for those of you who have breeds where cropping of the ears is in the show standard ...... if this does become illegal is there a standard for what an uncropped ear is supposed to look like ? how big ... where it is set on the head ? would ears be excluded being judged in the show ring until people can breed the right type of ear or is that something that is done now even though they are cropped ?
Hi Scout- ******************* This is from the AKC boxer standard-
Ears Set at the highest points of the sides of the skull, the ears are customarily cropped, cut rather long and tapering, and raised when alert. If uncropped, the ears should be of moderate size, thin, lying flat and close to the cheeks in repose, but falling forward with a definite crease when alert.
********************* I there are only a handful of serious show people even attempting to take their boxers uncropped in to the ring. It will be a while, even if a few states ban cropping it will not go national for a long time. Too many dog enthusists and breed clubs would be against it.
Ruby - I've seen an Aussie work and they dart right into the cattle. That's where the risk comes in. They don't just skirt around the edges of the herd and wait for the cows to move. They get right in there and start nipping at their heels.
Show Aussie's aren't supposed to JUST be about being pretty. The show dog is supposed to be able to do their job - the structure is supposed to be perfect to allow them to. And again - how is a breeder supposed to be able to tell at 3-5 days of age which puppy is going to be a show dog, a working dog, or just a pet?
Actually, two of my Dad's Aussies were purchased from a breeder who both shows and uses their Aussie's to move cattle. Sometimes they do both. She also does Agility with them. That's part of why he liked their lines - they are genetically able to do it all. One of his females is trained to herd and has gone out for fun a couple of times with some sheep and she had a blast and did really well. Her dam is apparently a bear with calves/small cows and has no problem flipping a calf if it's not doing what she wants - and she's a small Aussie female.
I think sometimes people forget that these dogs (hunting and herding) aren't supposed to JUST be pets. They were bred with a job in mind. Aussies aren't the only ones with docked tails. One of the Corgi's also have docked tails (I'm pretty sure they aren't natural bobs - correct me if I'm wrong). When you consider that mindset - dogs weren't anything "by nature". These breeds were created by humans - for a reason. And it wasn't just to be cute. I would never use a breed who is ONLY breeding to produce cute pet puppies. I want a breeder who understands why the breed even exists and what a good example of that breed includes on every level. Part of that is understanding their function and how correct structure plays into that.
And I do stand corrected - Aussies were first bred to herd sheep - but have always been used as cattle dogs as well.
I think it should be a breeder's choice in part with owners choice on cropping and docking. I am quite glad my cocker is docked. Ad if I ever were to get a purebred dobe pup I'd want cropped ears. But I am aware of how much effort it takes to get them to stand, and how much worse they look if they flop.
I know someone with what was a crappy breeder's show prospect dane with cropped ears that he didn't care for correctly.. The dog is cute. The ears not so much. A carefully done crop looks awesome. But it's a lot more care than most people realize..
That was interesting, thanks Abby. I wouldn't have thought that aussies would mix amongst the cattle and nip at the heels, I did research the breed but have never stumbled upon that information. I know that the australian cattle dog nips the cattle's heel but would not have imagined the aussie to be doing that.
Do you have any photos of either your aussies or your dad's??
Ruby - I don't raise Aussies - my Dad does, but I raise Shelties and while Dad has always been more concerned with the function of a dog I am the one who helped him figure out the color genetics and made him get their CERF and OFA clearances :) (I'm a nag, what can I say...).
I also handle his website for him (since he isn't much of a computer person). I do have some pictures of them. I'll try and get them put into a photo bucket or dogster page in the next few days if I remember. I don't even have the website all the way finished yet! :)
If dogs are born with a tail and a set of ears then leave them well ALONE!!!!!!!
All I hear is excuses about dogs getting their tails broken or caught in different places, that is just bull dung; I know this happens occasionally but then why don't we chop their legs off cause there is a likelihood that they may hurt their legs or get kicked by a premenstrual cow and while we are at it let's make sure that there is no such thing as an entire male dog at work cause he may end up with a nasty kick on his nuts by an angry bull that didn't get any the night before, rolmao.
If it aint broken then it dont need fixin!!!!
As for show people that have their knickers in a knot, chill chill boys and girls, time to move with the times and rephrase the age old standard.
The only thing I am going to say to this post is this. To each is own. If you want your dogs ears cropped have them cropped. It you want you puppies tail docked have them docked. Valen my 8 week old Corso who has a docked tail and dewclaws removed will have her ears cropped on May 22nd. I will post pics for all to see.
Mafia...I'll reserve the bed next to you as I will need my foot docked, as I am sure to get it lodged somewhere soon!
The point being, we all have our own opinions and expressing them is what the forum is about. Though doing it with tact is a key, and a person coming here out of the blue with a serious attitude rather than making their simple point politely is expected not to get great reactions.
I will continue to keep my "knickers in a knot' and continue to dock the tails of my pups, and crop the ears of my show dogs.
Being an uneducated dog owner.... if you even like dogs for that matter... Dewclaws and tails are done when they are 1-3 days old. They do not have any nerves in this area..... thus not feeling a thing.
If ears are done... they are a whole hell of alot painful then getting spayed or neutered.... or are you against that as well?
Merico - you missed his point about the "balls" didn't you... I think the newbie (troll...cough cough) has a problem with us taking care of our dogs well being all together...
I'd love to argue with them, but it would be pointless as the educated people already understand my point and can form their opinion on the matter from there...
And while we're at it, why don't we stop handing out antibiotics to sick people and we can go back to dying from pneunomia... Aw heck, let's stop vaccinating people and animals and see how much fun rabies, and measles, and polio are...
Abbylynne where do you get off by putting words in my mouth hum? No need for any additions and for your information, yea I do believe in desexing for obvious reasons as there's enough animals being destroyed every day as it is!! I was talking about cropping and docking, nothing else. Got the point now? lol.
Talking about vaccinations, do you have the slightest idea how many babies are rendered brain damaged because of having a reaction to vaccines? bet you didn't know that one. I believe in having dogs done but not human babies and I don't believe in having dogs vaccinated for every year of their life either and for those that have researched animal welfare then you will know what I mean by that!
***Edited By: Lollie on 5/15/2006 1:00:13 AM*** Reason: added