Part of breeding is understanding how it works. Too many people just stick two dogs together without understanding what they are doing and the "science" behind it.
As I said above, there is absolutely no reason to breed consecutive days because sperm is viable for about 72 hours. Therefore, breeding every day is silly. It doesn't increase your odds of getting pregnant and it won't give you a bigger litter. (The litter size is determined by the female. She normally ovulates 1 1/4 times as many eggs as she will fertilize. On that same note, sex is determined by the male. So if you get a whole litter of male puppies and wanted females you can blame the sire :) :)
And it's not a matter of pleasing me :) - it's a matter if understand the WHY behind what you're doing. It's a BIG red flag for me that the breeder hasn't done a lot of homework when you see them breeding consecutive days.
And actually, if the stud is a young male, over breeding can cause him to become sterile. So it CAN hurt the stud dog by breeding every day.
You (well the stud really :) can also really bruise the females vulva - so there isn't much of a reason to put her through being bred consecutive days if she doesn't need to be (because you're throwing in a breeding that doesn't even really matter - you could not do the second breeding at all and it wouldn't make any difference to your odds of conception).
Because I would hope that part of the reason people come on this forum is to learn things... I know that is why I come here. I don't come here just so that I can ask questions I already know the answers to. I thought it would be legitimately useful to the OP to understand the "science" behind breeding and that breeding consecutive days was pointless.
Why do people who obviously have something to learn get so annoyed when others point out that there is a better way to do things based on facts?
And I wasn't lecturing so much as I was pointing out the reason WHY this is unnecessary.
Abbylynne- I like you and I don't want to argue. I just disagree with some of the stuff you are saying :) I have never heard that over breeding a young male will cause him to become sterile. How young are you talking? In the wild/nature or even in farm settings males often breed many many females just fine. And yes I know that is not domesticated dogs, but really. It seems like if a male of any species was incapable of physically mating with many females if needed they would be in trouble.
Same for bitches. Not saying it is 'great' for them but how many stray bitches are bred by MULTIPLE dogs of varying size even probably on the SAME day. Let alone several days in a row.
Yes there is only x number of eggs to be fertilized in the female, but the more sperm that is in there the higher chance that all will be fertilized. If you only get one breeding the sperm may not fertilize all of the eggs.
Hi everyone!! Good luck on the breeding with your pugs! My bulldogge finally finished her cycle 10 days after the first breeding. She is doing well and I have an appt next friday for the palpatation. Fingers crossed!!
I realize that eveyone who has bred has been told a method to breed. I just followed the advice of experienced breeders in my area that coached us through. I will post with updates when I get them..
I think I am at the same day almost as you. This is the tenth day after my bitch mated for the first time, there was a lot of bleeding afterwards and no tie. Bleeding died down to normal season and she tied twice after this. She is still spotting, but today only just a smear, hardly anything but a very dark in colour.
I am also concerned about the bleeding so long afterwards. Sue
Alicat - The overbreeding on a young stud thing is something I read in two of my Sheltie books (one written by a lady who bred Shelties for over 20 years and it's been contributed to by over 20 other Sheltie breeders and is considered the top book for the breed). I'm talking a stud that is under 2 years old though.
And I didn't say it was going to kill the female to be bred everyday - but it's certainly not going to be comfortable for her. Some girls are "sluts" :) and they are more than willing to breed every day. I'd NEVER do it to my own females as they don't particularly care to be bred in the first place and when they are black and blue they generally only cooperate because I ask them to.
And yes, I realize more sperm means a higher chance of conception - but unless your male has a low sperm count, there should be plenty of sperm in one breeding. That sperm is still in there swimming around the next day - so there isn't any reason TO breed consecutive days. In fact, it takes 36 hours for his full sperm count to rebuild, so all you're doing is giving him less to work with on the third breeding...
It's not a preference of methods. It's understanding the science behind breeding. I have a girl that on a previous litter I only got bred once. She had 8 puppies - which is a HUGE litter for a Sheltie. Trust me, more breedings is not going to mean more puppies. In fact, the one tie was only for 10 minutes...
I wasn't talking about what CAN be done - I'm talking about what is best for the dogs. Yes, the female COULD be bred over and over and over in her cycle, multiple times a day, every day for her full period of acceptance. Is she going to die? Probably not (unless the she and the male have a bad die and start tearing at each other). Is there ANY point to doing it? NOPE. It just shows that the breeder doesn't understand how breeding REALLY works.
And I don't care what dogs in the wild are doing... Not really all that applicable to the situation. The OP is striving to become a breeder. I have a problem with the fact that they don't fully understand the canine "heat" cycle, or the science behind breeding before they started breeding. If you can't get a firm grasp on that, whelping and raising puppies should be interesting... And I don't know enough about the stud owner as a breeder (other than their "breeding" practices) to make a judgement call as to whether they are knowledgable. I am assuming based on the breeding practices that they aren't. The title breeder never implies quality. I know a lady whose been breeding for 15 years and breeds her bitches every single heat cycle from the time they are 1 year old until they are 8-9 years old. It may work for her - but I think everyone here can agree that it's not a good idea.
And Alicat - I do see what you're saying. I just don't agree that there is an excuse. I try really hard not to spout off stuff that I can't verify from reference material of some sort or from practical experiences.
abbylynne you are absolutely correct in everything you have stated about sperm living for 72 hours, the sperm counts and it being unnecessary to breed every day. every other day is more then sufficient.
it amazes me when clients come in for pregnancy tests and are shocked when the test is negative. a little deeper investigation usually reveals missing the correct days, using a male who has just bred multiple females in the same time frame, etc.
Sue- I was too but I thought back to her other heats and they lasted a while so after 10 days it did stop. YOu can always talk to your vet and have her checked. I have been twice just cause I am overly paranoid and want the best care for my baby girl. I have an appt next friday to see if we are expecting and I am so excited and so nervous too!!
Hopefully she is ok and good luck on having a heathy litter!! Oh by the way what is her breed Sue?
So, the main question is how long should they bleed after mating? Has this really been answered?
My little girl is still bleeding heavily but it's really watery, thin. This is day 3 after her last tie. Her first heat cycle's bleeding lasted 3 weeks and died off with a dark, thickness to it. So, this is definitely different. I am just curious how about others experiences.
abbeyJaye, my girl lasted 10 days after her first mating. So if it has only 3 days I would not worry at all. As long as it isnt more bleeding than her average cycle and no other symptoms are noticible, it isnt abnormal. You can always talk to your Vet as well.
Sue, I am not sure when you can do the hormone test but I have heard people having mixed reviews since they can have a false reading and the bitch actually be pregnant. Let us know if you do decide to use it. I would be curious to know if works for you.
I believe the test can be done around 28 days after the first breeding. I have only done it once and it came back negative. 5 weeks later I got 4 healthy puppies from the bitch - so I haven't tried it since.
They are officially in heat for about 3 weeks. Some females bleed through the entire cycle. Some bleed until they are receptive for mating. Some have "silent" or "white" heats and never bleed at all. It doesn't matter if they are bred or not - their cycle still lasts the same length of time.
Also wanted to add - palpating should NOT be done by a novice. You can actually cause harm by palpating too hard or incorrectly. Even some vets can't palpate well Your best bet is to treat the dog like she's pregnant (food, supplements, and care wise) and have an X-ray done around 8 weeks into her pregnancy. Usually by this time you can tell anyway, unless she's only have 1-2 puppies. I believe an ultra sound can be done sooner, but I just have my girls X-rayed as it gives you more information than an ultra sound (number of puppies in a close approximation, size of puppies, whether they are small enough to get through the pelvis, and depending on the calcification of the skeletons you can even get an idea of when the bitch will be most likely to deliver - whether she'll go over her due date or deliver early - assuming your vet knows how to read an X-ray on an expectant mother).