Hi
First and foremost, everyone is entitled to their opinion and what they will do in regards to their pets. I just hope the pet's best interest is at heart all the time. Whether a person needs to do it due to medical reasons, or wants to do it because it's an extreme situation, that lies with them.
As far as I go, I have a Yorkshire Terrier. They can be and are known to be extremely yappy. On top of that, of course they are terriers, and ours seems to be a little on the territorial side. And I have two Min Pins as well, and they too are on the territorial side. Thank God over time my Yorkie must have realized that yapping wasn't going to get her anywhere, since my two Min Pins are very calm and quiet actually. They barely bark.
However, Lola (the terrier), still barks constantly throughout the day, but with training and her not seeing the others bark, she has calmed down ALOT. Although, whenever she is outside and no matter who she is with, she will run around in the yard and bark for what seems to be no reason at all for the entire time she is out. We soon realized that when we take her out throughout the day, she cannot be out for more than 30mins each time. I live in the city, and I do not want to "disturb the peace." If she sees anyone, even some people she knows, she will still bark but then she gives kisses (even to strangers and especially to dogs she is not familiar with.) So in my case, it's not an extreme situation, but it was rather annoying before. However, she has calmed down alot.

With that said, I am still not for "de-barking," but people are entitled to their opinions and responsible for their actions.

I think Debarking is sad thing to do to a dog. It is the only sort of way that a dog can tell you what is going on or what is happening with him. Let's say for example your dog is always up and barks at you for certain stuff, then you know it is bad sign if he is not barking! If he is debarked then you would never know. He wouldn't have a personality!! Animals got shortchanged in the voice department so I think give them the voice that they have.

DOGS WERE MEANT TO BARK
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regretful of even starting this post. You know, it is easy for every one to say that dogs were meant to bark

-- until you have experienced a habitual constant barker. They don't bark to say anything, warn you of anything, or communicate in any way. They bark just to bark.

Not every one lives in the country, some people live where there are laws about disturbing the peace. If other options have been exhausted I would MUCH rather see a dog debarked than put to sleep or dumped in a shelter.

I remember from this thread there are a few people who know what I am talking about.

My dogs are my children.
If my child screamed all day non-stop, I would not cut it's vocal cords.

Unless my child ....screamed all day... I might.

***Edited By: alicat1 on 9/19/2006 12:08:52 AM***
Reason: wow

LOL Reading this everyone just pretty much cracked me up... It's like arguing weather or not your kids are your equals... I would like to address a few issues... LOL

1). Your dogs are YOUR dogs and you DO OWN THEM...!!! Weather you LIKE IT or NOT.!!! If you don't, you CAN NOT take them to the Vet, you can NOT spay/neuter them, and you SURE AS HECK can NOT bail them out of jail (Pound) if they ever end up there...!!! Look at some paperwork you fill out.! Do you CROSS out the word "OWNER" when you fill out a piece of paper about your dog..??? If you do, you have ISSUES..!!! LOL


2). "Spaying and Neutering Prevents more dogs from ending up in Shelters"..... BEAUTIFULLY said..!!! But what about THOSE dogs that Bark and wake up the neighbors and but his owner feels it is INHUMANE to Clip a PIECE OF SKIN at the BACK of the throat to QUIET them down a bit..??? Would YOU get rid of your dog just becasue it BARKED.??? SERIOUSLY.??? If you OWN your home, and because you now have the freedom to do so, you go to the Shelter and RESCUE a dog that was quiet and sweet and needed your love and affection, and after a week at your house he is waking up your kids and getting your neighbors upset and getting the Municipality called on you, and then you are givem warning, and then fines of $180.00 or MORE each WEEK...? WOULD you PAY them..??? Seriously.??? Or WOULD you loose your home and go live somewhere where you REALLY do not want to live simply because the Pooch you rescued feels like barking at the sound of the wind..???

5). I have heard SO MANY of you speaking about using SHOCK COLLARS on the dogs to "Train" them not to Bark..... Do you SERIOUSLY believe that a dog dragging around a GIANT, UNCOMFORTABLE collar wrapped tightly around it's neck and getting SHOCKED time, after time, after time, after time is HUMANE..??? Would you do THAT to your children.???

4). Dogs are FAMILY MEMBERS, and "LIKE" our kids, Yes. I agree. I have 2 HUMAN kids of my own, and 2 Pooch Kids. But Dogs are NOT OUR KIDS. They DO NOT go to school, they DO NOT do their homework, they do NOT talk, they do NOT sit at the TABLE when it's time for dinner... Do you walk YOUR kids on a Leash? Do you Spay/Neuter your kids..??? Would you Put a SHOCK-COLLAR on YOUR kid.??? I mean Shoot there are ENOUGH people on earth... WHY would we want to make MORE.???

And finally.... BOTH of my pooch babies (1 Female, 8 years old and 1 Male, 3 years old), were rescued from the shelter. Their previous owners abandoned them BECAUSE They barked.!!! I RESCUED them BECAUSE NO ONE wanted to adopt them BECAUSE they barked.!!!

I got my little girl De-Barked about 6 years ago. I love her to pieces and she sleeps with me each and every day. When we first rescued her, she was almost dead, and weighed in at 19 Lbs, NOT because she was a puppy, but a Rott/Shepherd/Beagle mix. Larger dog who at the time weighed as much as a big CAT. She weighs 55 Lbs now (at a HEALTHY weight, and NOT overweight!). And is healthy and happy. But she was a LOUD Barler, a No-Reason barker, a Just-Because barker.
At first, I tried Training, I tried Bark-Collars, and finally, after paying 3 fines from the Municipality, each for $185.00, I decided to get her De-Barked.
I CRIED a LOT when I had to take her in there. But I can't say ENOUGH about My Vet. He is AWESOME, and they did the "snip" right in front of me, because he KNEW hos emotional I was over the whole thing. He KNEW I did NOT want to do it... So he asked me to stay and hand out thru the surgery.. I was THERE when they did it.!!! They basically opened her mouth, and clipped a piece of skin (when she was asleep)... There was NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING that was RIPPED OUT.!!!!! NOTHING.!!! And NOTHING came out.!!! She KEPT everything IN THERE.!!! (Unlink Spaying and Neutering where they're basically Gutted like fish!) She was able to eat the same evening, and was perfectly normal the next day (after the drugs wore off). She can STILL bark, but it sounds like a person Whispering verses SCREAMING. It's the BEST THING I ever did.!!!!

My little BOY is a SWEET little Beagle, AND.... He is going in tomorrow morning for his De-Bark and his Dew-Claw removal. He has been with us for the past 3 months, until we could get him healthy enough for the anasthetic, and he is ready now.
He was BEATEN and Starved and abused severly before we got him. And he Barks and Whines and HOWLS at EVERYTHING, ALL day, and ALL night. You can't even PET him, or SCRATCH him without him whining and howling. We've had him for 3 months, and already paid 2 fines for his noise.

We OWN our Condo and Can't afford to get a "house" just because our precious dogs BARK! I also can NOT afford to keep paying $185.00 every couple of weeks.!!! And I SURE AS HECK will NOT SHOCK them with Collars and Cruel Contraptions.!!!

What do you guys think...??? Should I have LEFT my babies at the shelter to ROT and be euthanized.???? Maybe THAT would have been a better solution.??? Huh?

*** *** *** *** *** ***
Oh, and FYI. Dogs talk with their BODY-LANGUAGE, NOT with barking.!!! WE (humans) taught them to bark..!!! For it to be OUR advantage!!! (And old-fashined Alarm System)
If you DON'T believe me.??? LOOK IT UP.!!!
Dogs came from WOLVES. EVERY SINGLE BREED..!!! WHEN have you EVER heard a wild Wolf BARK.????
*** *** *** *** *** ***

Oh, and FYI. Dogs talk with their BODY-LANGUAGE, NOT with barking.!!! WE (humans) taught them to bark..!!! For it to be OUR advantage!!! (And old-fashined Alarm System)
If you DON'T believe me.??? LOOK IT UP.!!!
Dogs came from WOLVES. EVERY SINGLE BREED..!!! WHEN have you EVER heard a wild Wolf BARK.????


Actually we did not teach them to bark. They already had vocal cords, and they no how to use them, if we taught them, we would have to teach puppies how to do it. Wolves Howling is a very important form of communication, barking is with dogs. I do not have to look it up, I study dogs. As for comparing wolves to dogs. every human came from a chimp, but humans do not screech oh oh ah ah. your comparison is impractical. dogs growl, bark, moan, yip and all sorts of other vocal noises to communicate.


1). Your dogs are YOUR dogs and you DO OWN THEM...!!! Weather you LIKE IT or NOT.!!! If you don't, you CAN NOT take them to the Vet, you can NOT spay/neuter them, and you SURE AS HECK can NOT bail them out of jail (Pound) if they ever end up there...!!! Look at some paperwork you fill out.! Do you CROSS out the word "OWNER" when you fill out a piece of paper about your dog..??? If you do, you have ISSUES..!!! LOL

yes, legally i own them, but morale i do not.


2). "Spaying and Neutering Prevents more dogs from ending up in Shelters"..... BEAUTIFULLY said..!!! But what about THOSE dogs that Bark and wake up the neighbors and but his owner feels it is INHUMANE to Clip a PIECE OF SKIN at the BACK of the throat to QUIET them down a bit..??? Would YOU get rid of your dog just becasue it BARKED.??? SERIOUSLY.??? If you OWN your home, and because you now have the freedom to do so, you go to the Shelter and RESCUE a dog that was quiet and sweet and needed your love and affection, and after a week at your house he is waking up your kids and getting your neighbors upset and getting the Municipality called on you, and then you are givem warning, and then fines of $180.00 or MORE each WEEK...? WOULD you PAY them..??? Seriously.??? Or WOULD you loose your home and go live somewhere where you REALLY do not want to live simply because the Pooch you rescued feels like barking at the sound of the wind..???

Training, training, training.

5). I have heard SO MANY of you speaking about using SHOCK COLLARS on the dogs to "Train" them not to Bark..... Do you SERIOUSLY believe that a dog dragging around a GIANT, UNCOMFORTABLE collar wrapped tightly around it's neck and getting SHOCKED time, after time, after time, after time is HUMANE..??? Would you do THAT to your children.???

First, off my dogs where these collars, they are not giant, and only weigh a few ounces, and if you buy a good one, they do not have to be wrapped to tight. and as for getting shocked, electronic training is the most aversive training. meaning if a dog barks and does not stop. it is not making the connection to the shock, again training. every dog i have ever put a shock collar on, has barked once bowed it's head and then ceases to bark. some dogs might bark once a day, but then quickly remember. then after a a few months, they associate the collar to barking, so then you can buy a dummy collar that does not shock, but when the collar is on them, they are quiet. That is more humane...do not potray a shock collar that goes off a hundred times a day. that's just now how it is.
and if your goign to use the comparison of placing a shock collar on a child. let's play by the rules, would you clip your kids vocal cords?

4). Dogs are FAMILY MEMBERS, and "LIKE" our kids, Yes. I agree. I have 2 HUMAN kids of my own, and 2 Pooch Kids. But Dogs are NOT OUR KIDS. They DO NOT go to school, they DO NOT do their homework, they do NOT talk, they do NOT sit at the TABLE when it's time for dinner... Do you walk YOUR kids on a Leash? Do you Spay/Neuter your kids..??? Would you Put a SHOCK-COLLAR on YOUR kid.??? I mean Shoot there are ENOUGH people on earth... WHY would we want to make MORE.???


Actually I agree, my dogs are not my kids. they fill a totally different role in my family, but yet they are treated fairly and with respect.

Surgery of any kind to fit into a equation that is selfish, and just out of laziness. is wrong.

***Edited By: gunny on 9/18/2006 11:49:36 PM***
Reason: s

I had a Doberman that was debarked, but the vet didn't completely cut the cords, he punched a hole in them. This brought the timber of the bark down. She actually had a lovely bark after the surgery. Before, it was very sharp and piercing and hurt the ears. And before anyone asks, Yes she was docked and cropped.

By the way, this is a rather old post and I may have responded before. If so, sorry for repeating myself, but I don't have time to read all the pages right now.

lovemypooches,

Are you on glue???

Dogs bark because that is a way for them to communicate. I have two dogs and I see this every day. They make different sounds, which mean different things. My dogs don't need to be in the same room, or looking at eachother to communicate. And I sure as h*ll didn't teach my puppy to bark, how would I do that? Please explain how to teach a dog to bark.


My GSDX was rescued from a shelter. He was brought there because he barked non stop. I trained him. I spent time with him to teach him not to bark constantly.

My beagleX is also a "no reason whatsoever barker". I've never had complaints from neighbors, thats because when she starts barking non stop, I bring her inside. You live in a condo, don't your dogs go inside??

What does Glue have to do with anything?
I can send some your way if you want...

Don't come down on me because I stated my opinion...

Yes, my babes are inside pretty much all the time. THAT is where they Bark and bother the neighbors..! I live in Alaska, and even though one of my dogs is large, I'd never leave her outside for any extended period of time...

Second, I never compared my, or anyone else kids to dogs. Someone ELSE did that. I SAID that I do NOT think that dogs are Kids. I did say that I would never neuter my kids, etc, so the comment on the Clipping of the Vocal cords of my children was completely uncalled for. I would NOT clip their vocal cords, just like I would not Spay/Neuter them... That's just common sense... As I was trying to make a point. Dogs, are NOT kids. Plain and simple.

My Little man (as I call my little Beagle rescue) went in for his surgery at 2pm this afternoon, and was picked up (by me) at 5pm to come home. It is now 8pm, and after he snoozed for about 2 hours, he has gone on a walk (and done his business), and has already happily eaten his dog-food, drank some ice-water, and is now happily playing with our other dog in the living room. There is NO cuts on his throat, NO shaved hair from IV needles, and he is not in any pain. (except a bit of a sore throat). AND, he can still make noise, just not as loud...

If there is Cuts on the throat, stitches, bald-spots from IV needles and other things, well, then OBVIOUSLY, someone needs to seek out another Vet. I LOVE my vet, and I would NEVER trust another with ANY of my babes. The De-Bark (although as I said, Little Man can STILL make noise!), SHOULD (if done correctly) be MUCH LESS invasive and Less painful than a Spay, or a neuter...

And Yes, I DID try training, with BOTH my dogs. The REASON I adopted them, is BECAUSE no one could "fix" the problem...
And FYI, I had 6 different trainers try to work with my girl, ALL of them gave up! :) As I said, the De-Bark was the BEST thing I EVER did.... :)

Yet still not one answered weather or not I SHOULD have left them to die at the Shelter...
It seems to me that no-one really cares about the "dog's" welfare and comfort of living. I think people should stop relating dogs to human beings.

Would a Human MALE be happy with his testes cut off..???
Yet it's a common thing among animals of ALL species.

PLEASE remember that a CORRECTLY performed De-Bark should NOT completely SILENCE a dog, if done CORRECTLY, it should simply SOFTEN the bark, and quiet it down... That's all...

That's all it did for my guys! They can STILL bark and whimper and make noise. They just CAN'T wake up the neighbors...

Yes it is better that they are with you and not at a shelter. But you never answered how you teach a dog to bark.


It is your choice to de bark your dogs, but some of the statements you made are a little off. Good for you in taking dogs in that no one wanted, I'm glad those dogs are in a happy home.

I just disagree with you saying that humans taught dogs to bark, and that dogs only communicate with body language, not noises.

***Edited By: bogle lover on 9/20/2006 1:27:17 AM***
Reason: add

Oh, and just 1 more thing... :)

Human-Evolution = MILLIONS Of years

Dog-Evolution = Thousands of Years


*** HUUUUUGE difference! ***


If you throw a DOG into a Wolf-Pack as a Pup, it WILL grow up as a Wolf, and will NOT bark. It WILL howl, but NOT bark. Dogs Bark because WE, Humans communicate with noise and words. It is programmed into them since birth. You do NOT have to teach your puppy to bark. But if it grows up around people, it WILL more than likely learn to bark.

It's just a simple adjustment. Why is this concept so difficult for people to understand?

Wolves bark actually, not as often but they do bark. They bark to warn the pack of intruders, and to scare of others on their territory. Look it up, wolves bark too.

In a way you are right, dogs bark more because of their living situations. Wolves don't have many people ringing the doorbell or loud noises around them all the time. but both dogs and wolves bark for the same reasons.

Pooches I think it's wonderful that you took these 2 dogs in. After trying many different training methods ,if they don't work and debarking is your last option or paying fines,you did the right thing.I would opt to debark before loosing my dogs.I have 2 barkers ,and tried many training methods,non work. In the house for Tigger ,I have to close all stimuli that she can see out side. If not she becomes insane in the house barking and whining .It's anything that moves.Thank god I don't live someplace where there's a noise ordinance ,I would be in real trouble with her.She would have to be debarked then. I would do it if I had to.

Huge difference yes. Dogs/wolves have stayed pretty much the same, while humans have significantly evolved from apes.

And yes people do get "fixed". Why? Perhaps because they dont want to pass on a certain gene, or dont want to have anymore kids. The same is spaying or neutering an animal.

Most dogs will "get" the shock collars very quickly. It's a conditioned response... I get shocked if I bark... if I dont bark I wont get shocked. If you got repeatedly slapped for raising your hand would you keep raising it???

Did you just adopt these dogs to cut their vocal cords? Great.. since now the perfect dogs behavior better because they cannot bark (which was the reason they werent adopted in the first place) will you feel like a better person when you drop them off when they start doing another bad behavior? Will you chop off their legs because they dig?

A lot you you guys may not know, but I orginate from the UK, and the queston of mutilating animals is just something I can not get my head round.

Why is it that in the USA ppl feel they have to rght to mutilate gods creatures to fit their life styles?

Thankfully the kennel club of great britian woke up to smell the coffee and no longer support tail docking or ear pinning, and no-one there could ever comprehend mutilating a cats feet to save the furniture, or slitting a dogs throat so it does'nt bark.

For a nation of animal lovers some of the practices in the USA are detestable to me.

Tail docking is bad enough.

Declawing is disgusting.

Ear pinning/trimming, well I thought the idea of breeding a dog was to breed the perfect breed standard, if a dogs ears, say a dane, dobie, boxer, etc are'nt perfect naturally, then you dog is'nt perfect, and no amout of mutilation will make it so, so you are mutilating your dog to hide the defect... sorry but thats cheating. Before anyone turns around and says the AKC states it is acceptable... the AKC has been a sell out for years ... recent events have proved that.

As for de-barking this has to be the most inhumane, cruel, disgusting action a dog owner could choose. If you don't want a dog that barks get a Besenji or a plush stuffed toy, but in the name of god stop mutilating his creatures.

Facts:
Some dogs ears are naturally floppy that is the way god made them LEAVE THEM ALONE.

CATS have claws.. don't like it?... DON"T GET A CAT.

DOGS are born with long tails... god created them that way... stop changing gods gift to us.

DOGS BARK... don't like it? DON'T GET A FREAKIN DOG

If all the breeders refused to mutilate their animals the AKC would have to get on board.

You have NO RIGHT TO DESTROY WHAT GOD CREATED.

Declawing is disgusting? Wow that is pretty extreme. Getting a dew claw ripped off running through the field is pretty disgusting too. So is the dew claw nail not being trimmed by some one (because they don't know any better) and having the nail grow in to their leg or foot pad.

Little boys in this country get a certian proceedure done here too that many European countries find disgusting, but I am PERSONALLY thankful for...hahaha.

I don't think declawing is disgusting. Dew claw removal may be better in the long run. But removing all of a cats claws, in my opinion is mean. What if your cat gets out?? How will it defend itself? Or if something chases it, how will it climb?? I think its easier to keep the claws trimmed, and use cat repellant where they are scratching. Or to use soft paws.

As for docking tails, they are three days old, and don't remember it happening. (although I cried when I heard the pups crying). I also wouldn't be able to watch it.

Cropping the ears. It was developed centuries ago to prevent injury. Most dogs that have ears cropped are fighting/hunting/guarding dogs. The ears were cropped so they were no longer easy targets to grab onto. Now a days it is purely cosmetic, but that is how it started. The dogs are knocked out when this is done, and shouldn't have any pain memory because it is usually done in the first 6-9 weeks of age. My in laws Giant Schnauzer has her ears cropped and I did all the bandaging/switching the tape. She would put her head on my lap and let me do it, she was in no pain.

Good points lovemypooches...

I'm beginning to see that there are a lot of folks on here that think our pets are our equals (not everyone here, but I've been reading posts for a few weeks now). It's easy to forget that dogs were domesticated to be human companions... they are property that require proper care, respect, and a knowledgable owner. If someone wants to get their dog debarked because it's causing problems short of getting rid of the dog, that's the owner's decision.