Omg!! Your joking right??? I have yet to see some one post a life or death situation and then sit back and wait for someone to tell them it's not a big deal.. Any reply that I have seen has been "could be this or that or sounds like so and so, but I would take to the vet to be for sure". I think it is very helpful to get opinions, especially on minor things that a vet might not be able to get you in right away on and give you some ideas of how to treat it until you can get in.
***Edited By: Jomas3 on 6/2/2006 7:41:46 PM*** Reason: add
Wow! Puppywishes, you are so smart. I admire you to no end. I mean, you sound like you are just perfect! You can train your dogs without reinforcement (which I have asked you twice now, but you still haven't shared your God-like techniques). You take your dogs to the vet for everything (or do you just put them to sleep when there's something wrong with them, like you suggested to the person whose dog bit for the first time?) You're a big, bad TV star that gets taken advantage of. You've written a Best Selling Book (but yet your spelling/grammar is atrocious). I mean, Wow!
Now you say that no one should give medical advice or opinions on the net, but yet you have no problem diagnosing almost all of our training techniques (that work for us) as dead wrong, and say that we are not allowing our dogs to be the dogs that they can be, because we did not choose you as a trainer. Yet, you refuse to share your techniques with us, but only put every one of us down.
You claim to be this amazing and wonderful dog trainer that can train without any reinforcement, but yet when someone comes on here distraught because their dog bit a child for the first time, YOU GAVE THE MEDICAL ADVICE TO PUT THE DOG DOWN! Are you a vet? Do you know why that dog bit? Were you in that person's home analyzing the situation, environment and circumstances, giving you the "right" to essentially sentence the dog to death? NO! Maybe if you pull your nose out of Cesar Millan's anal cavity, you would have seen his show a few weeks back, when someone on his show ultimately decided to put one of her Min Pins down, despite Cesar's help and discretion. At the end of the show, he expressed that there are always other options...and I believe the Min Pin was a biter.
Now, I have seen many people asking for advice or opinions for many things. I have been one of them. I am not a vet, a trainer, a doctor, or anything of that sort. I do own a dog, and have owned many dogs in the past. I've seen my share of health problems in dogs, that baffled me at the time. If someone were to come on here explaining something going on with their pet (like the bunny who lost his balance), I am not going to say, "Oh my God, your pet has ____" No! I'll offer my experience that was similar and share what I did to handle the problem. Am I prescribing dangerous medications? Am I performing, or instructing people to perform, medical procedures on their pets? Nope! I sure as hell ain't instructing anyone to put their dog to sleep!
In return, I appreciate the advice and personal experiences that other people have shared with me. It has saved me from vet visits, when I thought something was wrong with my dog, but found out that its normal. Someone shared with me earlier this week that Prednisone is not actually as dangerous as I thought in dogs. Before that, I would have flipped out if my dog had ever been prescribed Prednisone, because I know the effects it has on humans. I typically ask questions about things I have not experienced before. My dogs have never had fleas before. When my dog started itching like crazy, I threw him in the bath and found A flea on him. Just one! Now, I know he'll need flea medication, but because I've never had to buy any type of flea medication before, I didn't know which to choose. I've seen that cute little golden retriever singing the "Hello Mother" song, but I've also heard that some can be dangerous. Having never had to deal with the flea issue, I never paid attention to which brands did what. Thankfully, there are people on here that do and they were able to help me.
And to answer your question about what would a good vet do? A good vet would be honest. When I had my dog neutered, I freaked out over every little thing. I did eventually call my vet when he reopened his wound, and they told me A) Do NOT put Neosporin on the wound, B) I can bring him in to see the technician during the clinic hours and C) but, really, he just needs to be watched and not allowed to disturb the wound and that she would suggest an e-collar. I swung by anyway during clinic hours, and you know what the tech said? Do not put Neosporin on the wound, just watch him closely and do not allow him to disturb the wound, use an e-collar. Did I need to pay $48 for that?
I, like Katz, like to be informed when going to the doctor, whether it be for myself, my family or my pet. I take a checklist of things to ask about every time I go. My father nearly had his foot amputated last year because he was misdiagnosed with a bone infection, because the doctor didn't take the time to listen to all of his complaints. If my father hadn't spoken to a friend of his about what was going on, he would still have that same diagnosis, and probably would not have a foot on the end of his leg. But no, thanks to some guy that never took a medical class in his life, he was able to share with my dad that it didn't sound like a bone infection (especially since it hadn't gone away with IV antibiotics after 3 months), but instead it sounded like Sharko-Joint Syndrome. Would you believe, IT IS Sharko-Joint Syndrome! And, my dad still has both feet. Vets and Doctors don't know everything either. I have never met a good doctor that didn't welcome concerns and/or suggestions, or an informed patient/owner.
Puppywishes, first and formost, to have the rules changed, you need to contact the stie admin. For each and every site you feel there is a problem with.
Secondly (and perhaps more importantly) I can not count the number of times, over the years I have been on TP as a poster, then Mod that someone has come on with a pet related medical emergency. You will find that everyone urges the poster to go to the vet. There are ALSO indivduals who are quite capable of assisting with first aid information which helps keep the pet alive until it makes it to the vet.
If you're suggesting that everyone (unless they are a vet) refrain from offering temporary help, you can forget it. It will never happen. Nor should it. First aid is just that, immediate, temporary medical help.
***Edited By: pyrmom on 6/2/2006 8:12:53 PM*** Reason: *
I don't like the idea of banning it, I think it should be emphisesed that dogs NEED a vet... however if you say my puppy has been pooing worms should it be wrong for members to say deworm him? Yes he should go to the vet and get a stool sample done... or the person could run to Wal-Mart and gra some wormer.
And if you also worked at a vet you'd know that 90% of the emergencies where nothing.
"Oh my god there is something on her!" as they rush in screaming and bawling to have a tick plucked off by the tech.
People are told go to their vet, but how useless and iuncaptabel to do people actually have to be? Clipping nails, cleaning ears? Kind of like the people who have said don't clip your dogs nails, have a professional do it. Don't clean your dogs ears, have the tech do it. Don't bathe your dog just come to a progressional.
Some vets will tender advice, things like the use of pepto, tums, and basic care. Others won't let an owner clean eye goobers if they have a choice.
Vets are also in a buissness. I give my own vaccines. Should I go to the vet? Wait, while I was a vet tech I gave the vaccines. Hmm. What a quandry.
I keep reading, and I still do not agree with any one of you. I think you are wrong. Dead wrong. Also, lay off the personal attacks.
How do you know if it is a life or death problem over the INTERNET! You can't. You don't and you never will.
This is the problem with these kind of groups. People get addicted. Over the internet anyone can be an expert, people who have no expert experience at all can hop on-line and give all kinds of medical advice. It is dangerious. And, it is my view that people who give this advice are not experts at all. Can anyone find a post here that was written by a confirmed vet giving medical advice. NO! If their was one he would be taken before the board.
Also, I wonder, why are some of you so hot headed when you are told to limit the information you are giving. There are a million ways to help people on the net, heath issues is NOT one of them.
Is it that you feel you will lose some of your internet power? I just don't get it?
On this topic, we agree to be on our own minds. I will not agree with most of you (that's ok) and you will not agree with me (that is ok too).
I have nothing more to say on this topic other than.
To each their own. If your dog is sick and you are wasting time on the internet... well, I am happy that I am not your dog.
I will take this up with the website owners. However much people want to be on-line experts, there needs to be some rules to govern all of you wanna-be vets.
"In return, I appreciate the advice and personal experiences that other people have shared with me. It has saved me from vet visits, ..."
This is a clear example of a person NOT going to see a vet as the direct result of medical information given on-line.
In the above case someone read a internet post, and decided NOT to go to the vet, rather, they waited to see if the advice was good. In the above case the advice was good. GREAT. That the lord of dogs.
But what if it was not? That is what worries me. People will NOT go and see a vet because they use this FREE infortmation to save money.
Can you not see what a dangerious and slippery slope this is. How can a group of loving dog owners not see that their is danger here.
Before I give any health advice I generally say 'I'm not a vet, but.....' If people still choose to follow any basic health care tips or advice that is there business.
I know I am not a vet, but I have a secondary education, I am not an idiot, and if I deal with a basic puppy care problem maybe 10 times, I would say that I probably know how to treat it, particularly if it has already been diagnosed by a vet. Many people come on here asking about health problems after they have been to the vet looking for MORE info.
Also, I concider myself fairly knowledgable about animal care, more than the normal person. Of every 10 vet visits, I am surpised or don't know the diagnosis before I go in maybe once, the other nine I am like 'well test for X', or this dog has 'y' and I am right. I have a lot of dogs and I am at the vet a lot. There is a reason 2 vet offices know me by voice alone on the phone.
Are you trying to honestly tell me that you would sit back and let an animal suffer with something that can be helped with first aid until it can be seen by a vet? Counting my blessings that I am not YOUR dog.
Don't tell me, let me guess, you have the same feelings about first aid for humans as well?
I've YET to read a most pertaining to a medical problem where the person with the probelm has been told NOT to take their dog to a vet.
***Edited By: pyrmom on 6/2/2006 8:39:12 PM*** Reason: **
I am quite new to this forum and have yet to see anything that would lead you to believe that people are handing out medical advice in lieu of veterinary care.
Is there any threads in particular you could point out to me?
Personally, I know when it's time to go to the Vet (or at least I believe I do). But things like a "stinky ear" or "itching" I would probably post a question and get some opinions while waiting for a Vet's appointment.
There are alot of knowledgeable people on this site. I have learned quite alot in the past 6 weeks.
As a matter of fact, I took a compliment today for my great choice in a glucosamine supplement from Chan's surgeon. It wasn't even my idea or choice - it came from this forum!
If a baby is having a hard time breathing any good mother will rush that baby to a hospital. A parent that allowes their child to suffer because they can't get away from their computer should be taken before the police.
HeatherFeather: as for my spelling, I write these posts in about 30 seconds. I do not go back, re-read, or care about my spelling. THIS IS THE INTERNT. IT's fun!
Unlike some of you, my computer is not my friend, my vet or my trainer. It is a place I come to have FUN.
HeatherFeather; I am sorry heather that I do not have my editor here with me.... hahahaha, I mean... really!
I think some of you need to get away from your computers. You are take all of this way to hard.
And after reading HeatherFeather very long letter. It is clear to me that she is doing all kinds of negative self thinking. I did not say I was better than anyone. You put thouse words in my mouth. (Oh, I hope that was good grammar) hahahahahaha.
I agree with you. I do. And I think it is great that you are getting so much help here. I too have picked up a ton of great advice from the people here. I have.
I can't direct you to any post that upset me, beacuse I do not keep track of these things. However, there was one post with a puppy that was not eating or drinking for days! Everyone said "go to the vet" FOUR SIMPLE WORDS, but then went on to give all kinds of advice. The owner did not go to the vets for two days. Rather, she kept on giving us updates.
It is not enough to simply say "Go to the vets" and then give people a reason NOT to go.
If you are one of the people who got help here, great. But if you understand how internet communication works, then you also understand that most of the people who come here will NOT get involved in these chats. They may ask one question and leave. Or they simply read.
Also, (and I say this will all due respect), when people like you say how HELPFUL the medical information is; it will give someone the impression that they can save money by simply taking internet advice.
I am not saying a ton of dogs are going to get hurt as the result of this. Not at all. Rather, I am saying that some dogs may get hurt as the result. That's all.
If a baby is having a hard time breathing any good mother will rush that baby to a hospital. A parent that allowes their child to suffer because they can't get away from their computer should be taken before the police. If that parent does not provide immediate medical care/first aid that child will be dead long before they reach any hospital. Quite often, information is available faster over the net than it is over the phone, while awaiting fire/rescue.
Unlike some of you, my computer is not my friend, my vet I WISH my computer were my vet. It would certainly be a whole heck of a lot less expensive! or my trainer. No you are the expert trainer, you've told us so already. It is a place I come to have FUN. WHEEEEEEEEEEEEE, are we having fun yet?
I think some of you need to get away from your computers. You are take all of this way to hard. You are the one who has has decided to dictate to others how they are to comport themselves and what they should & should not be permitted to ask and/or share. That would give more weight to the thinking that YOU take the on-line stuff far more seriously than many others.
***Edited By: pyrmom on 6/2/2006 8:58:59 PM*** Reason: *