You know, I don't care who comes back or why. The only thing that ever bothers me is when someone takes on 2 personalities at the same time and carries on their very own conversation! Now THAT is annoying!
I can say that I love hte breed becuase I have to make a hard decision to place a dog to continue to breed and not stagnate and not produce.
However, each breeder makes their own decision. I have my program laid out for about 10 years, and that allows me to keep dogs until they pass. I don't like rehoming dogs I've lived with their entire life, espcally bitches who have given me babies. However, sometimes there are dogs who are happier as one household dogs and those dogs I would place, but my greed makes me keep more and plan my breedings out. Thats why I'm collecting my males so that I don't have to worry about missing an opertunity to use them becuase of age.
So I do think that I am responsible, but if someone is to continue a program sometimes they have to let dogs go. Most breeders have a lot of older dogs laying around their homes and make decisions for each one. I have had people ask me if I am intersted in placing both of my boys at a later date as that they would love to have them for companions.
Thats the part that is missed. There are people who LOVE getting ex-show dogs and LOVE getting retired bitches. They are trained, calm, sweet tempered easy going dogs and a joy to live with. They get to skip everything negitive and are often handed an adult dog fully trained in full show coat who is used to travel, people, strange situations, weird places and with a beautiful coat who makes, gasp, a great companion.
So the breeder is horrible? If they use and toss their dogs, then I don't agree with htat. Frankly, you can't pry my dogs out of my hand, but I have THREE people who want one of my boys and one of them is my best friend who finds puppies to be cute but dosent want to do the puppy thing.
Actually, Icy I think you are good person and breeder. I have learned a lot from you. You have a good heart. I am also like your friend. I love dogs but I don't want a puppy. I like their cuteness but that's it. I don't like potty training and the works. I would gladly take an ex show dog. That's why this lady offered her dog to me because she knows I like older dogs. I just don't understand how she could part with her.
You know, seriously, I think it is almost impossible for a breeder to explain to a pet owner why there is a difference here, because as a pet owner you aren't ever going to be able to step fully into the breeder's shoes.
I say this, not to be mean, but because I'm currently in the process of having to re-evaluate my own views on this topic. I personally feel very strongly that pet owners have no business rehoming their PETS for petty reasons that usually are a result of lack of research prior to adopting the dog or laziness on their part as the trainer and care giver (I do know sometimes that there is no other choice than to rehome a dog if a personal issues comes up - and there are exceptions to this rule). As a pet owner I have never rehomed a dog - as a breeder...
Until a year ago I swore I would never rehome a dog as a breeder. I'd make it work somehow. Then Lexie came along. She is a sweet little female that unfortunately had a bad start because her breeder allowed her litter to get a nasty case of Giardia very young, never ran a fecal sample on the litter at any point, used cheap wormer and thus at 9 weeks I had a very sick little puppy that we battled with her health for weeks to get rid of her parasite problem. Due to this reason she never reached a size that would have ever left her as acceptable to safely breed.
My problem - she was so undersized and small that I was watching her have to fight through the other dogs to get attention. She was constantly pushed to the back of the pack and she was NOT happy. She loved me, I loved her, and when we had time just one on one she was great - but any breeder can tell you that with multiple dogs it's easier for everyone if they can enjoy your company in a group - which most do and are very content to share with their brothers and sisters. So after a lot of tears and heartache I chose to rehome Lexie with a family already adopting a male puppy from us that had just lost a previous Sheltie that was very small (so they understood her limitations). They live about 30 minutes from me so about 2 weeks after Lexie went to live with them I went to visit her. She was SO happy. She was excited to see me, but I could already see how closely bonded she was with her new "parents" and you could tell she ruled the roost. 3 weeks later her new little brother came home and I've visited again since then. For Lexie, rehoming her was the best decision I could have made for her.
The difference between a breeder rehoming a dog and a pet owner rehoming a dog - honestly, when I rehomed Lexie it had nothing to do with a defect, a temperament, or training problem. She was 7 months old, housebroken, well groomed, current on all vaccinations and monthly heartworm preventative, knew all her basic obedience commands, and was extremely well socialized. After 2 days of being in her new home the family admitted she was probably better trained than they would have had her at that age because we had made a concious effort to insure she was well trained and socialized (with a large dog household training is key to maintaining order and preventing complete anarchy :). The family probably got a better dog than they would have adopting a puppy.
Icy is right - some people prefer to adopt retired show dogs - and I am on the same page Icy is - I would only place a dog if I knew it was in their best interest. I know, if I plan to keep breeding, I'm going to have to place some of my older dogs after they retire. BUT there are some, that have my heart grasped so tightly in their paws, and we are so closely bonded, that it would kill both of us if I rehomed them. They will stay with me no matter what. A couple of the others, would do better in a home where they can get more one on one attention (I have a 2 1/2 year old female that still hasn't had a heat cycle, and her eyes are too light in color to be shown - I have to soon make that decision as to whether I want to spay and rehome her, or spay and see if she'll make a good obedience prospect).
And truthfully - if ANYONE rehomes a dog because it has health or temperament issues they had better be giving it away to the right home that is willing to deal with the problem. I don't think it's ever okay to pawn off a temperament/training issue dog on someone else unless you make them WELL aware of why you are rehoming the dog and let them decide if they want to take that on.
awww..... how can you not like puppies ? that is the best time of their life. they are so much fun .... and they are a total clean slate and watching them react to all the new things in their life, i wouldnt trade puppyhood for anything else in this world =)
dusty, I never claimed to be someone else. I could but I didn't and even pyrmom wouldn't know about it. LOL Rebel, I came back because I learned a lot from this forum. Lots of knowledgeable people. I don't have to like them and they don't have to like me. If I have a question, someone will have the answer. It's not my problem that pyrmom keeps banning me even though I haven't broken any rules. She'll ban this ID even though I haven't broken any rules. But who cares? I can come back any time I want when I have a question. She doesn't own this website so who cares?
i dont know what your driving at...i get from your other posts your refering to diesel..and her dog...which i didnt read the original post...so...i cant comment on it.. but you mentioned it in trauma mommas post and you think there is a difference.. here is my thought.. I could care less is you get a dog..rehome it..and start over..makes no difference to me...as long as your not looking at one of my pups..The point being..you had hinted that diesels dog was a problem and that was why she wanted to rehome him..all dogs can potentially be problems..so...she gets rid of this one..gets another..and say...it is hard to house break..heck...rehome it..start over...get my drift...this can happen over and over...or it might just be the one occurance..i dont know this person in particular...Now..in breeding things are different...well at least they are to me...your suposed to do things the right way..and be ethical...tramua could have said nothing..and bred her dog any way..but she is trying to do what is right by the breed she loves so very much..and when you love you do things for the sake of that and not your own feelings..I personally feel if a dog doesnt work..or does things i dont tollerate...like too distructive, aggressive, but for breeding there are more things i would rehome them for... As for diesel..I remember when she first came on the site..she had issues..and everyone persuaded her to try again..to try and train..she did..if it didnt work..she did try to make it right..but..she needs to think about the pup and how many times he will be changing hands..when she places him...it has to be the right fit..and she needs to be brutally honest when she talkes to people..and she might not be able to sell him..as that would mean to any one..he has to go to the RIGHT home...so he doesnt go from home to home..but...my estimation...these are two different things...one is from a pet perspective...and one is from a breeders perspective (or potential breeder)...and there is more to consider when breeding...i feel...so...i hope you see my meaning...
i personally would never give any one heck just because they dont want or cant keep a pet...from the russel terriers i have seen i couldnt cope with one..but thats just me...but...the kicker is...do they do it all the time or not...now...im not totally in agreement with that...once or twice is couincadance...more then that...its a pattern...
Hello. I personally do not believe either situation 1 or 2 is acceptable. When you are looking to add a pup to your family that is it, an addition that stays an addition. If someone was unable to care for the pup and for other reasons must place the pup in a better home (allergies, dogs not getting along, biting etc.) then I could understand. As a breeder, I would never replace a dog that I added to my family because he/she has a genetic defect. I would keep the dog as a pet and not a breeder. I read an ad that a lady posted. She wanted to replace her Ch. dog for a low price to another breeder. She claimed she had reasons for replacing him. Then the lady wanted one of the female pups that this Ch dog would sire. Why would you do this? Subtract a dog for you family for "good reasons" then add another pup to your family???? Either way, people should thoroughly think what adding a pup to the family is all about. Just my opinion. Animal shelters are great. I volunteer for one. Great for placing dogs in better homes!
scout, I'll get a puppy if you promise to potty train him, let him out at dawn when he whines and cries in his crate, stop him from chewing my furniture, obedience train him, and play with him constantly. Oh and I would also like you to clean up puddles and other uh-ohs. If you promise to do all these things, I'll take a puppy. Puppies are cute but too much trouble. It works out for me. Many people like puppies and lose interest in them when they are older. I'll take their dogs. Perfect scenario.
lol ..... i have offered to do that for many people ..... i dont mind any of that stuff at all ... not that i particualrily enjoy cleaning up puddles but it is worth it for all the other stuff puppies give.
Huron, I was not judging Trauma Mamma since I am not a breeder. I just wanted to understand why it was ok for her to rehome but not ok for a pet owner. I am the type of person who will not rehome unless I was dying. I really believe some people rehome because they are in over their heads. It's a bad excuse. If you get a dog, you should keep it. Rehoming a problem dog is a disaster waiting to happen. If you can't deal with the problem dog and you have been together long, how can you seriously expect a stranger to deal with it? I can see how a breeder who has been breeding for many years accumulate many dogs over a period of time since dogs can't be bred past 6 o7. I understand the reasoning behind rehoming. I guess it has to be done or you will end up with 20 dogs. For example, poodles can live for 15 yrs. I just don't see how a person can do it. You have lived with the dog for so long. Don't you bond? I also don't get how people can say to a pet owner "oh the dog is attached to you. It's been with your for so long." but turn around and say nothing when a breeder rehomes a 6 yr old dog. I am not trying to make anyone look bad. I am being serious.
I'm not a breeder, so I can't really offer a valid answer to the first scenario. As a pet owner, I personally could not give up a dog that easily, genetic defect or not. I just get too attached. A dog that has a defect or handicap needs extra love, not to be given up on. As for the behavioral problem, I think that is a pathetic excuse to give a dog up (except if it is aggressive and people or other animals are at risk and training won't fix it). I would definitely try training first and give the dog time to adjust. Pet owners should be prepared for things like that before they adopt, and be willing to work on behavioral issues. I've had a few to work on with my girls.
***Edited By: Cinnaeve on 2/1/2006 11:58:43 PM*** Reason: .
No way scout. I have replaced all of the furniture my puppy destroyed. I had the worst puppy in the world. He pooped and peed in his crate. He chewed everything as soon as I turned my back even for just 2 seconds. He dug holes all over my yard. If there was a mud puddle, he was in it. I had carpet in only one room of the house, my den. Well I'll be darned that's where he loved to poop and pee. When he wasn't pooping on the carpet, he was chewing it up. Well I guess since my carpet had poo and pee stains, it had to be replaced anyway. When I finally thought he could be trusted (after leaving him for 10 min then gradually increasing), he tore up my brand new mattress. Oh did I mention he also chewed up my patio furniture, my deck!, my shoes, my cell phone, etc. Let's not even mention what he did to his own things like his expensive dog bed. No thank you, you can save the puppies for someone else. I can just look at their pretty pictures and go hom to my old well-behaved dog! BTW I kept that horrible puppy. Best dog ever now.
Hey scarydog - don't use my posts as a way of excusing your faults. It is obvious that if you have been banned then it is for good reason!! AND next time you need to get your point across leave ME out of your equation!
Um dogs dogs dogs - those are kind of typical puppy behaviors... Depending on the breed, that is probably a very normal, curious puppy who PROBABLY didn't get the training it should have had early on and PROBABLY you didn't establish yourself as the pack leader early on.
Guess what, puppies are work. They are adorable, and sweet and who doesn't like puppy breath. Just like baby human beings they are more work than they are fun - which makes the fun parts more sweet and rewarding.
The wisdom I always share with my puppy families is that what you put into your puppy doing that first year is what you will get back 10 fold over the next 10-15 plus years. You give them a dollar worth of work and time, you'll make 10 back in rewards. You give them 100 dollars, and you'll get 1000 back. If you want a fabulous adult dog as a companion for many years, you have to put up with and work through that first messy, smelly, trying year.
And if you leave your cell phone where the dog can get it - isn't it YOUR fault if they chew it up. They don't understand that cell phones aren't toys...
Abbylynne, I have a GSD. I did take him to obedience class when he was 4 months old. I continue to train him today or he will forget. If you ever had a german shepherd you would know they stay puppies for a long time (longer than most breeds). FYI my cell phone was on my kitchen counter. Maybe your shelties can't reach your counters but a GSD puppy can do it with ease. I crate trained him, I took him outside, waited till he did numbers 1 and 2, rewarded him, praised him, came inside, and he poops. I knew he did all these things because he was young and didn't know any better. I worked with him and now he is the most wonderful dog. Everyone wants to take him home. I tell everyone he didn't come this way. I never rehomed him. Ask the shelters and they will tell you that GSDs are dumped during their puppy stage because they are hard to handle. Maybe your puppies are perfect but mine never were. BTW I think you misunderstood me. I said I prefer older dogs versus puppies because they are less work. I had a puppy when I first moved out but now I learned my lesson and I would rather adopt an older dog. I see nothing wrong with that. I never rehomed my problematic puppy. He will stay with me till the day he dies. I will never part with him. I boarded him for 3 days one time and he went crazy, literally. It took him about a week to readjust when he came home. I know he will die of a broken heart as will I. Also, he has allergy problems. It would take an angel to adopt an old dog with allergies. A puppy with allergies is one thing but an old dog......