she was referring to me and lmao means "laugh my a*s off"
And a Bichon did not come from mixing a poodle and a maltese. A Bichon, poodle and maltese all come from the same desendents but are not mixed togther to make the breed. Below came straight from the history section off of the Bichon Club of America's website.
The Bichon Frise is of Mediterranean ancestry. His oldest ancestor is the Barbet, or Water Spaniel, from which the name Barbichon cam, later shortened to Bichon. Also descended from the Barbet are the Caniche, or Poodle, and the Maltese. They have certain similarities because of their common ancestry, but each long ago became a separate breed.
***Edited By: cschimizzi on 10/27/2005 10:46:22 PM*** Reason: added
Keep in mind that the Bichon was created for a reason and the combination of those two dogs were put together for a reason. I'm not a Bichon enthusiast, but I'm sure someone who was would know what it was...
The point is not that we don't like mixes. The point is that we don't like mixes bred for no apparent reason. (Cuteness is NOT a reason).
I'm sorry, but show me a mixed breed breeder, charging $100 that has any right to be called a GOOD breeder. You shouldn't buy from someone like that - you're just lining their pockets and supporting bad practices. Go to the Shelter/Humane Society and adopt a stray mixed breed. You'll get the same thing - maybe better...
And I agree with Acey 100% - mixed breeds shouldn't have cutesy names. They should be called what they are - a pug/beagle mix. Too many people are confused by the whole "designer dog" cute names and I've met too many people who think a puggle is a real breed that has been researched and bred for a purpose. The average person needs to know a "puggle" is a beagle/pug mix so they can make an educated decision regarding whether that particular dog might fit into their life.
I also don't agree with people who wake up one morning, decide they want a dog and go get one. It should be a well thought out decision, made with thought, planning, and research into what you expect/want from a pet.
And to the OP - so you don't like people who don't like mixed breeds - aren't you being a bit of a hypocrite... Maybe we have educated reasons for not liking them? I think it's fine if YOU want to get a mixed breed. I also think it's okay for me to educate someone looking at getting one, so they can decide if a mix is right for them. How do their make an informed decision if they only see one side of the fence?
People are not allowed to breed bash. I think you are doing the exact opposite coming on here to look to start an arguement and bashing against people who aren't pro mixed breeds.
I am offended because everyone is expected to follow the rules, why should you or anyone else be special?
For the record, not that I have to defend myself.... I love ALL dogs. So before you even try an accuse me no, I am not a "mixed breed basher". I am just someone wondering how come the rules are not being followed.
Many of you think the solution to everything is to go to the shelter. I never said I was against it. Feel free to check out any mixed breeders place and not all are bad. Most also breed purebreds. But you have your own opions fine by me and everyone else. And yes a Bichon is from a Maltese and Poodle mix, as per AKC. Oh my, looks as though a Bichon is a Maltapoo, what will we all do? I am done though sorry to bring up this topic, stick to the breed you like and dont Bash others as per the Rules....Thanks Pope. =) But I was not breed bashing at all, I was sticking up for the Mix breeds, it is the people that respond that are BASHING. Think again responders.
***Edited By: puploves on 10/28/2005 1:01:38 AM*** Reason: Add
The following was taken from the Bichon Frise Club of America's flier on the AKC's website:
What is the origin of the Bichon?
The Bichon is of Mediterranean ancestry, descending from the Barbet or Water Spaniel, and is related to the Maltese. He is not part poodle.(Emphasis added.) Bichons have been a distinct breed since about 1400. A few Bichons came to this country in the 1950s, primarily from France and Belgium. The Bichon Frise Club of America was founded in 1964 and the breed recognized by the American Kennel Club in 1972. The Bichon is a strong competitor in the Non-Sporting Group and has proven to be an excellent competitor in the new Agility competition! The sturdy, muscular and sound Bichon is quite athletic and you should expect this "lap dog" to give you a good time with his playful antics.
Merico - And it never surprises me that the "Pro - Mixers" never seem to get the point that regardless of whether crosses were done to create the purebred the point is that every "mix" was done for a REASON and to add a positive attribute to the existing breed. No one picked two random dogs and bred them together because their names mushed together was cute. The crossed in additional breeds to help the dog do it's job better. If the mix didn't work, they scrapped the line. If it did, they refined the addition.
* I wrote this yesterday on another post, same topic, so my apologies to those who already read it. *
People will say that there are just as many crappy breeders of purebreds, and they are right, it just takes a minute longer to find out whether they're crappy or not. If they're breeding 2 separate breeds together then you know before you even need to ask anything else that they are not striving for the things that a responsible breeder would be
All puppies do need homes.. and the public creates where the demand is. That is why it is important to learn and in turn educate others about what makes a GOOD breeder. It's okay not to have been born knowing. If someone got their dog from an an unethical breeder it doesn't mean their dog's not great. But it's perfectly okay to learn more after the purchase of the dog and not encourage more people to buy from unethical breeders. To learn more doesn't mean you don't love your dog. And to have a sweet and pretty dog that one purchased, say, from a pet store, does not mean that one must advocate purchasing dogs from pet stores after learning of the practices involved. Speaking out against unethical practices is not being disloyal to your dog. It just means that one now knows more than they did at the time of the original purchase. And that's okay.
Sometimes wonderful things happen to people and dogs that are completely unplanned.
I was a bit offended by the poster that claimed that people should not just get up one day and decide to get a dog, that it had to be a well-thought out decision.
I will give you a counter-example.
I was driving carpool through a city park when the girls and I saw a skinny filthy dog run in front of our car. I stopped and we eventually "captured" the stray with the assistance of five Catholic schoolgirls and an Asiago cheese bagel.
I didn't need another dog, I didn't even want another dog, but the foster organization who agreed to take our little "find" didn't have an available home at the time. I agreed to foster--and she never left.
Was this a well-thought out decision? No. Did it turn our well? Yes. Would I do it again? The rescue: yes. Take in another animal? I hope not.
CatDog.. for a minute there I read your post wrong and thought you were calling some poor kid a bagel... then realized it was actually a bagel! ROFLMAO.
I have no problem with mixes, though it's these crazys that come on stating that they are better than purebreeds, hybrid vigor, and the such. Thus would get the same reaction if people came on and said purebreeds are better than mix because of this and that.
Yes, most of these mix breeders are in it for the money, but not all. Some are just accidently "oops" breedings, that fine good homes just as a planned purebred litter would.
And people stating that buying a mix puppy from a breeder just lost a dog its life in a shelter, where do you think people bring leftover puppies that no one wants? Purebred and mixed alike.
On that note, it isn't hard to techincally breed any combination. Except maybe the malamute/chi cross puppies I saw in the paper a year ago here locally. I would have loved to see how that happened. From the sounds of it, it doesn't sound like an artificial insemination either.
What is difficult is trying your best with only good intentions in mind.
Sorry but I do not disagree with mixed breeding. I believe strongly that it needs to be done correctly but I don't think that it should be stopped completely. And just for the many people that said all the purebreds were bred for a reason.....NOT all of the were. Some were bred as COMPANIONS!!! Also, we have messed up so many breeds as it is it is about time someone started fixing them. I am not saying I agree with "fad" dogs or the puppymills or anything like that but I DO agree with trying to make some of these poor dogs with all the health problems, that WE created, just a little bit better. There are people who do breed mixes resposibly and they are trying to create an actual new breed. This is where I HATE alot of purebred breeders. I think there are a few too many high horses and snubbed noses in the purebred dog world.
while it is true that purebreeds were at one time mixes ...they werent all mixed from currently recognized breeds. when man domesticated the wolf this creating the dog .. the dogs at that time were referred to as pariah dogs. just your basic street dog. from these dogs are where we now have our current recognized purebreds. carefully selecting from these pariah dogs for certain basic traits to fit in to what specific people needed a dog to do for them. there were all different sorts of pariah dogs all over the planet. hence why many breeds of today can trace lineage back to several differnt countries. the nomadic lifestyle that many people lived thousands of years ago led to wide gene pools, different attributes, which led to what we have today thru careful selection. those were the foundation dogs and since then they have further been bred to what we have now in the various breeds and looks and functions.
all dogs were bred for a specific purpose, even those who were bred for companions. some of the breeds in the companion group werent always only companions.
some of the very basic reasons for breeding are being overlooked by the designer breeders. if they were too be breeding for anything but the almighty dollar then we wouldnt be seeing the crazy mixed breeds we are seeing. if they were breeding to improve upon traits that have been destroyed over the years for no good reason other then looks then they wouldnt be giving these fancy retarded names to the mixes.
for instance the puggle ........ now lets just say that someone actually wanted to breed out the pushed in face of the pug to improve its health. it would make a heck of a lot more sense to pick a breed to use for that purpose that is in close relation to the pug which could giveit the longer nose but still maintain the personality and purpose for which a pug was created. instead they use a breed which is not related to apug in anyway .... its a hunting dog. completely different group of dog, completely different temperament and purpose. if they were using the excuse of bettering the health of the pug, they wouldnt label it with a fancy name .... they would keep the pug name...after all..the purpose is not to create a new breed but to improve an existing one. or ... when a pug puppy is born with an extended snout ...why not breed that one to keep that trait ? then there would be no need to even introduce another breed ?
there is/was a guy in europe who decided to see if he could breed a permanently short tail on a boxer. i cannot recall his name. he used a corgi i believe to achieve this vision. he did not make up cutesy pie names and sell the mixes as anything other then what they were. he had a carefully planned out purpose and his dogs that now breed with the shortened tail are called boxers ... nothing else.
try facing the truth that there is no good reason for what these breeders are doing by mixing god knows what together. the only reason they are doing it is for the almighty dollar. plain and simple. and people keep falling for it time and again.
they could do all the health testing in the world and they still will cannot be labeled as rsponsible...because the very idea of what they are doing is not responsible.
there are over 300 recognized purebred dogs on this planet. do not even tell me that out of all those breeds one cannot find something that would suit them perfectly.
and the people who breed strictly for pet homes are just as bad. there is no reason either that more dogs need to be reproduced just for a pet home. there are enough pets born to the show or working bred parents to satisfy the pet market. not every puppy is going to grow to be the ultimate show or working dog. those pupies are the ones who would make fine pets. breeding for pet homes only is just as irresponsible whether all health tests are done or not.
i am not against all breeding but i really think the people in this country need to get their heads out of the sand .. and look at what is happening in the dog world. the overpopulation in this country is just insane ...... and both breeders and pet owners are to blame for it. its time both acknowledge their fault/part in it and start doing something about it.
i am sure i will get heat for this next statement but if there were to be a law passed that countrywide banned breeding for a specific amount of time ....... i would have to seriously consider whether to sign it or not. the rights to bring more animals into this world has seriously gotten out of control. its the attitude that this country has fostered in other aspects of peoples daily lives that they have the right to do as they wish. its what makes this country great ........ but it is also its biggest downfall because people cannot seem to control themselves or what they are responsible for.
and that is my .02
***Edited By: scout1 on 10/28/2005 7:03:43 PM*** Reason: added link for boxer guy
QUOTE = for instance the puggle ........ now lets just say that someone actually wanted to breed out the pushed in face of the pug to improve its health. it would make a heck of a lot more sense to pick a breed to use for that purpose that is in close relation to the pug which could giveit the longer nose but still maintain the personality and purpose for which a pug was created. instead they use a breed which is not related to apug in anyway .... its a hunting dog. completely different group of dog, completely different temperament and purpose. if they were using the excuse of bettering the health of the pug, they wouldnt label it with a fancy name .... they would keep the pug name...after all..the purpose is not to create a new breed but to improve an existing one.
Not true. They cannot give it the same name, why? Because then you hear people saying how poorly bred that Pug is because it does not fit "standard". AKC, everyones beloved registry, would never register a pug that looked the same but had a longer nose or less bulbous eyes. The BIGGEST problem is the standard in the first place. I bred for pets, does that make me a bad breeder? Does it make me a byb? I always sold healthy pups and I always will take ANY of them back, for ANY reason at ANY time. I say the same thing with all the animals I place wether they are fosters or once I bred.
Why is everyone trying to fit a "standard" anyway?? Most of these dogs do not look anything like what they were originally bred to do. And if breeding isn't all about looks then why does AKC only accept certain colors of certain breeds? It is ridiculous to say that the only way to breed is to better the breed. Aren't the breeds good now? Everyone gets mad at the person who only wants "a puppy" but yet no one has a problem with the "good" breeder who will breed a litter of 8-10 puppies for a POSSIBILITY of a show dog. The person that wants just a "puppy" may just as well find just as good of homes as the show breeder but they are still bad. Chances are too, that that "puppy wanter" will take better care of his dog than the show breeder and not just keeping up on the grooming. It shouldn't matter what breeds are being bred as long as it is being done responsibly. There are "fad" mixed breeders and there are "fad" purebred breeders too. But there is also good purebred breeders and there are good mixed breed breeders.