If Ben is "stupid" for saying that all GSDs prefer to be outside (which I am not sure were his exact words), then wouldn't it be equally "stupid" to say that all dogs prefer to be inside? Case in point, Katz dog prefers to be outside. My mastff usually preferred to be outside, unless it was raining.

Kat's dog does not prefer being outside. He has to go outside or he will hyperventilate. I don't think it's a choice. Ben chooses to put his dog outside. Katz and Koda would love to be together indoors if he could breathe properly indoors.
GSD are very smart and are pack animals. They love sleeping with the pack. Sleeping together is very important for them. GSD need constant human contact. They are so easy to train so I don't see how they could be destructive because they are working dogs. Load of crap. Stop making excuses for your poor decision. My GSD and my family's GSD have not destroyed our house. We have nice furniture and they don't chew it or sleep on it. We have plants and they don't eat them. We have candles, and all kinds of decorations and they are left untouched.

Color me confused!

First of all, the title of this topic leaves MUCH to be desired when all are screaming about trying to make this a more pleasant place to post.

Secondly, I personally feel that bringing a dog (domesticated pet of any sort for that matter) means that you are making them a part of the family. While it may be a thought in most parents minds to leave our children outide 24/7..it's merely "wishful thinking" when they're tearing around the house and you're wiping up spills for the 100th time that day.

On the OTHER hand, from what I read, Ben was specific in stating he felt that WORKING dogs were far happier left outdoors, not locked indoors, where they become bored and destructive. I don't see where he advocates leaving any animal outdoors 24/7, not GSD or any other breed for that matter.

I can tell you that if MY crew is locked IN the house 24/7, I wouldn't have any curtains on the windows, the sofa cushions would be short lived and I would NEVER have a remote control that was in one working piece.

My guys are a working breed. They get bored easily and what one doesn't think of, one of the other two will.

Do I leave them out all the time? NO, they live in the house with us. Do I leave them in the house for extended periods of time unsupervised? um...NO.

The bottom line is that looked at honestly from the quoted "working dogs" not being happy to be locked indoors all the time, I'm afraid I'm going to upset most of you and say I have to agree with Ben on this one.

I should also tell you that I have to FIGHT Arwen to get her to come IN, Uballo hates to go OUT and Beau, well...he saunters no matter WHICH way he's headed. As long as he has a comfy place to lie down, he could care less if it's indoors or out!

***Edited By: pyrmom on 11/17/2005 6:56:02 PM***
Reason: ***

I do believe most dogs are left out 24/7 due to lazy owners who do not want to take the time to train them as to what chewing, etc is appropriate....there are exceptions, Katz for one. We also had a St Bernard, who was a house dog, had been for years, only went out for excercise, bathroom. She decided that she only wanted to be outside to the point of going as far as eating through the door around the frame to get outside, and you couldnt drag her in even for a minute, she loved the outside, and was thankfully a good breed for it. She was granted her wish 2 doors and a few windows later, and she was happy and content...lived to be 16 yrs old (old for a saint)

For those who believe that all dogs belong living outside...I have seen Pugs, Chi's ,Rat terriers, etc that are forced to live outside year round. Those people need to have their stuff packed and let them live outside for a month in the winter and see if they still agree.

***Edited By: lpn169 on 11/17/2005 6:48:36 PM***
Reason: sp

Actually there are breeds of dogs, mainly in the LGD class (large guardian dogs) That do not need human companionship, infact they are bred for an independant nature. I agree that pets should be companions first and foremost and most breeds do prefer being in the home...but there are breeds, that thrive on being an "out side" dog.

Not true... dogs were created BY humans to BE WITH humans, companions.

FluffyPinkBunnyFeet, my (Great Pyrenees) dogs are LGDs (livestock guardian dogs) and there are really two thoughts on the whole human socialization.

Some insist that they NOT be socialized with any but the livestock they are guarding and are placed with the flock at about 8-10 weeks of age to live full time.

They ARE bred to think independantly (trust me on THAT one!) which CAN lead to serious problems if they are kept as pets and not properly trained and socialized from a very early age.

Others feel that they must still have human interaction even when kept for the purpose of doing the job for which they were bred.

Personally, I don't see how one could properly insure their health if they NEVER socalize with humans, but that's just me.

The only "livestock" around here are my grandchildren and my crew does very well with them~grin

i didnt take your copy and paste of what ben said to mean he is spreading lies about gsd;s needing to be out 24/7. i think ANY breed left in a house all alone all the time would be destrutive .....not just the gsd .


fluffy pink bunny feet - you are correct ....the LGD's were bred to be independent of man ..... they were bred strictly for working purposes not for companions ...... so they can live a life outdoors 24/7 and be perfectly content. BUT they do need human interaction or they will grow up to be a very dangerous animal. my pyr .... and the two anatolians i have now ......... LOVE being outdoors. but they also LOVE laying on the couch with me getting a belly rub and one of them ALWAYS has to sleep with me and the other with my son.

Ask ben he will tell you that he leaves his GSD outside. The dog does not live with him inside. My dogs go outside too. The play outside and go for walks with me outside but they live indoors. They have indoors toys and beds.

I know we don't live in Germany. Anyway most people in Germany do have their GSDs or other dogs living inside. They are fine, well behaved and so on.

They go with the dogs to dog parks, forests and so on.

Maybe that is what he does with his dog. I personally don't agree that every dog needs to be outside all the time but it isn't my life to make that decision, and I am sorry scary but it isn't your either.
Mow a dog being neglected and not being taken care of or chained all the time THAT is not okay, but some dogs do okay outside only as long as they have the proper socialization and get to interact with the family EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Scarydog you continue with your rudeness but it is okay, because you are uninformend and I understand that you are doing this for the love of dogs and I admire that, because believe it or not I do love dogs myself. Hopefully in time you will mature be more open minded and learn how to speak in a civilized manner.

Thanks to the ones that have read my posts correctly, and have understand my views without prejudice.

What I will say is just my opinion after some research and I could be wrong, we are humans after all.

GSD’s can be pet and working dogs depending on their bloodlines.

Most working dogs tend to have very high drives and dominance. While working GSD’s are very smart to train you can’t train drive. Some of the people that keep their working high drive dogs inside and don’t involve them on any physical activities and don't do obedience training end up with dominance issues and a destructive dog. The dog ends up growling, biting or even killing a child with the end result putting the dog to sleep because they did not know how to raise him, absolutely not the dogs fault.
Just look at the news archives, you will find many cases.

Do most dogs want to come inside? YES. But most working dogs with high drives they tend to get bored (since they are not able to play and jump around like outside) very soon and look for the door after few minutes to go outside.

In my case I love outdoors a lot and so does my high drive GSD. We go walking and hiking together every day (Before work, after work, weekends). We play together. I do obedience training with him everyday, I groom him everyday, started doing tracking with him etc. Everybody is telling me that I spent way too much time with him; it even got my wife mad a few times. I have my dog as a companion, but I also want him for security and personal protection. After quite some research that I have done on work dog world (before I bought my dog) most have suggested that having the dog sleep outside will make him tougher and not as lazy. Also my wife is a clean freak and have agreed with her before I bought the dog that the dog will sleep outside except during bad weather. I have recently built him a cold weather insulated dog house that has cost me almost $600 of materials only. (Canadian police uses those doghouses for their dogs) I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night if I would have known just for one second that my GSD is suffering in any way. Most evenings (after making him tired) I bring him inside while I watch TV. During very bad weather he sleeps inside the house in his crate.

I don't judge anybody wheather they keep their dog outside or inside. All dogs need love and attention, (working dogs also need to keep them extra busy) and if you give them all that and all the care that they deserve I have nothing against a working dog being outside or inside, it's just that I believe a pet would be a much easier to live with as an inside dog.

"After quite some research that I have done on work dog world (before I bought my dog) most have suggested that having the dog sleep outside will make him tougher and not as lazy."

My dogs are tough and definitely not lazy. I guarantee if you come in my house uninvited my dogs will eat you for lunch. They also know to accept strangers with my approval. It's called proper training and socialization. My dogs go outside quite often. They play fetch, we run around, we go for walks and we run. When I am indoors they constantly stare at me through the french doors. They are most happy being with me. Keeping a GSD indoors all day is stupid. They need exercise. I never said to keep him the house 24/7. I don't keep him outdoors 24/7 either. Working dog or not he is still a dog and all dogs need human contact. They are pack animals and need to be with the pack.

"FluffyPinkBunnyFeet, my (Great Pyrenees) dogs are LGDs (livestock guardian dogs) and there are really two thoughts on the whole human socialization.

Some insist that they NOT be socialized with any but the livestock they are guarding and are placed with the flock at about 8-10 weeks of age to live full time.

They ARE bred to think independantly (trust me on THAT one!) which CAN lead to serious problems if they are kept as pets and not properly trained and socialized from a very early age.

Others feel that they must still have human interaction even when kept for the purpose of doing the job for which they were bred.

Personally, I don't see how one could properly insure their health if they NEVER socalize with humans, but that's just me.

The only "livestock" around here are my grandchildren and my crew does very well with them~grin "



Its not about current thoughts on rearing the breed. This breed as well as other LGD breeds, were created for the purpose of self survival alone guarding their live stock. Of all the LGD's the pyr is the most human oriented. However, not all LGD's really like being with any one but their live stock.

If you raise a pyr (or any LGD) with people then yes, it will want to be with people. Some are poor guard dogs and always want to be with people. But the first purpose of these dogs (LGDs) was to live, alone, in the pasture with their live stock in the wide open spaces.
There are breeds that exist today that could never "survive" on their own...but then their are breeds like the LGDs where as it was vauled for that ability for self judgment.

My family's GSD Abby hates being away from my family. She goes outside, does her potty business, and comes and waits by the door to come back in. She likes to be in the yard if someones out there playing fetch with her or something, but not alone. Shell just whine by the door to come back in.

I dont know why anyone would get a dog to leave it in the yard, JMO. I personally love when my dogs cuddle up on the couch with me..even big butt Abby.

Life of Riley wrote:"Not true... dogs were created BY humans to BE WITH humans, companions"


Well your half right. Dogs are man made, no argument about that. But they were NOT all created to be "companions." Many breeds have very bloody pasts where infact their sole purpose was to be used in the gladiator battles, or to subdue slaves, or to fight bears, hunt hog, or kill each other.
The "idea" of a "pet dog" is a relatively new concept. There were a few breeds that were created in the orient to be pets, actually more like decorative items, but they are in the minority. Wether it was to hunt, kill, track, retrieve, the first purpose of a breed was a TOOL for human beings to make their life easier or more entertaining.

Ben, Im just curious...you said you built your dog a house (i forgot the words you used, sorry). Can he go in and out of that house you built him when he wants? I ask because I was wondering what happens when no one is home and there is a thunderstorm or something like that?

Acey your dog Abby is a carbon copy of my two GSD. They whine when left outside. They have each other but would rather be with people. They potty and want in unless I am outside too. They sit infrot of the glass door and stare at me with those puppy dog eyes. Everywhere I go they follow me. I am in the shower they lay down on the cold tile floor. They are velcro dogs. Mine would die of a broken heart if left outside.

http://www.dogster.com/pet_page.php?i=50370&j=t

That is Abbys dogster page...look how cute she is :)

(the pics on the bottom are most recent and the one of her and Summer..they both look like theyre smiling!)

***Edited By: aceyfacey2 on 11/17/2005 10:10:53 PM***
Reason: f

Ok Acey how much do you want for that dog? :-D I want her! My husband is going to hear about her all night. I have been begging him for another baby. I want another pound GSD or maybe a baby rottweiler. I have to read about rotts first. I don't want to get in trouble and end up with a very aggressive crazy dog.