getting another, I'm too lazy and laid back to get another right now, its so easy having Pits and I'll get another when I'm ready for the commitment. The Fila is now being bred by two types of breeders. Those who say they are keeping it true with super aggressive dogs that can be dangerous even without provocations and the other set breeding them more docile and not out right trying to go after even stranger to better fit into society.
True_Pits, no offense to you, but I really do think you should stop quoting people. But, this is an open discussion, you can do what you want. True_Pits, I do agree with you though. Actually, I should have said this a lot sooner! My mother, who lives in Chorpus Christi, TX has a Cane Corso Mastiff/Rottweiler Mix. He is a great dog! They have him neutered, and vaccinated. He is no threat to the public at all! He just has a few housetraining problems. I know a lot about this breed I guess. I visit my mom every three months. I always play with Rocky. Oh, and by the way, he is 133 pounds!
Wait a sec, True_Pits, you said that you cannot judge a breed by one dog. Then why are you quoting the Tibetan Mastiff as agressive? Remember, you cannot judge a breed by one dog! Oh, and I bought my sister a pit bull book last year, and it even had drawings of people using pit bulls to fight bears. You also said that it never said that pits were dangerous. Hmmm....If the dog is obviously used to bait bulls, and once in awhile to fight smaller wild animals, then I would definetely say that the dog is dangerous for other people, besides the owner, to be around! And who would breed a dog as agressive as a presa unless they wanted it to fight? Think beyond what first comes to mind!
These dogs are not bred to be "people" aggressive. Jack russels were bred to hunt rats. WOW! They must be dangerous, too. Many breeds were intended to hunt and/or kill animals. Dalmatians, akitas, basset hounds, most terriers. Just because dogs were breed to kill/hunt doesn't make them a dangerous breed.
I am not judging the Tibetan by one dog. I am judging by the culture of the people who keep and breed the dogs. They may be doing poor breeding practices and only caring about a ruthless dog, but they don't fight them. I know you mentioned the book. I'm thinking not trying to judge, these are the TB in the peoples own words. What they like may not be right but they don't use these dogs to fight. When I spoke about Pit Bulls no where does it say they were dangerous. That didn't happen until the 80s, back when they baited bulls they weren't considered dangerous, and didn't get that way until recent years. Your the one who isn't thinking, thinking about when all dogs were game bred and people were the last thing to ever be in danger, the dogs were a beloved part of our country, the dogs even became a poster of american courage and honer and stared on a popular TV series with the Lil Rascal kids. They wouldn't have been as wildly excepted and owned if they were aggressive. You need to stop and think, if a pit dog isn't dangerous then why is a bull dog going to be dangerous. Its essentially the same thing, a dog fighting another dog isn't much different than going with a bull or going after a bear. Many breeds were bred/used against bears but are not dangerous. Why in the world would dogs that are meant to protect us from these animals be dangerous to us? How would even those who are used to entertain become dangerous to us. I'm only going by #1 History and #2 The fact that pit dogs and hog dogs are not dangerous should mean that bull baiting dogs wouldn't be either. Considering both are family pets, loved parts of their communities, both are broken in the heat of battle, both go to vets or dog shows, back in the bull baiting days you didn't have this. But you did have owners who kept several of these little dogs and they were always in public light, people took their dogs everywhere and some didn't keep them confined. Dogs were a trusted part of the family and people everywhere loved them and no dog was dangerous. It is a new phenom and a surprising fact to many people who owned pits so long ago and for generations. But it is all the other breeds too. BYB and overbreeding has destroyed the Pit Bull and many other breeds and their reputation. So if Presa's were bred for fighting that would have been long ago. Its kind of an irrelevent point, because now they are not and have changed so much. But from reading what these dogs are about I could never think that they would be fighting dogs, they are way too people aggressive. They have instincts to be weary of strangers and stick to their masters. Most won't fight unless its another dog of the same sex and it takes provocation. Yet there are still people stupid enough to let their loose dogs up to Corsos and Presas, and some owners have had to threaten that their dog will attack just to get the lame brain owners to get their dogs, even though its the last thing their dog would do. They are intellegent and most don't feel threatened so won't attack other dogs. But are definatly protective, they requiring training and socialization. But they will still not take to people they don't know, it would be wrong to expect a Presa to just be fine with every person they meet or people trying to enter your property. Which tells you this is a guard breed, at least it is now. So who cares about the past if its not rellevent to the current. Thats all I mean. I read breed histories that contradict one another so I don't know what to believe.
I'm also with suppermommy many breeds are bred to hunt in kill, we know these dogs are not dangerous obviously otherwise we couldn't trust them and fill safe around them. We couldn't work together with a partnership as we have been doing since the first time we used them to help hunt, fight wars, even the first entertainment or dogs that just liked to spare. Why would the Pit Bull be an exception to this? Only because of their now day poor rep. Elkhounds are hunter but they are not dangerous or aggressive. Elk, bears, raindeer, badgers, mountain lions, wolves. Patterdales hunt badgers and other animals but they are not aggressive or dangerous. The Rhodesian Ridgeback is a protective hound could hunt game, retrieve, take care of children, and guard property. Hunt Lions and take care of children? WOW. Actually though lots of dogs were bred to hunt bears and others just to keep them away, especially the nordic spitz breeds, which often babysat children and although very protective welcomed kind guest. Sometimes these breeds were left ALONE with the children! But they were a trusted and important part of the familiy and watched over the children well. Amazing dogs. A Pit Bull should never be people aggressive, that is something that does back a long way. But people these days tend to forget that and many of the dogs have moved away from being gamebred and don't have the temperament a Pit Bull should have. A lot of people have also mixed them with other breeds. Like the PRESA, now why would you mix a guard breed with a friendly breed that IS powerful and tenacious. It can be very dangerous if they have the temperament of a guard breed with the power and determination of the Pit Bull. There have been many good breeders still trying to preseve the Pit Bull PRESERVE not change it or beed anything out of it. Even though not all of these people test, well a lot of them don't since thats been outlawed, but they temperament test and they always make sure their breeding stock has good nerves and the proper temperament. They cull out the human aggression if they ever came across a dog like that and try to follow the code of old on breeding bulldogs, minus the testing. just think about it, hog dogs are not dangerous bull baiting dogs wouldn't be either. Dogs have jobs, but working dogs are not dangerous and shouldn't be aggressive.
Here is something interesting a friend was telling me. She just went to visit family who have livestock, even had to go to an auction you can imagine how fun that must have been. But there was some eventful times, she took two of her Pit Bulls and her Doberman. Here is what she told me. By the way Sky is the Dobie the other two are the Pits, littermate sisters. "First off, we let them all off the leash. Dobe & 2 Pits. They ALL chased the cows, but Skyy stopped when we told her to. We had to chain Missy & Rogue up, because they would NOT stop chasing the cows. So, while they were chained, Missy got upset because the cows were "taunting" her. They were standing about 20 ft. away from her, just mooing away. She was barking & growling & acting up. She gave a couple of hard tugs & snapped her collar into. I was watching her, but didn't think she could/would actually break her collar! So, she ran off, as hard as she could run, into the field after the cows." "We chased her & yelled at her trying to catch her, so she didn't get stomped. She continued to run full force & chase the cows. After a couple of minutes, she kind of cornered one, ( I guess she had worn it down), & she jumped up on it's back end. Not actually on it's butt, but on the top side of it's leg, a few inches below it's hip. It was freaking out & she would NOT let go. We finally got across the field & got to her, but she still wouldn't let go. She was just hanging on & biting the crap out of the cow. In order to get her off of it, I grabbed her around her tummy & picked her straight up. The whole time she was growling & biting the cow. She NEVER made an attempt to bite me, or anyone else. She was just the happiest dog in the world." This is what Missy can be found doing most of her days. http://a8.cpimg.com/image/2C/32/32642348-36a7-01BA0168-.jpg Like most APBTs she is a friendly outgoing dog, a lover of people, true love for kids and for her owners. She is in no way dangerous, vicious or aggressive. She can normally be found as in the pic but didn't pass up an opportunity to get after a cow. Like any bulldog probably would. Which shows even Pet Bulls have their instincts intact and they are not bred out of them.
I'm new to this board so I don't mean to stir the pot, but how can you condemn cane corsos or pressas or for that matter any mastiff-type dog when if you read the statistics the breed of dog with the most bites is Labrador Retriever. I have two cane corsos and a rottweiler. They are all wonderful dogs. Dogs are only as good as their owners. If you have an irresponsible owner, you are going to have a problem dog. That goes for all breeds; I don't care what it is. The key words are training and socialization. And as for cane corsos having bad temperments, my three year old female, Moko, is a therapy dog. She goes to hospitals and nursing homes, and she particularly likes seeing children. She loves everybody, not just me. If you are paying attention to her, she is your best friend. I have never even heard her growl in three years. Never. Again, a dog is only as good as its owner. Any dog can be dangerous. I spent four years working at the humane society when I was in college and the only dogs I ever was bitten by were small dogs. I was never bitten by a rottie or a cane corso or a pit bull for that matter. Maybe you have had bad experiences with a particular dog, or maybe you have heard stories about a particular dog, but you cannot judge an entire breed by an individual animal or a few individuals. Overall, cane corsos are intelligent, loving dogs. They are eager to please, quick to learn and very affectionate. They are naturally protective, but seem to be able to differentiate between a real and imagined threat. My second corso is a four month old male and he already knows all the basic commands (sit, down, back to sit, heel, stay and stand). He was house trained within one week of coming home from the breeder. And just like Moko, Zane loves everybody. I can't imagine my life without these guys and I probably will always have a cane corso now. They are wonderful dogs. I could go on all day about the virtues of these dogs. I just can't say enough. What more could you ask for? They have it all: Intelligence, loyalty, good natures, size, endurance (they make great running partners. They will go all day and beg for more.) And when you (I forget which person it was) that cane corsos are too droopy, are you sure you are not thinking of a Neo?
cane corso lover i read the article in the dog fancy magazine re: the cane corso. i was very interested in the breed. they seem to have alot of the same qualities that are in the anatolian shepherd which is the breed i have. what struck me the most was the guy saying his female went running up to a stranger jsut to say hi but when he told his girl down she dropped right away. now you won't get that response from your typical anatolian. though they are not likely to attack straight away they are not obedient like that. is the article a pretty accurate description of the breed. sometimes when you read these articles they talk about all the good attributes and not delve into the bad traits as much as i think they sometimes should.
OK True Pits-that lady was acting like a true idiot if she let her dogs chase a bunch of cows. And what do you mean earlier when you said that you didn't like guard dogs? What do you think pits are? Some people can be so.......
Chili yeah IF but since she didn't let them thats irrelevent. Maybe you need to learn to read. I don't know where I said I didn't like guard dogs? Pits are a breed of dog, why? What do you think they are, with everything you say your severe lack of knowledge about APBTs and dogs all together. Some people can be so ignorant, guess you didn't read your sister's book just looked at the pretty pictures. The last thing a Pit Bull should be or is would be a guard dog so thats just another irrelevent thing, right? They are the are probably the #1 stolen breed of dog, which sucks!
Pits are not the #1 stolen breed of dog. Ummmmm where did you get that? Actually, last year on Fox10 the pitbull was the #1 dog that had killed someone. Oh and I know you think I have severe lack of knowledge but by what you just said and what you have been saying it sounds like that might be you. If? It said right in the paragraph that she let her dogs chase cows. Yeah...what a loving dog...
It actually shows that the doberman is the more loving dog. And if you have pits in some states your insurance is higher-what does that mean? Well obviously the pit is a dangerous breed that can kill. Yes I know what you will say-"Any breed can kill!" Yeah well pits were bred for it! I am not coming back to this thread because I don't want to hear your crap about the "Loving, #1 stolen breed"