ok everyone i need a little more help!!!!! can anyone give me some hard facts on the white dobe (albino dobe)? theres this website i went to the other day and i found 2 litters that are due at the end of march, but one of them are white dobe's and the other are red and rust. the white (albino) dobes are like 100 more and come with a 10 yr garuntee. the past puppies look really nice and she has like 2 pages talkin about the white doberman how some of the problems that are said to be are really not there. she also says that she cant any doc. that show the problem. so if any one can help me pick this pup or not i would love it thanx.
p.s. my search is almost over.....or is it!!!!!!!!!!!
well first of all i know alot about the breed. thank you very much!!!!!!!! second of all i learned everything on the standard doberman not the white doberman or albino!! i ask for help not for someone to just go crazy about the subject.
White Doberman Information At the current time, there is much controversy over the so-called White Doberman. Originally, I believed all the REALLY BAD STUFF that I had been told about them, since it came primarily from the D.P.C.A. (Doberman Pinscher Club of America), the Parent Club of the breed.
The D.P.C.A. has instituted "Operation White-Out", a presumably educational campaign to educate the public about the White Doberman. Unfortunately, their Facts consist mostly of the opinions of their members as far as anything actually being wrong with these dogs.
AND... The D.P.C.A. has intentionally attempted to DECIEVE both the A.K.C. and the general public about these dogs! Check out "Debunking the D.P.C.A."!
Before going any further, here are some FACTS about these dogs that I donít think anyone will dispute;
"White" Dobermans are not actually white. They are any shade of cream to Ivory, with WHITE markings and blue eyes. They are not albinos in the truest sense of the word, although they do exhibit some albinoid characteristics. (A true albino in unpigmented. White Dobermans do have pigment, but they have a reduced amount of pigment. They do not look white due to a lack of pigment as is the case with a true albino; they look white because they have white pigment.) Many white Dobermans do not have the proper Doberman temperament, due to excessive inbreeding done by those caring more about producing dogs they can sell for alot of money more than they care about the happiness and well-being of the person paying for the dog, or about breeding for a Proper Doberman temperament. These are unscrupulous people that should not be breeding dogs or any other animals. White Dobermans with proper temperaments do exist. White is considered an unaccepted color in the breed, and white Dobermans are not allowed to be shown in the A.K.C. breed ring. (There are OTHER registries that do allow for whites to be shown in conformation!) They can be competed in any and all other A.K.C. dog-events!!! (Including the Canine Good Citizenship Program, Obedience, Tracking, Schutzhund, Ring Sport, Flyball, Agility, Temperament Testing Program, etc.) White Dobermans are not exempt from the health problems affecting Dobermans of any other color variety. The D.P.C.A. claims white to be an undesirable color because these dogs were originally used as night guards and can be too easily seen in the dark. Fawns are accepted, and some whites are actually darker than some fawns! Additionally, as "Working Dogs," Dobermans are used for tracking and rescue work, and in these situations, there are definite benefits to being able to see them in the dark!
Sadly, this is a very short list!
The D.P.C.A. and many other anti-white Doberman activists maintain that these dogs suffer severe temperament and health problems not seen in the Black, red, blue or fawn members of the breed.
In looking at this logically, rather than emotionally, it seems obvious to me that the temperament failings of many white Dobermans have nothing to do with their color. The inbreeding done to keep the color at the expense of the more important traits (that make this breed what it is) is what is at fault here! It is the fault of the breeders, and not a function of the color of the dogs!
The D.P.C.A. maintains that " The original purpose of our breed was that of a working sentry dog to accompany their masters on their rounds at night. White is readily seen, thereby destroying the element of surprise and impairing the dog's ability to do it's work." This is a fallacy. The job of a sentry is to sound an alarm. Reguardless of the color of a sentry dog, the enemy would have to approach and overcome both the man and the dog simultaneously in order to prevent the job of the sentry from being performed. Additionally, sentry duty is not just a night time job. If anyone believes that camoflague of a sentry dog is of such importance that dark colored Dogs should be used at night, then perhaps they would also believe that whites would be preferable in the daytime, especially in snowy conditions, and that fawn Dobermans should be used in desert conditions, or on beaches.
As for the health issues, it has been claimed that white Dobermans are photosensitive/photophobic because some squint in bright sunlight. Well, hey, all you blue-eyed humans out there - Do you squint in bright sunlight? Does this cause you pain? These claims have been countered by "pro-white Doberman" people by having their dogs CERF certified. CERF certification verifies normal vision and occular structure, as well as that no retinal disease exists. It does not indicate a lack of photosensitivity/photophobia. However, a thorough eye exam from a qualified veterinary opthamologist can prove that a dog is not photosensitive/photophobic, and appropriate veterinary documentation can be provided. There was, at one time, concern that white Dobermans may be deaf, but BAER testing by "pro-whiters" has proven this not to be the case.
There are claims being made that White Dobermans are more prone to sunburn and skin cancer than Dobermans of other colors. I have repeatedly requested and searched for DOCUMENTATION of this, but so far, I have been unable to locate any. Let me also point out here that I live in GEORGIA. My Dobermans are indoor/outdoor, mostly outdoor, and we have NEVER had a white with sunburn, cancer, or any other sun or light related problem.
Many of the "Pro-white Doberman" people claim that the whites are healthier than Dobermans of other colors - not actually because of their color, but because responsible breeders of white Dobermans are using Health as a basis for their breeding programs. They feel that since they canít breed for the show ring, they might as well bred for something that will make their dogs better and more desirable. The D.P.C.A. (or at least some of their members) maintain(s) that since these dogs can not be shown, why breed them? (And why would anyone want them?)
Less than 2% (I have also been told less than 1%, but I am going to play it safe here, okay-) of all purebred dogs are ever shown, but people keep them! People keep mixed breeds as well, and love them for themselves - not because of their pedigree. MOST people do not show their dogs. Many, (if not most) breeds have unacceptable colors, but only the white Dobermans are being met with unyeilding bias and predjudice due to their color. Why would anybody want them? This, to me, is an absurd question! People want all sorts of things. If someone wants a Doberman, they should be allowed to have one of any color they choose without being condemned for their choice!
People own and love many "unacceptable" colors of many different breeds of dogs! Some examples of this are white German Shepherd Dogs, Red Rottweilers, Blue Weimeraners, Particolor(or phantom) Poodles, Color-headed Shelties (color-headed collies are okay), Boston and Merle Great Danes, and many, many others. People want them. Thatís what matters, so it is up to the breeders to produce GOOD ones - Healthy, stable White Dobermans, exactly the same as any other HEALTHY, STABLE DOBERMAN OF AN ACCEPTABLE COLOR.
I am of the opinion that before taking anyoneís word on whether or not these Dobermans are inferior for any reason, GO SEE SOME!!! Ask the owner what (if any) genetic health screening their dogs have been through and ask to SEE the DOCUMENTATION! Ask for their Veterinarianís telephone number, call the vet, and ask about the dogs! These are good things to do before purchasing ANY dog! Most veterinarians like dogs, not for their breed, color, cash value, or liklihood of obtaining a championship, but just for themselves. Veterinarians are not likely to be biased either for or against White Dobermans. Ask them about the Health issues. They will know more than D.P.C.A. members, many of whom have never even seen a white Doberman (but who are doing everything in their power to eliminate this color from the Doberman gene pool).
Should you own a white Doberman? I don't know, should you? Do you want a Doberman? Do you think the white Dobes are as pretty as the other colors? Prettier? Did you do your homework and ask your vet about the health issues affecting the breed? Are you comfortable owning a dog some believe to be inferior? If the answers to these questions are "Yes!" then perhaps you should own a white Doberman!
There are at least 3 white Dobermans (Mousethatroared von Ernest CD, Kasper Blanco Schnepp CD and Warrior's Magic CD I beleive are their names - I only know one of them personally - with obedience titles and I don't know how many white-factoreds. On 9/21/02, CH Murray's Maximum Security CGC, a w/f Black/rust male, became the first (NKC) CH w/f! H was bred by Carol Bamburger and is owned by Gina Aubrey.
Below is a list of White, White-factored and non-factored "Z" designated Dobermans bred by Whispering Woods Kennel and/or owned by Whispering Woods Kennel.
~*~Phantom's Starlight TT CGC (Star) vWD Carrier, Thyroid normal T3, T4 and TSH. w/f Black/rust female born 8/3/93. Sire; Phantom's Buckin' The Blues Dam; Patches Star Schaliko
~*~Phantom's Wish Upon A Star CGC (Jojo) vWD Carrier, Thyroid normal T3, T4 and TSH. w/f Black/rust female born 8/3/93. Sire; Phantom's Buckin' The Blues Dam; Patches Star Schaliko
~*~Phantom's Southern Belle CGC (Bella) vWD Clear, Thyroid normal T3, T4 and TSH. Fawn/rust female born 7/14/94 Sire; Zack XXXVII Dam; Phantom's Starbright
~*~Phantom's Ragtime White TT CGC (Krystle) Thyroid normal T3, T4 and TSH. White female born 7/27/94. Sire; Phantom's Ragtime Solo Dam; Phantom's Wish upon A Star
~*~Phantom's Scrimshaw OFA CHS CERF CGC (Shawn) Thyroid normal T3, T4 and TSH. White male born 7/27/94. Sire; Phantom's Ragtime Solo Dam; Phantom's Wish upon A Star
~*~Phantom's Prodigy BH TT CGC, OFA (Drizzt) vWD Carrier, Thyroid normal T3, T4 and TSH. White male born 1/31/95. Sire; Krystal Palace's Darango Dam; Phantom's Wish Upon A Star
~*~Phantom's U.S. Blues TT CGC, OFA (Flint) vWD Carrier, Thyroid normal T3, T4 and TSH. w/f Blue/rust male born 12/6/95. Sire; Iceman's Renegade Warrior Dam; Phantom's Sugar And Spice
~*~Phantom's Weisserblitzen CGC (Blitzy) White female born 4/12/96. Sire; Krystal Palace's Cameo Dam; Phantom's Wish Upon A Star
~*~Phantom's Dark Magician CGC, OFA (Magic) vWD Carrier, Thyroid normal T3, T4 and TSH. w/f Black/rust male born 4/1/97. Sire; Krystal Palace's Cameo Dam; Phantom's Starlight TT CGC
~*~Phantom's April Fool NA BAD (Rilla) w/f red/rust female born 4/1/97. Sire; Krystal Palace's Cameo Dam; Phantom's Starlight TT CGC Owned by Ruthie Miller
~*~Phantom's Traveling Man CGC, OFA (Travis) vWD carrier, Thyroid normal T3, T4 and TSH. Black/rust male born 8/21/97. Sire; Drachen's A Fool 'N' My Money CGC Dam; Phantom's Wish Upon A Star
~*~Phantom's Midnight Thunder CGC (Thunder) Black/rust male born 8/21/97. Sire; Drachen's A Fool 'N' My Money CGC Dam; Phantom's Wish Upon A Star
~*~Phantom's Flaxen Lass CGC (Flaxen) vWD Carrier, Thyroid normal T3, T4 and TSH. White female born 10/4/97. Sire; Krystal Palace's Cameo Dam; Phantom's Starlight TT CGC
~*~Phantom's Midnight Blue CGC (Blue) w/f Blue/rust female born 10/25/98. Sire; Phantom's Pink Floyd Brewer Dam; Phantom's Southern Belle CGC
~*~Phantom's Blueprint CGC (Blueprint) w/f Blue/rust male born 9/21/99. Sire; Phantom's Winter Solstice, OFA Dam; Phantom's Southern Belle CGC
~*~Phantom's Midieval Adventure CGC (Joust) White male born 6/22/99 Sire; Phantom's Prodigy BH TT CGC, OGA Dam; Phantom's Dobie Girl v Natac
~*~Phantom's Lasting Impression CGC (Image) White male born 5/21/00 Sire; Phantom's Alaska Ice Storm Dam; Phantom's Alaska Glacier Ice
~*~Alaska's Earthquake CGC ('Quake) White male born 6/20/99 Sire; Phantom's U.S. Blues CGC TT, OFA Dam; Phantom's Alaska Glacier Ice
~*~Phantom's Silver Belle CGC (Belle) White female born 1/28/01 Sire; Alaska's Earthquake CGC Dam; Phantom's Southern Cameo
~*~Phantom's Mateo Ki CGC (Mateo) White male born 3/28/99 Sire; Krystal Palace's Cameo Dam; Phantom's Dreams Come True
~*~Phantom's Cicily Sky CGC, (Cicily) vWD carrier, CERF, MSU Thyroid normal White female born 8/20/00 Sire; Phantom's Blueprint CGC, OFA Dam: Phantom's Ragtime White CGC TT
~*~Phantom's Dreams Come True CGC (Copper) vWD clear, Thyroid normal T3, T4 and TSH. W/f Black/rust female born 8/21/97. Sire; Drachen's A Fool 'N' My Money CGC Dam; Phantom's Wish Upon A Star CGC
~*~Phantom's Ice Dancer CGC, (Flurry) vWD clear, Thyroid normal T3, T4 and TSH. White female born 3/28/99 Sire; Krystal Palace's Cameo Dam; Phantom's Dreams Come True CGC
rebuttal that then may i will listen to you!!!!!!!!!!!!
In November 1976, a mutation occurred with the whelping of a cream colored Doberman.
Her sire, dam, and litter-mates were normal colored black and tans. She had pale blue eyes, pink nose, eye rims, pads and membranes. Where tan markings would be they were Albino.
She was bred to a dominant black male, producing 14 black and tan pups. A male and female were kept and all ran loose. Her son sired her next litter, which contained 2 Albino males. He was also bred to his sister and her litter contained 2 Albino bitches. Later, these Albinos were bred together producing all Albinos.
These dogs have been highly inbred and have multiplied at an enormous rate, and unfortunately they are being bred into our top show lines.
While we can readily identify an Albino, we cannot detect the mutant gene which is carried by a great many of our normal colored dogs.
It has been proven that the Albino mutation is not related to our dilution genes (blue and fawn).
In 1982, the AKC approved the DPCA's amendment to the Doberman standard disqualifying "dogs not of an allowed color."
This prevented the Albino's from being shown in the conformation ring, but unfortunately does not stop the continued breeding of these mutant Dobermans. The AKC had refused DPCA's request to cancel any registration of Albino Dobermans.
The DPCA employed the services of several noted geneticists, vets, and color experts as well as purchasing 2 Albino bitches for test breedings. They also conducted many scientific studies of hair, skin and eyes by professionals at leading universities.
The results after a five-year study conducted by the DPCA and its consultants, concluded these mutants were correctly termed, "albino or tyrosine positive, partial albino or tyrosine negative which suffer from hypo-melanocytic disease. It is important to note here that partial albinos are still albinos.
Albinism is a deleterious mutation which affects the whole body.
Why does the DPCA reject the Albino?
We know that these dogs are photophobic, (sensitive to sun light). They have vision problems resulting from abnormal development of the retina.
They are prone to skin cancer and skin lesions. Due to the lack of pigment, they are extremely susceptible to skin damage from the sun.
Poor temperament is a significant concern. Due to the intense inbreeding to obtain the mutation, the temperaments on a great many are totally unstable. These problems range from fear biting to outright vicious attacks. Shyness is prevalent. Most are not suitable for homes with small children. Yes, there are exceptions, but hardly enough to make them acceptable to most families.
In addition to the above problems concerning health and temperament, these dogs have a total lack of breed type.
There is dialog currently between the DPCA and the American Kennel Club to impose a breeding restriction on the Albinos. They would still be registered, but would have the same restrictions as an ILP registered dog. Owners would not be allowed to register any progeny of the Albinos.
While negotiations continue, the DPCA is utilizing a tracking system, call The "Z" List. This tracking system identifies any dogs that may carry this mutant gene. It enables ethical breeders to avoid breeding to animals with the defect.
While we can understand the attachment one can have for animals of all colors, sizes, shapes and pedigreed or not, we must realize that the Doberman Pinscher was a breed created for a purpose.
A standard of excellence was drawn up describing what the ideal Doberman should look like, how it should act, and what colors it should be. Albino cannot be classified as a color. It is just the opposite. It is the lack of color.
No recognized standard would call for a dog that is Albinoid. It is a genetic defect in all creatures.
Just the fact that she is charging $100 more for a white doberman should say something to you. Charge more for a dog that doesn't even fit the breed standard? Why? She's in it for the money, and there's a sucker born every minute. Don't fall for it.
Uh the white doberman IS an albino. It's a type of albino. In direct contrast to whawt you posted said, most human albinos do have blue eyes.. but they are still albinos, they lack pigmentation. The other dog breeds you list that talk about different colors that are unaccetpable by the breed standard.. this is NOT the same. Because those dogs have the same health over all as another dog. A white German Shepherd or pomeranian or whatever is not the same at all as as white doberman, becuse the white in those breeds is not from albinism. Those dogs still have pigment, often they have spotchy skin, dark eyes and/or noses. Albinism in ANY species is not normal, it is a deleterious gene that comes iwth a host of bad ill effects, including photo sensitivity and vastly increased risk of skin cancer.
A 10 year guarantee is amaznig, since few white dobes live past 7 years :P I'd NEVER EVER recommend you buy a doberman from someone who breeds/sells/supports white dobermans, the color is an abberation, and is NOT normal.
Here's a link to the most comprehensive site there is on whtie dobermans.. and it's run by someone who owns 2 white dobes, so I think they know what they're talking about.
And while the CGC title is an official title given by the AKC, all it is is a title that shows your dog knows how to act in public around other people and other dogs. It is not what I'd consider a true performance title like an obedience title or Agility or tracking or anything else.
white is not an acceptable color by the AKC standards. Sure they are pretty, but they are NO MORE healthy that the black and tans or the rust colored ones. White is worth NO MORE than the other colors-actually worth less money because it deviates from the breed standard. Dogs closest to breed standard should cost more than the ones that do not.
If you would like me to give you some web addresses of some breeders I've heard of who breed for working dogs, or show dogs, etc. Give me your e-mail and I will send you the sites so you can check them out.
***Edited By: doxielover1 on 3/6/2006 1:39:46 PM*** Reason: add
no problem. Just be very careful, becuase with a breed like dobermans when they've already been overbred and do have a lot of health issues, there's no sense in getting a puppy that's going to be even worse off from day one because it suffers from albinism, which is a very much preventable disorder :P I've also heard of white dobes passing through rescue down here, and the word 'psychotic' was used in reference to them. They apparently have nothing resembling the temperament of other dobermans, which in general are sweet, loyal and affectionate.
How did I go insane? You are nutz. You come onhere whining you can't find one so you want to look at whites?! thats insane. Like I said, you know nothing about dobes if you do not have any albino knowledge.
XTX, where are you located? My girlfriend that does Dobe rescue just brought in 4 new rescue dobes. One is a female (2ish) who is small...but total ALPHA. She must go to a home where she'll be the only dog and no small dogs or young children. She's not had the best of life. She's underweight and was kept chained up. She's a perfectly lovely dog and sweet as can be with her people, but is causing a bit of a fuss with my friend's other Dobes as she want's to rule the roost and will not back down.
Her name is Hayley and she is a PERFECT candidate for Schutzhund training. My friend does not ship so you'd have to come her to get the dog. If you want more info, please feel free to email me at firstname.lastname@example.org
well thanx for everyones feed back on the albino dobe your guyz have been very helpful and jonce im not whining!!! i came to this website in search for help theres a diffrence. cockerlover one of the dobes you pulled her name is rita and we did look into her. thank you for your help in finding me one.
we took our husky do the resuce and they did not get along what so ever. they were havin a good time for a little bit but then after 10 min. they started barkin at one another and rita snaped at him then he snaped at her so i pulled him out and that was that.
well i think ive decided not to get a white dobe! everyone has given me tons and tons of facts to go off of. i will cont. my search.