Obvisoley you have your minds set on purebreds. What ever makes you happy, like I have said, stick with that. And if you want to get all technical here, about Labs and hip problems....then why are you sitting her saying Purebred are better (you do not have to say it it is what you all imply). SO EACH AND EVERY DOG HAS A SPECIFIC PROBLEM KNOWN TO THE BREED, nothing you can do about it. So you as a breeder get a Lab w/ hip problems, you sell it not breed it and now you feel you are CORRECTING the breed? What are you trying to imply? Just bc you do not breed a "problem" dog does NOT mean you are improving the breed.
And mixes are a solution to if some one wants, for example, a fluffy Chihuahua. A Chi/Poo mix is a great solution. Dont come back and say get a long hair Chi, the hair is VERY different. Or how a about a Red or Black Maltese? A Maltese/Poo mix is a solution....You get a bit of eahc breed and the Maltese look with color as with the Chi/Poo mix. Please people.....Just get over it people are going to keep breeding them as COMPANIONS just has MANY PUREBREDS were!
***Edited By: puploves on 10/28/2005 7:57:39 PM*** Reason: add on
Pup your right people will continue to breed what they want. And SOMe people will continue to buy what they want. But that does not mean We can not state our opinion....It does not mean we can not educate people..As long as we do not do it in a rude overly harsh way.
CatDog - you misunderstood my comment. When I said adopting a dog needs to be a well planned decision I wasn't referring to people who see a sickly dog on the side of the road and do the humane thing and stop and help it. I was referring to people who wake up one morning hop on the internet and buy a random dog from a random breeder without doing any research into the breed, or the needs of a dog.
I'm assuming you and your family thought about whether to keep the dog you found for more than 3 minutes? You also understood the commitment you were making? You weren't planning on dropping it back off by the side of the road right? You still have the dog and made the necessary commitment to it? Then you did a great thing if you did all of those things. I have a cat that has a story almost identical to that.
And Katz - I agree with Scout here - yes, some dogs were bred JUST for companions. But the breeders who bred them sat down and considered what to cross into the breed to optimize this purpose. They didn't just pick two or three random breeds and start breeding them. They did extensive research into what they were crossing and they also thoroughly understood canine genetics.
And yes, there are some messed up breeds within what is recognized right now. Of the 300 some breeds that are recognized how many fall into the poorly bred category right now? A handful of them. AND when looking at that pure bred dog you know what to expect and what to look for health wise. With a mix - you have NO idea. And the breeder has no idea.
And concerning the color issue with abiding by the standard - with most breeds, the color limitation is set for a reason. I know with Shelties White Shelties aren't allowed to be show because too many people were breeding double merles - which are often born deaf, blind, and even without eyes.
I will argue that breeding MAINLY for pet homes is not a bad thing - but the breeder NEEDS to understand their breed standard and try and make sure they are producing conformationally correct dogs at all times. I personally prefer to place my puppies in pet homes. I don't breed exclusively for it. At least 1/2 of my puppies are competing and doing well in Obedience and Agility and I place a good number of puppies in homes where they will be mainly pets, but help work the family sheep as well. I also breed selectively for temperament BECAUSE this is what I breed for. My puppies need to have correct temperament in order to excell in competition. I don't think whether you show in conformation makes you a good breeder - I know too many breeders who aren't good breeders that show. I think you have to be well rounded. I just personally look at things from the point of view that if the pup won't make a good pet it's also not going to do well in any kind of competition. I JUST started showing in conformation this year - and I've been breeding for 5 years. The male I'm showing has been part of my program since the start (he was the second dog I adopted/purchased).
This is a pointless arguement as the people who think that mixing certain breeds correctively is okay and the people who think that only purebreds should be bred, will never agree. I think everyone does agree that regardless of what you are breeding, it is good breeding practices that are important.
KatzPomDogz: Way to sum it all up! You are 100% Right! Conversation Over -- as we will go away knowing what WE, ourselves, believe in and that is what we will stick to. No one can change that , so everyone can stop now. As I have said STICK to what makes YOU happy. And to whoever said that color argument, I know white may be a problem. But there is nothing wrong with a all "Lemon" Maltese for example. Pointless argument there, again. But whatever do what you think is right and we will too.
***Edited By: puploves on 10/28/2005 8:52:13 PM*** Reason: Sp.
puplove i understand that if you have a mix breed dog then you want to defend them but there is a very fine line between wanting a mix breed pup and having a mix breed pup. if you have one,good for you i feel very happy for you but if you dont have a dog or had a dog then you do not truly understand popularity fads = pound when 101 dalmtions came out everyone wanted a dalmation pup 2 weeks later there seemed to be 101 dalmation pups in the shelter, again i am not saying that dogs shouldnt star in movies im saying that all these fads are getting out of control
Royal-I wish I knew! I just couldn't believe it! I even called my friend at the paper and asked if it was a misprint-Nope! WOW!
POM-Yes, that is a very true statement-no matter what, good breeding practices must be observed. I used to be pretty open minded, until recently. I have had so many calls about people buying this mix and coming to me for help! I guess it isn't about the mix-but about the breeders breeding them. If they can help past getting the puppy out the door, the shouldn't be breeding at all. Yes, that does happen with purebreds too, but I don't see near as many requests for help in that department-once again, not saying it's the mixes-but the quality of breeder they are coming from. I do know some super breeders who do mix-very good people, great dogs too.
Yes, there are fads in purebreds too and boy does it hurt. Westies for example. They have been extremely popular lately. So for me, I set a price based on the quality of the puppy. So when the market gets flooded and the broker price goes down, then many commercial breeders sell them privately. But usually ask only $50 or so more than broker price. So now, where I have an average price for my puppy that comes from proven and tested lines, I get nasty phone calls from the general public telling me my prices are too high and would I take this price or not sell with my guarantee. AARRGGHH! Also now that they are starting to fall in popularity, there are many breeders selling out of them. How do you expect to improve lines, when you get in and out with the fads? So yes, fads are a horrible thing both in purebreeding and in mixes. Point agreed!
RIDance....all of us have/had mutts and a few have/had purebreeds as well and we love them all the same that is not where the problem lies here. I agree with Scout on this on as well. There is absolutely no reason to be breeding these mixed breed "designer" dogs other than to make pure profit and that makes it wrong.
That's not true. There are many positive reasons to mix certain breeds with certain breeds. I would give you examples, but you probably don't care and it won't change your mind anyway so I won't waste either of our times.
It's important to examine what the breeder has at stake. A breeder who wants to put a black mouth cur in his line of catahoulas that he uses on his farm has much more at stake than a breeder who wants to mix a maltese and poodle and sell the offspring as pets to whomever will fork over the cash. In the case of the first breeder, if the dogs don't work out, the farmer is in big trouble because he needs the dogs to herd the cattle so that he can earn a living. Because of this need, the farmer will take great care in planning the breeding. However, in the second case, if the pups turn out unhealthy or foul tempered, the breeder loses nothing. He'll still be able to sell the pups and earn the money he's after.
I don't know why you're making such a big deal out of this. Why are you making is seem like the only bad or careless breeders are mix breeders? There are people who just want to breed purebred dogs to make the dough. It doesn't matter wether they're pure or not! I don't get it!!! People can be good or bad breeders with either type of dog.
... "I see alot of close minded people here. I bet as soon as AKC recognizes one of these "designer" breeds and they have a parent club and a set standard, you all will be fine because it is a purebred... "
THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT!!! Just like if we all were the same color, the next day there would be some racial remarks. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A BALL-BUSTER like some of your guys out there. THE MINUTE A MIX BECOMES A PUREBRED it will be A-OK, wonderfully said KatzPomDogz.
You guys out there are being hypocrites. You act as though there are not BAD PUREBRED breeders as well. It is great that you love your purebred dog at home, so do I as I love my purebreds just as much, but are you all saying we should limit ourselves to purebreds? Mixes are just as good, do not just sit there at your computer and type that purebreds are better. It is not the truth. LIke you said Labds have hip problems, Pugs have breathing problems, why not mix a Pug to a Beagle and possibly cancel that out? You MAY OR MAY NOT but it is just has much a risk as breeding a Pug over and over to get another Pug.
IF YOU SAY NOT TO BREED MIXES ON PURPOSE THEN WHY WOULD YOU BREED A PUG (for example) THAT YOU KNOW HAS BREATHING PROBLEMS?? How can you say purebred lines are better? * I am not tlaking 2nd generation, but if I was them you would breed a Cockapoo to a Cockapoo...Same dog producing the same dog. Move on people. Get a life.
***Edited By: puploves on 10/28/2005 11:09:00 PM*** Reason: ad
IF YOU SAY NOT TO BREED MIXES ON PURPOSE THEN WHY WOULD YOU BREED A PUG (for example) THAT YOU KNOW SOME OF THE OFFSPRING WILL HAVE BREATHING PROBLEMS? Explain that one please, not to be rude but it is a good point.