I am puppywishes, a dog trainer in Canada. If you are just reading this topic for the first time, please understand that I did not want this topic to become such a big problem. But it has. I am also sorry if I come across as a 'know it all', my goal is not to cause trouble, or boost my own ego. Rather, I have a real concern about the safty and health of some dogs.
In this topic you may notice that a great many people do not agree with me, and as the result they have resorted to calling me a host of names. My feeling is that they want to bash me around so that I will leave. Still, my feeling is that this simple message may one day save your dog a great deal of pain. I do not mean to be dramatic. This is not about me as a person, nor do I even like all of this attention, as it seems so negative. Rather, this is about dogs, their health, and doing the right thing at the right time.
You are about to read my original message: and following that, you will read the terrible storm I have endured simply because I was brave enough to speak out about something that I do believe is wrong.
Again - I am so sorry if anything here upsets you. My goal is not to cause trouble. I simply am trying to help sick dogs get to where they should be - the doctors office.
I feel this is a very important message. And it goes out to everyone who uses this site, as well as the site owners.
There needs to be a new Rule added to the list. No medical advice. I have seen hundreds of cases on this site where people are sending messages to the group when they should be on the phone with a vet.
What is even more shocking is that their are members here who are giving medical advice over the internet. This is dangerious, and shows an uncanny lack of support to the dogs that are in need of medical attention.
I feel that a ban on medical is FAR more important, and responible than a ban on Advertising.
When a dog owner askes for medical advice, the only advice they should be given is "Contact your vet"... FULL STOP.
***Edited By: puppywishes on 6/3/2006 8:20:30 AM*** Reason: add
I agree.....to a point. If it is an emergency or something the YES, get them to the vet. But with me, I posted a concern about my dog Kaia, thinking my neighbor had hurt her and was given some GREAT medical advice from the one and only Scout and was able to get my dog in immediately to be seen. It didn't help her because more was wrong with her, but if I hadn't been given that advice, she COULD have(I wouldn't have let it get to far) but she could have gone on in a lot of pain for longer then she had to. I thought she was sore from something the neighbor did but she was in a whole lot more pain and in a much worse situation.
So, I think maybe more of a 'caution - watch what you tell people medically' rule would be better.
This site is provided for 'free' to its users, and supported my the monies of this sites adertising section. So therefore, it only makes sense to not allow advertising on the forum itself! If you want to advertise, you pay for your ad to be on this site and in return we all get to use this forum free of charge.....makes a ton of sense to the rest of us!
Also.......ummm, no one is giving bad advice number one, number two...there is no reason that advice should not be given here, we have a host of very experienced pet owners, vet techs etc on this site. If you are not medically educated, dont answer. And last, most are not medical emergencies that we get here, although on occasion they are (but tend to be trolls more often than not) unfortunately not everyone has the common sense if their dog is bleeding to go to the vet. They come here, we tell them....get to the vet!!
It is shocking to me that anyone would defend giving medical information over the internet. As for people here being dog health experts. Anyone who has really worked in a vet clinic knows RULE ONE very well "Never give medical advice over the phone. Have the caller book and appointment to see the vet."
I find it very suspect that a real animal health expert would forget the importance of this rule here.
And, it has nothing to do with BAD OR GOOD advice. You have no clue if your advice is good because you cannot know what is wrong with the dog.
I have not seen ANYONE give advice saying "THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE PROBLEM IS" most people say "It COULD be this or it MIGHT be this, please get it checked out" (As in my case, I was told of a couple possiblities of what the symptoms were that I described, I saw my vet and sure enough, that is what it was)
Most of us here have been doing this long enough that with enough details...we can give some 'ball park' ideas as to where the trouble may lie. We always tell them to see their vet, we never say...I KNOW this is the diagnosis. There is no problem giving advice followed by....see your vet asap to know the true cause.
Honestly, puppy? My vet LOVES the fact that I have a pretty good idea what I am talking about when I come in. It makes the vets job a WHOLE lot easier if they do not have to explain every tiny freaking detail. When I suspect something, or when something is wrong with my animals, If it is an emergency they go in immediately, if it is not, I make an appointment and research what it COULD be until I go in. Sometimes I ask on here. It gives me somethings to research, if I have a good idea, I can give other ideas that my vet might not have thought to look for immediately.
With Chloe, due to research and posting questions about her symptoms, I was able to figure out she had an elongated soft pallet and told the vet that that is what I thought she had, you should have seen his face when they examined her and sure enough........that was what she had(one of SO many problems)
I feel strongly about this because I work with dogs and I know how foolish some people can be. I am also breed dogs, and I love my pups to death. I must say. If I saw one of my puppy owners on line asking for help, when they had better be in the vet. I would want my puppy out of that house ASAP. There is enough canine pain in this world, why prolong it as a dog owner reads your email advice.
Note, while they are reading letters their dogs are in pain!
I think a good vet would say that it is fine to ask other people's opinions. Just because someone offers advice it doesn't mean that the person asking has to follow it. I have had pets my whole life, so I think I am pretty good at knowing when my animals need to go to the vet, but a lot of owners are not sure so they ask their questions on the forum, often just wanting validation for what they are thinking. And if you go back through the old posts, almost all of the medical questions are answered with a "call your vet" or "get to your vet ASAP".
Hey, if I followed the advice of the majority on here I wouldn't have 3 dominant type personality dogs, and I especially wouldn't have two white (gasp-OMG) mini schnauzers who happen to be littermates and are not the breed standard.
Lighten up - if you don't like it, don't read it. And yes, I am acting like my wire fox terrier today.
Yo puppy wishes some of these folks are young people(teens) who have parents that won't pay for a vet. We can't help that and yes it's wrong to have a dog and not pay for medical care. These kids need help and sometimes we are their only lifeline to at least do what they can to help their dogs. If offering advice on what worked for us can help their pets, I see nothing wrong with this. Sometimes people are sick and tired of going to the vet with a simple problem and the money grubbing vets(NOT ALL OF THEM) find all kinds of things "wrong" to tack on charges, and people get tired of it and seek advice here. So if you and your self righteous self can't handle that people need help and support, don't read this forum. I think this is a very usful tool for people in the categories I've described here. Not everyone has the resources to run to the vet everytime Muffy sneezes. Leave them alone
Not everything is a middle of the night bleeding to death get the emergency clinic as fast as possible situation. many things simply require a visit to your vet on Monday morning. Nothing wrong with owners asking around, getting some ideas and advice when there is no emergency. If it does turn out to be one. Then we tell them to go, and go now. You need to chill.
Puppywish again with the dramatic crap... No one has given any advice that can harm a animal that I have noticed. There are two kinds of vets too. There is the kind that wants you to bring your dog in for every little thing for $$. Then there is the good ol vet that has been doing this for years and that is where I go and I have worked with both. I worked with a vet for 3 years that loved if we could solve the problem on the phone and not bug him. There is a line at what you know for sure and what you need to let him handle. So far nothing that serious has been put on this board. If you call your vet and say my dog has worms and they tell you to come in for a exam and fecal I would laugh and say sell me the da@! medicine and save my money.
Some people may not take their pets to the vet, I'm not condoning that. But whatever medical advice is found here might be the only medical attention some dogs get. In that case I'd rather they risk it and follow some advice found here than no treatment what-so-ever. Most of what I see here is on the money, and when it's not, it's won't be long that many quickly point it out. We may not be vets, but breeders do have plenty of experience with many common ailments. Nobody's telling someone how to perform surgery (though I have sutured one of my own before!) Most of the simple suggestions I see are not harmful even if they turn out inaccurate - for example suggesting cough medicine for a cough that was thought to be kennel cough. At the vets office you cannot give advice over the phone because your vet could get sued. I use to work for a vet too.
Utopia, that was before everyone discovered how much money could be made by suing everyone for everything. It has ruined our society. We can't TOUCH our children on the bus, cause we might be accused of molesting and get sued. How sad for the child that is having a bad day and won't get that hug from anyone at home. Yes we bend the rules (alot) and hug our elementary kids, I drove a special needs bus and those kids grab you in a bear hug before you know it and of course i hug 'em back. It is idiots like our Mc Donald's old lady that was ignorant enough to put blazing hot coffee between her legs and sued before we realised just how easy it is to sue for ANYTHING and che ching let that cash register ring, and now everyone pays for it.... everyone is so afraid of being sued that we can't hardly do anything anymore....i.e I'm scared to let anyone go out in the pasture to pet my very gentle horse,cause you never know...she might accidentally step on their foot and break it, and the medical bills would run in the tens of thousands.....