Thanks for the advice Abbylynne. Rily I am satisfied with Purina, sorry. I feed 5 suppliments, vitamins, raw meat, eggs, and cheese. My dogs are getting every thing they need and probably more. I like Purina as a food and as a company.
Purina donates millions each year for breed specific genetic diseases. Every time I send in weight circles it goes directly to boxer research. Most companies don't do that.
Here is a pic of one of my favorite bitches. My mentor is holding her, this was taken about 4 weeks ago while she was about 4 weeks pregnant. Notice her condition and coat. That is straight out of the house, not bathed in probaly 6-8 weeks.
People do get so crazy trying to force their food opinions on others. Please no one turn me in to Animal Control for feeding purina :)
***Edited By: alicat1 on 5/29/2006 11:19:26 PM*** Reason: ad
From the book, "Dr Pitcairns complete guide to Natural Health for dogs & cats" 3rd edition, revised & updated,
"Most people dont realize that terms like meat by products can actually mean poultry feather meal, connective-tissue (gristle), leather meal (yes, leather like that used to make belts or shoes), fecal waste from poultry and other animals, and horse and cattle hair. Robert Abady, founder of Robert Abady Dog Food Company describes meat and bone meal as "generally comprised of ground bone, gristle, and tendons, and is the cheapest and least nutritious of the by product meals." The same is true of lamb meal, poultry or chicken meal, or fish meal."
Animal Fat AAFCO: Obtained from the tissues of mammals and/or poultry in the commercial processes of rendering or extracting. It consists predominantly of glyceride esters of fatty acids and contains no additions of free fatty acids. If an antioxidant is used, the common name or names must be indicated, followed by the words "used as a preservative".
Note that the animal source is not specified and is not required to originate from "slaughtered" animals. The rendered animals can be obtained from any source, so there is no control over quality or contamination. Any kind of animal can be included: "4-D animals" (dead, diseased, disabled, or dying prior to slaughter), goats, pigs, horses, rats, misc. roadkill, animals euthanized at shelters, restaurant and supermarket refuse and so on.
Animal Digest AAFCO: A material which results from chemical and/or enzymatic hydrolysis of clean and undecomposed animal tissue. The animal tissues used shall be exclusive of hair, horns, teeth, hooves and feathers, except in such trace amounts as might occur unavoidably in good factory practice and shall be suitable for animal feed. If it bears a name descriptive of its kind or flavor(s), it must correspond thereto.
A cooked-down broth made from unspecified parts of unspecified animals. The animals used can be obtained from any source, so there is no control over quality or contamination. Any kind of animal can be included: "4-D animals" (dead, diseased, disabled, or dying prior to slaughter), goats, pigs, horses, rats, misc. roadkill, animals euthanized at shelters, restaurant and supermarket refuse and so on.
Beef & Bone Meal AAFCO: The rendered product from beef tissues, including bone, exclusive of any added blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents, except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices.
A byproduct made from beef parts which are not suitable for human consumption. It can incorporate the entire cow, including the bones, but the quality cuts of meat are always removed. This is an inexpensive, low quality ingredient used to boost the protein percentage.
Poultry Byproduct Meal AAFCO: Consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcasses of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines, exclusive of feathers except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices.
The parts used can be obtained from any slaughtered fowl, so there is no control over the quality and consistency of individual batches. Poultry byproducts are much less expensive and less digestible than chicken meat.The ingredients of each batch can vary drastically in ingredients (heads, feet, bones, organs etc.) as well as quality, thus the nutritional value is also not consistent. Don't forget that byproducts consist of any parts of the animal OTHER than meat. If there is any use for any part of the animal that brings more profit than selling it as "byproduct", rest assured it will appear in such a product rather than in the "byproduct" dumpster.
I feed my dog purina one chicken and rice. Our rescue organization told us to feed him that. Since on the track he was fed boiled chicken and rice, and that is what he was on. We've had good results with it.
I used to be a big fan of Science Diet for the longest time. My vet recommended it - and truthfully, in my immediate area the best you can do is Nutro and there is only one place that sells it in the area (keep in mind my "city" population just hit 68,000 and it's 40 minutes from me). One pet supply store just picked up Innova about a month ago.
Then another breeder I know convinced me to try Eagle Pack, well since, between my parents, my sister and I, we go through a significant amount of dog food I bit the bullet and decided to order in a truck load of food (we get about 1000 lbs every 3-4 months between all of us). That allowed me to pick and choose between about 6 really good brands.
The results I saw in my dogs from SD to Eagle Pack was insane. I felt bad ever feeding SD and I thought my dogs did fine on it. We switched to Canidae about a month ago and I've been even more impressed with it. I too was giving multiple supplements while feeding a lower quality food. I even thought I was saving money doing it. NOPE. By feeding Canidae I'm spending close to $800 a year LESS than I was with SD and my supplements. And I can tell my dogs are healthier on the Super Premium food.
And truthfully, until about a year ago I was one that said "I've always fed a food with corn in it without problems" or "I've always fed this brand". I didn't see the difference until I made the switch - and really it was 6 months of feeding the food before I REALLY saw the improvement on multiple levels (one of my males coats DOUBLED on Eagle Pack and it was insanely soft and fluffy).
I don't look down on people who choose to feed Purina, etc... I just think you can do better for your money - because I know I am!
Abby, nicely put. We always fed our cats SD. Then they had switched to Purina. When I learned about all the ingredients and such, I switched them to Ch Soup. I never knew my short haired cat had soft fur... well, he never did until he ate this. And I never realized his skin problems were from the food. He has no more skin issues and his coat, I could pet him all day. Their teeth are looking much better too. Drastic difference.
Are people ignoring the part where the AAFCO guidelines say "exclusive of hair, horns, teeth, hooves and feathers, except in such trace amounts as might occur unavoidably" or something similar?
Hide IS leather. If hide isn't allowed in the food, how's leather automatically assumed to be in there? Leather and leather are much more valuable being produced for boots and seat covers than it is being used in animal food.
And regarding all by-products being made of parts of animals not fit for human consumption? Thats a flat out lie. The truth is here in the US, 95% of us have no interest in eating livers, brains, kidneys, intestines and pigs feet (unless you livei n the south and want some chitlins and pickled pig feet), etc. THAT is what by-products are. Just because most of us aren't interested in eating them doesn't mean they're not fit for human ( or animal) consumption.
Organs in particular are the absolute best sources of vitamins and minerals for predators in the wild. Thats why whe you see a lion eating a gazelle, it's eating the stomach and intestines and all that gross stuff in the middle *first*. That's the best part.
Meat is great, I love meat. But organs aren't bad, just because people don't like them and get quesy at the thought of eating them.
I DO NOT recomend feeding Purina Pupppy Chow. The only good foods that Purina makes are their prescription diets. And, unless your puppy is overweight, has kidney, or gastro problems, you shouldn't feed any of those either. I personally recomend Abady AllStar Beef Muscle Canine Dry.
I will never feed anything that has corn in it again, but I have delt with allergies and they well suck. I noticed a huge difference in my female shiba Ruffian from purina to solid gold that she looked and felt like a new dog. On purina she had no coat and felt like a wire brush, due to allergies. But she was more active and easier to train on solid gold. I had tried to breed her sa well and she didn't take, solid gold and red razzberry leaves for a few months and bang 4 puppies. Now I feed her medi-cal hypo-allergenic, I can't get any good quality food here except from the vet so I use it, she does well on it though.
I grew up in farm country and knew plenty of farmers that fed old roy, brown bag and no name food as well. Most of them had the attitude that if it get killed by wolves we'll get another from the neighbour, too that doesn't make it okay.
Okay, here is the pic of my bitch she is a good representation of what my dogs look like I haven't looked at the link from Riley yet, but I can't imagine switching. You know, Purina is large and every one wants to be is big as them, so they try to dig up dirt and slam them.
I have been feeding Purina for 5 years. Before that I fed Diamond Puppy (to all my dogs, adults included) for 5 years before that, and boy I was GLAD last year I wasn't feeding that.
Okay I read the links and I see what Riley is saying, but I feed my CHILDREN sugar cereal, hot dogs and Tyson chicken.
Riley not to be mean, but do you look at every thing you put in to your mouth as closely as your dog? If you do, then the only things you are eating are ORGANIC fruits and veggies. EVERYTHING else has crap in it. It is bad, we all know it, but that doesn't stop most people from opening a bag of Doritos.
I just looked at my loaf of 'Aunt Millies Wheat Bread'. 21 ingredients including high fructose corn syrupe (which is in everything and every one knows is bad) and a mold inhibitor, and several things which I have no idea what they are. That's not going to stop me from eating it.
Like I said I like Purina products and I like Purina as a company. If nothing else, Purina is doing a lot more good directly for dogs through research than many of these small natural dog food companies are doing by servicing it's small base of dogs whose people choose to feed their food, and I will continue to feed, recommend, and support them.
I am satisfied with my dogs health and condition and if my dogs need 'additional' nutrients for competition or breeding then I give it to them. Just as I do any members of my family.
i dont think this discussion is about slamming a company because they are large and successful. it is about the ingredients in the dog foods. the ingredients are what they are. the definitions of them don't change depending on what company is putting them into their foods. it doesn't hurt to know exactly what ingredient is what and then each person can make an educated decision on what to feed.