I am having a VERY hard problem right now. For the last month or so, we have been having problems at our house. Now Koda, (golden retriever/chow) has always been food aggressive and crate aggressive with other dogs. Never has been an issue because I keep their crates seperated and they get fed at night seperate from each other. Recently, the dogs will find old treats in the yard or grass or really anything that they can pick up(even rocks) and Koda then will get VERY aggressive with Chi-Ching. Koda will attack him, He chews on the back of his neck. In the past month or so, he has bitten him multiple times and made him bleed once. Now it is happening over nothing at all. For the most part they get along great, they can go a week and be perfect playing together and then Koda will just freak out on him. Koda has not really been the same since Kaia was put to sleep(another golden/chow we had). We thought that since we got the puppy fixed so early their would be no issues and as Chi-Ching gets older, the fighting is happening more and more. Chingers doesn't fight back at all...right now. But I am terrified what will happen once that stubborn puppy decides that he has had enough. Right now, I am more afriad for Chingers, he is alot smaller then Koda and Koda is not just giving a warning snap, he will bite down on Chingers neck and "chew". It gets the puppy screaming. then he will let go when we go out there. Koda has always been around either little dogs(pomeranians and a doxie) or female dogs. Any of the other dogs we have had in foster care were never here more then a few weeks. Chingers is the first "big" male dog to be here for longer then just a few weeks. I am afraid that this is male/male aggression but I do not know what to do. Can two males live together peacefully? We do make Koda Alpha by giving him everything first from petting and treats to bedtime and dinner. But Chingers does not seem to be trying for a higher rank, he just wants to play. Koda has changed so much. It is hard because I can't trust him with Chingers alone, I never know why or what may make him freak out. I am afraid that this is only going to get worse as it seems to be almost doubling weekly. Both dogs get quite a bit of one on one attention seperate from the other. I had been told that I should bring Koda with me when I take Chingers to training but I think that that may backfire as Koda gets VERY jealous when I work with the puppy on training and he has to stay back. He will start whining(he is not normally a whiner at all) and when he gets to me, he will jump up and push the puppy out of the way. Sometimes giving a small growl. So I know that I am a reason for part of his aggression but at home, he does it when I am not even near him, usually it is when the two of them are outside. I do not know what to do. If anyone has any ideas, please let me know.
Let them out into the yard seperately. When Koda is out, keep Chi-Ching in, and flip flop it. If for some reason both dogs need to be out, is there any way you can seperate them? When you leave the house, can you put them in seperate rooms?
Katz, I once had two dogs who didn't get along real well. I just kept them separated when they weren't supervised. No problem at all! Even if Koda continues to "act the alpha," you shouldn't have to give up one of your babies! Unsupervised separation isn't all that hard.
Sometimes we have to keep our dogs seperated, it happens. Many of us have gone through having dogs that do not get along and sometimes its a tough part of pet ownership that we have to come to accept. If they do not like each other they will be unhappy together not apart.
Why would one have to be rehomed? This is a very common problem and often there is not a fix for it. We have to accept it as part of our responsibility to them.
My problem goes into even being supervised. Koda still attacks him even when I am standing right there! I do not want to give up one of my dogs at all. I am trying to decide how I can make this work. Our house is not all that big. Part of the reason that we got the puppy was so that Koda would have a buddy because he cannot be in with us. It sucks that even after we got him, he still has no friend. Koda has been acting very odd lately. He has been very sad. He won't come to me when I call him. Half the time he won't get up when I walk in the room. We have had him checked out but nothing is wrong with him. The vet said that he is depressed. We have been spending alot of time with him but I also have to spend alot of time with the pup. I am worried what Koda will do when I start training with Chingers. I start on the 11th. We will be gone all day and Koda will be all alone. I am afraid he will start to resent the puppy. I think he already has started. So, is there anything I can do other then keeping them completely seperated for the next 12-15 years??
Does anyone else have any other ideas then keeping them isolated from each other for the next 12-15 years? I am honestly looking for a way to help them get along. I love my dogs but one will go before one gets killed unless I can figure out something to help them get along. I am really wanting to find a way to help them but I don't know what to do. I do not think that seperating them is going to do anything but make the times they are together more tense. I really just need them to get along, even just enough that they can be in the backyard together.
It sounds like your problem with Koda are 'problems', he doesn't like to be in, he's depressed, male aggression etc. Some dogs like being solitary, maybe Kodas depression is because of the new puppy, he really doesn't like sharing his space, you, treats. I have a chow breeder friend, I realize that Koda is a mix, but this breeder told me that chows aren't as social as many other dogs are, particularly when they get older. If you were talking about smaller dogs the situation would be tough but managable, a big jealous dog thats ignoring you is a big problem. It sounds like the behavior is escalating. Could you have someone take the puppy for a week or two so you can determine if that is the problem? During that time I'd put Koda on puppy prozac and start to reintroduce the puppy slowly. If Koda is fine when the puppys gone then reverts when the puppy returns even with the puppy prozac then yes, all you can do is keep them apart. Rule of thumb is its usually better to get a female as a companion than another male. If Koda really doesn't want this puppy as a companion there's not much you can do.
Well, I don't really have someone that can take him because he doesn't like very many people(the puppy). But Kodas depression started after Kaia was put down, she was his best friend. They got along great, and Koda always seemed to like EVERY dog. I wasn't concerned with him at all, I was more concerned with Chingers having any issues. Who knew! Chingy is a great dog but he doesn't like anyone but his family until he gets to know them. So, I can't really send him anywhere. I don't know. I am just going to have to talk to my trainers and see if they have any ideas. I want them to be together but I won't have the pup attacked or killed. I don't know what to do.
Pope, the biggest problem with treating them the same is that Koda has to be outside more then the puppy, Koda WANTS in but he can't stay in. He starts having major problems breathing, we took him to the vet after we first got him and they did x-rays and said, basically, that he has like a pre-asthma and that he just needs to stay cool. So part of his jealosy is that the puppy is inside. But even when I leave the puppy out with him, he finds some other reason to attack him. I will be talking to my trainers on the 11th. I don't know if they will have any other ideas other then keeping them seperated but I will see.
BTW, for those of you that don't know, Chi-Ching has been here since he was 8 weeks old, he is 5-6 months old now. Only in the last month has things really gotten bad, really in the last couple weeks. It is like the older(and bigger) Ching gets, the worse it is getting.
i think you would have done better with getting a female for your second dog. but hindsight is 20/20 and whats done is done. i have tiffs between my gsd and my male frenchie, but just over treats. rocky will run up on harley and bite his face. harley will put him down quick and the tiff is over. they are buddies again. harley doesnt hurt rocky though when he does it . he just grabs him and pins him to the ground and its over that fast. you have two large males and that will be a big problem when chingy gets bigger and fights back. maybe you could put up a divider in your yard where they each have their own yard and when they tiff, separate them immediately. dont ever get in between them though , when enraged they could bite you without meaning to. if you have a hose nearby that works well with some dogs. some dogs just take a few tiffs until they establish which one will be the dominant one . you could always talk to a trainer and see what they reccomend. good luck katz !
I dont think keeping them appart all the time would work very well eather. Your not always home if you had to tie them up out side befor you went somewere one could get lose and end up being killed by the other or killing the other.
thats a toughie.
I think you should see if its the puppy thats making him act like that. I understand that he was depressed it befor but maby the new pup made it worse. Maby he was not ready for a new friend or maby the 2 were bonded and he wants nothing to do with the new dog.
I understand that the puppy does not like other people eather. Rocky would freak if we left him with someone for more then a few hours. maby you could ahve him put in a pet bording place or if he likes his vet ask the vet to keep him for a few days. Or you can find someone who is willing to keep them for a week or so have them come over alot to get him used to the dog. Or maby you can trick your other dog into thinking the pup is not there. keep them totaly away from eachother when the pup needs to go out let coda in when he needs to go out sneek the other on in (make sure they dont see eachother) maby after a wile he will not notice then after a wile stop hiding the pup. I know dogs can smell but maby he will think its left over puppy stink or something. I dont know if that will work but if thats the only way you can its worth a try. Or you can keep the pup in the garage for a few days. I have had to keep chi in ours for about a week because she kept getting out we fixed it but she kept finding ways out so finaly we wired up anything that even looked like a dent and it took about a week to make sure we got everything. She did fine in there we went in there and gave her food fresh water blankets cleaned up any pop and played with her she was quite happy. If you do that or hide the pup id wash up and change my cloths befor bringing your dog in or going outside to play with him.
Sorry if i was no help I couldnt think of any other ideas
I woud put Koda on a prong collar and short lead and firmly correct any unwanted behavior toward the puppy immediately. I would also do extra obedience with Koda to occupy his mind to alleviate the depression. If he's bored, he might start just obsessing over anything.
I'd put the puppy on the same collar and lead and teach him how act properly around the older dog, with corrections if he gets too "in his face".
I also wouldn't leave them along together until you are positive they are over their problem.
This might sound crazy, but if you correct koda while being aggressive towards your pup, koda might associate the discpline with the pup. also koda might feel you and the puppy are against him, making him fight for his position more. Does koda put bad holes in him? if not i would leave koda alone and let him do it. the dogs usually find some aggreement. this many times is very hard for humans to do. I always let my dogs eat together, they do fight sometimes. also addie learned early that going into a another dogs food dish, ment they got in trouble. by the other dog.
***Edited By: gunny on 1/4/2006 11:42:04 PM*** Reason: d
I am certainly no expert and don't even pretend to be, but, we went through the same thing and nothing worked. Now, even with Max fixed he can't really be trusted with Tina. My vet told us never to leave them alone. He likes Mandy but he will not even allow Tina to play with them. She will jump at him and do everything to play and get along but it is a no go. He has jumped on her and we had to have her stitched up with us right there. My little doxie he jumped on, he had brought blood a couple of times and then the last time he almost killed him. They seem to always go for the neck area. I think females can be bad too, but I never will have two males at the same time again. Sorry, can't really advise what to do, because personally I don't think you can get to a place of trusting them completely. Also, I never let them take treats or rawhide or anything outside. A buscit is what almost cost Muffin his life.
I think I'm in agreeement with a few others here. It's unpleasant to hear, but you may indeed be forced to keep the dogs 100% seperate all the time. Sometimes there are no easy fixes for aggression problems with dogs, it's the sad truth.
It sounds like Koda is resenting Chingy for merely being inside, when he is forced to stay out. I suspect that Koda sees Chingy's time inside while KOda is forced to remain outside as proof of desire to be alpha dog, whether this is the actual case or not on Chingy's part is irrelevant, it's what Koda believes. So when Chingy comes outside, Koda vents his frustration and domination the only way he knows how.
If Koda is attacking Chingy regardless of whether or not you are outside with them, and the attacks are escalating, I hate to say it but there's a point of no return here that you do NOT want to push either dog to. Eventually it sounds like one or the other dog may pay the ultimate price, with its life. If you love your dogs, sometimes you have to do the tough thing, the thing you seem not to want to do, and that seemst o be keeping them 100% seperate. Because it sounds like you are risking your dogs life every time you let them together. What will you do if Koda decides not to let go? Some dogs will literally hold on to the death (ask anyone who's got a terrier :P)
Truthfully it's not as hard as you may think, especially given the fact that Koda is pretty limited on his inside time. Heck it could be as simple as walking Chingy outside in the front yard. It'd be even easier if you could invest $200-$300 in an additional outside 6ft kennel. Put Koda in the kennel before letting Chingy outside. Now you have 2 dogs that can be outside at the same time without being in danger from each other.
Oh Katz! Poor Chingy and poor Koda! I'm so sorry this is happening. They are both very special dogs (I fell in love with their many pictures). Hope you can solve this problem to the satisfaction of all.
At the risk of sounding heartless here Katz, I'm just going to come out and say what I think. I think you give up to easy. I'm not knocking you for asking for advice, but your remark that one may find itsself an only dog is irresponsible to say the least. You need to think about these things BEFORE you get these dogs, yes hindsite is 20/20. However it wasn't long ago you rehomed a dog for a personality conflict. If these were your children would you get rid of Joe cause Frank hit him. I think you should follow through with your commitments, spend more time coming up with a solution for your own home and less time at the neighbors criticising their grooming care of their dog. If you do rehome one of these dogs I hope you will figure out that you and dogs are not a match made in heaven and consider goldfish in the future. I'm sorry if my bluntness offends you or anyone else. Sometimes I know we are all unaware of our actions and it helps to have a friend point out an area of weakness. So you can consider this as friendly, I'm not saying this behind your back but to your face. In the meantime, may you have the best of luck coming up with a solution.