I would have taken her, what will happen if nobody takes her? I wouldn't generalise and say that you would have encountered problems later on, that may not have been the case. The way to stop pet shops is to keep on your government's back constantly otherwise the suffering will still go on and on and on.......
How many puppies will be put down because they haven't sold whilst at the cute puppy phase? There are millions of people and those that are aware of what lurks behind pets shops (i.e. puppy mills) are very few and far between and it will take decades and even then there will always be a substantial number of people that will be ignorant and meanwhile the suffering goes on....education should start at school, this should be part of the curriculum.
It takes a heart of steel to be able to walk away...you haven't succeeded in your mission to stop pet shops from selling puppies, there will always be thousands more that will end up purchasing a pup meanwhile an older pup ends up at the scrap heap!!! PLEASE GO BACK AND GIVE THIS LITTLE GIRL A CHANCE, YOU MAY BE HER ONLY CHANCE.
I bought Merphy from a pet store. I went back four times before finally buying him. I simply fell in love with him. I was living in an apartment that did not allow dogs, but I knew I had to have him. They gave me a 2-week unconditional guarantee (I could take him back for any reason), a free visit to the vet and a 1 year genetic health guarantee. I also have his breeders information, his pedigree, and information on spaying/neutering your dog. It will be a year tomorrow that I bought him, and I can still walk in there, the owners know me and my dog by name, and give him a free chew toy every time we visit.
Merphy has allergies and some behavioral issues, but the puppy kisses, the sticks he brings me as "gifts", his facial expressions, his happy go lucky demeanor, and when he got so happy to see me today, he piddled on the groomer....those things far outweigh having to give him a daily Benadryl tab and take him to training.
My champion lines Mastiff, who cost $2500 16 years ago, had severe allergies, and eventually went blind and deaf, and got cancer. She required twice daily foot baths for the allergies, a HUGE pill twice a day, and she crapped four mountains a day. They are both dogs, deserving of love.
Benji is also from a pet store. He has absolutely no health problems, no allergies and no behavioral issues. His only problems come not from his parents, but from being attacked by a coyote.
All this talk on "if you buy that puppy, you are just opening a spot for another puppy to be sold" makes no sense. The new puppy that will take this pups space in the pet store, is already here! And so is the puppy that will take his place, and that ones place and so on. Puppy mills are not going to go out of business simply by not buying a puppy. Its going to take some serious legislation to close the puppy mills.
I think for the first time, I am really surprised by some of the responses to this thread. I thought we ALL loved animals? Some of you guys are making pet stores owners out to be monsters that hate dogs. I've never met a pet store owner that didn't love animals. That's usually why they go into the business. Are they looking to make a profit? Heck Yes! That's what business is all about. But to sit outside and purposely sabotage a fellow pet lovers business? So you don't agree, thats fine. But to be proud that you shut down someones business...that's shameful. And not to burst your bubble, but I highly doubt that a young teenage girl single-handedly shut down a pet store by handing out flyers. Pet stores are closing left and right because of those evils who are even bigger than puppy mills...WalMart!
Don't encourge people to buy becuase of emotional reasons. Give people the support to go get a quality animal with breeder support, guarantied lines replacments health and etc.
If real breeders where supported it'd help. But instead, having a litter is a freaking fiasco and people ask me why I bring dogs into the world but its okay to bu y the poor puppy already brough into the world who has nothing on the litter I have.
In fact becuase those dogs NEED you, don't buy from us because our puppies are okay and we'll keep them forever.
I'm not saying to not support a reputable breeder. However, reputable breeders tend to charge more than I am willing to spend on a companion animal. If I were looking to breed, of course I would get my dog from a reputable breeder. But, my dogs are my companions, not a business venture. Do I need a champion lines dog to warm my feet at night? No. A shelter dog, or some dog that was dumped at a hay business, fits that bill just fine. If someone fell in love with a pet store puppy that will be sent back to be a puppy machine, then why not save it? I'm not saying that when I am ready to get another dog that I will run off to the closest pet store (there aren't any around that sell dogs anyway), but I don't think I'll go to a "reputable" breeder, because in my experience (and others on this board) their puppies don't seem to be any mo' better than mine.
I have to agree with icy leave her there, most petshops will tell you anything to sell a dog. Bottom line they will not loose money on her, they will not put her down, they will not drop her at the shelter.
If you are concerned about the cage she is in call your local SPCA and see if they will inspect them, they may just take her if they don't like what they see, then she will goto a good home.
duchess Senior Member
joined: 12/27/2005 posts: 1332
msg #10 IP: Logged 7:09:44 PM 6/3/2006
Its funny how one can be bashed for purchasing puppies from a pet store but all the food and supplies are ok.(?)
Sorry to bust your bubble but I and many others DO NOT buy any products from petshops that carry dogs or cats for that matter. I don't buy anything from pet shops that sell lagrge snakes or iguanas either these do not make good pets and sould be ilegal, IMO.
I'm not saying to not support a reputable breeder. However, reputable breeders tend to charge more than I am willing to spend on a companion animal
That's strange because with all of the breeders I've contacted in the last eight months, most of them quote prices that are LESS than what I've seen in the pet shop. Some have even quoted show potential for less than what pet stores charge in my area.
I once arrived at a pet shop early one Tuesday on my day off while they were receiving new pups. The vet was checking them over. They all looked really sickly and a couple even left with the vet. I pretended to be looking at collars to overhear what the vet was saying. She had this really "disgusted" look on her face when each pup was handed to her. I'm glad that shop did have the pups getting proper care, but I HATE the fact that they support the puppymills that churn out those pups. All the pups in that shop that were for sale seemed healthy in their cages. It just makes me wonder how many arrive in less than stellar condition before being nursed back to health and sold to the highest better.
Oh, not to mention the poor bitch that will spend her entire life in some small cage churning out litter after litter for some disgusting puppymill owner. They'll never know love or a happy life and will probably suffer an untimely death. By not buying the pups in a petshop, you're saving other dogs from that fate. Every time you DON'T buy ANYTHING from a petshop that sells cats and dogs, you're sending them a message. Once petshops get the idea that customers will ONLY support shops that don't sell animals and people STOP buying directly from puppymills, will we put these puppy peddlers out of business.
Otherwise you might as well mail a check to wizards of claws with a handfull of bullets. Pay for the animal and ask them to shoot the poor bitch that had it so that she can have a quick death.
Okay? So there's a puppy that is already alive. What should we do about that puppy? Should we put a bullet in her too, since she came from humble beginnings? Like I said, we're not going to stop puppy mills by refusing to buy anything from them, you have to start from a different angle...above them.
I'm not trying to advocate puppy mills, as I think they are disgusting and the people who operate them should be forced to live out the remainder of their life in those same cages. But I find it sad that a bunch of "animal lovers" are saying to ignore the needs of this animal.
Just FYI, I paid $500 for Merphy. The pet store I bought him from took better care of their puppies than any that I have ever seen. The vet comes every other day, they do not allow anyone to touch the dogs before the vet gets there, and everyone must wash their hands before petting a dog. It is the only pet store that I've been to that doesn't wreak of urine, their areas are cleaned multiple times a day, and you can tell that the two owners absolutely love animals. $500 is super cheap for a dog, especially being that this was in Orange County, where everything costs more. Besides this store, the cheapest I've seen a pet store sell a pup for is $1500, but most are over $2K.
HEATHERFEATHER - that is exactly what I have been saying; not buying a pet shop pup is simply not going to stop puppy mills unless millions of people are educated as to what lurks behind a pet shop, the majority of people do not know any better so hence the pet shop and in turn, the puppy miller will always be in business. I cannot believe how some individuals can possibly believe that by not buying from a pet shop this will stop the puppy mills from existing....like I said, education should start at school and without the government stepping in and therefore making puppy mills ILLEGAL I cannot see any improvement. I can't help but feel that breeders of purebred dogs are only concerned about wanting to bethe only ones allowed to sell dogs and not really because of genuine concern for the dogs in puppy mills, generally I would agree but then there has got to be another way and by trying to "educate" a few people here and there is just not the answer.
You know pet shops that sell dogs/cats went out of business in my area. I don't know of one in the past 10 years or so. If people quit buying from them, they will shut down, period.
So, in Alicats area they were able to shut down petshops that sold animals. If others reacted the same way, it would put puppymills out of business.
Heatherfeather, I live in orange county too. Most of the petstores I've visited have treated pets very well. The shop I saw a vet visit was at the Irvine Spectrum, which I'm sure you are familiar with. I don't have a problem with the way the petshops treat pets, at least not the ones I've visited. But the problem lies with puppymillers who buy a bunch of animals, through them in the cage, and then proceed to live off the money they "earn" off the backs of these animals. I've seen pet shops in our county charge $499 for an older larger breed dog that's been at the shop for a few months. Then they'll turn around and sell a cute little mixed breed for 3k since that's so "trendy" in our area. That dog does deserve a happy home, but so does it's mother. By not buying from the petshops will make them stop buying from the millers. If they don't buy from the millers and the millers can't sell directly to the public. Guess what??? These people will go get real jobs, instead of making poor animals suffer to pay their way through life.
Besides, if price is your only concern with owning a dog, then you got a lot more to worry about. My post just pointed out that I've found breeders that charged a lot less than pet shops. Which kinda made peoples point of wanting an "affordable pet" moot. I mean, if that's your biggest concern, their are plenty of pets needing homes in shelters for $35-75, plenty of purebred. If you only want a pet, you don't need AKC papers/champions/etc, etc. So why not take care of one that is already here AND by taking it you'll give room in the shelter for another dog needing a home. Instead of giving the petstore room to replace that puppy with another one from a miller.
***Edited By: blackqueen8 on 6/4/2006 4:53:15 AM*** Reason: .
One woman deciding to go to jail instead of giving her seat to a man just because he was a different color than her, started a boycott. That boycott changed the way things were done here in the U.S. forever.
The U.S. decided in the 80's to boycott a little country by the name of South Africa. That decision changed their history forever and ended their apartheid.
Each person has a voice and with that voice, a say.
***Edited By: blackqueen8 on 6/4/2006 4:59:25 AM*** Reason: .
Price is not my only issue on buying a dog. Can I afford to pay $2500 for a dog? Yes. But I won't. I won't spend that much money for a pet. I'd rather spend that money on them (God, I've spent so much more).
The worst pet store I've seen in OC is Indogneato at the Westminster Mall. It was so bad I reported them. You could smell the pee four stores down. I almost broke the cages and set all the animals free. The one at Irvine Spectrum wasn't much better when I was there. They had a Yorkie pup that could barely walk, was laying in his own poop, and they claimed he was three months old. The people are nice there, though. Merphy came from Laguna Beach, and Benji came from Fashion Island.
I am all for stopping puppy mills. I think anyone who breeds or studs a dog should have to be trained and licensed to do so. They are starting to require spay/neuter on all pets in California (I'm going to some forum to support this on Thursday). Unfortunately, they should start somewhere else, as puppy mills are already illegal here. But our pounds are full, so its not in vain. However, I also feel for the true victims of puppy mills...the puppies and their moms. They deserve a good home too, maybe even moreso than those that come from a more desirable background. To say that they don't deserve to be given a good home is a little too Hitlerish for me to stand by.
I didn't mean you directly when I asked if money was the only concern with a pup. But on a personal note, the petstore at Fashion Island is owned by the same people who own the one at the Spectrum. It even had the same name with the petshop at Irvine opened until they decided to change it.
Anyhow, I haven't been to the pet shop at Westminister, but that can is at the Mission Viejo mall. The dogs looked happy to me, but the stench of pee was worse in that shop than any other I've been to.
I never said that dog doesn't deserve a nice home. It does just like any other dog born into this world. But I think the OP did the right thing. I would've done it too. If you want to support pet shops. Go ahead, but the points I made are vaild.
I'm just a little confused? Why would you support that law, yet you'll support pet shops?
BTW, that law would never be enforced here in Ca. Look at the law that outlaws ferrets in Ca. There's millions of ferret owners in california. I use to see them at my vets office before my dog passed away.
***Edited By: blackqueen8 on 6/4/2006 5:25:56 AM*** Reason: .
I'll explain something to you and maybe I won't be the only person who sees the logic in this...
All petshop puppies are bred by puppymills or at the very least very irresponsible breeders ONLY looking to make money. How can I say this?
Any breeder worth ANYTHING (even the BYB's that someone else was trying to make sound okay) wants to know where their puppies end up. They want to have a hand in choosing that home for their puppies. They want to know that the puppy is in good hands and well cared for. They would NEVER allow one of their pups to sit in a cage in the mall - or even in a nice pet store - because just like you and me they think it's a terrible life for a puppy. Even a caring BYB gets a bad taste in their mouth about this scenerio.
So the breeders who are placing their puppies in pet shops are looking for an easy way out an quick money in their pockets. They want to give up responsibility for the puppy and any future well being (odds are 10-1, that health guarantee you are being offered is offered by the pet store and has NOTHING to do with the breeder) and they want their money now, rather than having to deal with buyers (which takes a lot of time if you do it right), and without having to shell out more money in vet expenses, vaccines, and food - let alone the time needed to care for the puppy.
A health guarantee is the breeders way of having consequences for choosing to breed a litter. A breeder who sells the litter to the pet store or a broker may get a smaller price for the puppy, but they never have to worry about whether that puppy grows up to be sick because they will never know. On a very rare occasion a buyer might take that info given to them from the pet store and contact the breeder - but I guarantee you it almost never happens - and in a lot of cases, especially with a BYB, the breeder is no longer breeding (got tired of the hastle/work) or has moved far far away. So, that puppy's breeder is breeder with no consequence. They could very well be breeding dogs that they KNOW have health issues - or worse, behavorial problems - and they don't care.
What's more likely is that the puppy was sold to the pet shop from a broker who bought the litter from the breeder. In this instance, you are not only supporting a pet shop, and a lousy breeder, but also a broker. Breeders who broker puppies are the worst kind. I knew of one that lied about birthdates of her puppies so that she could meet the weight requirement at 8 weeks so she could get a higher price from the broker - so she was sending off 6-7 week old puppies and saying they were 8 weeks old.
You can say "a pet is a pet is a pet" and it's still never going to be true. Some of the same people here who support the PAWS legislation are the ones saying it doesn't matter where the puppy came from. There wouldn't be a need for breeder legislation if people would decide what their views are of a situation and stick to them. Don't say "I don't support puppymills" and then buy a pet store puppy, because you ARE then supporting a puppy mill. By that logic, rather than getting a dog from a shelter, we should all just find the biggest puppymills we can and start buying their dogs. They are already born right? They need love and homes? If you bought directly from the puppymill you would only be saving one life - I mean buying one dog - and that wouldn't REALLY make that much of a difference - would it?
And not all pets are created equally when you are looking at things as a prospective "buyer". Heather can say until she's blue in the face that it's okay for her to by petshop dogs because she doesn't care about champion lines and doesn't want to spend lots of money on dog. It's not about the price. It's about the breeder. And you have to pay attention who you're supporting by choosing them as a breeder. It shouldn't be about availability or about price. It should be about what you're getting from that breeder.
A well bred dog is going to stand head and shoulders above it's poorly bred counterparts in both the conformation and temperament areas. And conformation isn't just about looking pretty. Especially when you're dealing with a working dogs, good conformation means you have a dog built to last. It's not as likely to have joint problems as an older dog. It's not as likely to have health issues that plague it throughout it's lifetime. It's bred for great temperament so you're not going to have a dog that is snappy and can't be around strangers. But it has to be WELL BRED - not just for an okay breeder.
It's insane how the same people who say "love all dogs" are the ones who look at them more like merchandise. A dog should be a well thought out, planned addition to a household. When you "impulse buy" based on emotions you're going to end up having to face things you shouldn't have to.
That puppy does need a home. But you shouldn't feel badly about the fact that it doesn't have one. It's breeder should. You don't know where it's going to end up - but you also don't know where hundreds of thousands of other dogs will end up. Go to your Shelter if you want to save a life and find one that won't be helping to support their lousy breeder. Some of the breeders who put puppies in pet shops depend on the logic some have given here - "but it needs a home"... it's a great sales tactic for them and keeps them in business. I guarantee you that the breeder of that puppy stays in business 1/2 because of "it's a cute puppy" impulse buyers and 1/2 because of "that poor puppy, what a sad life for him" buyers.
And I repeat - we wouldn't need legislation to tell us what is acceptable if the average American would stop relying on the government to fix problems they are contributing to. You're smart people. Don't do silly things. If the breeder of that puppy gets that puppy back (if the store actually really sends the puppy back - which I find hard to believe) maybe they will think twice about breeding their next litter. Every single problem they encounter might just slow them down. If you make it easier for them, they won't just breed one more litter, they will breed two more.
This has become quite the thread hasn't it? Well it's Sunday morning and I'm still thinking of that little puppy and my heart says go get her, but my mind says wait because of all the reasons we have stated: supporting puppymills, byb's etc.
It's not a matter of price to me as I paid $1,900 for my English Bulldog from his breeder and adopted my Beagle for $125....and they both give me the same amount of love and companionship I could ask for. Who knows the background of my Beagle, he could have been a petstore dog, all I know is that he is a wonderful dog. I don't care what his background is. But remember I don't know what his background is, with this little puppy I KNOW I'm buying from a petstore.
This is not to say I've never purchased a dog from a petstore before. I purchased a Sheltie from a petstore about 13 years ago and he was a wonderful dog. Double merle (shocking huh?) He ended up having such severe mange and allergies that we had to put him down at the age of 9.....sad. But I know that for the 9 years I had him, he was loved and spoiled rotten....I did get serious flak from my breeder friends who said "Oh if you wanted a male sheltie we had a litter" but they never had one when I asked....so I did the instant gratification thing. Found this little guy in the window, took him home.
I'm probably rambling to make myself feel better because I do still feel guilty for leaving her behind but I know there are many many Shih Tzu breeders out there and I may have to wait if I really want a pup, but I have to say that the instant gratification of saving that pup is so appealing, even knowing all the information of where she came from and where she could end up....
It's only 8am here, the petstore doesn't open til noon...I'm not going there today.
Oh and just one more thing, I do not purchase my pet supplies at this pet store. I actually get them at Kmart. :)
I should add I got my Chow, Pippin from a pet shop too. I worked there are really did know where she came from, I never kidded myself saying she was a good breeder she was nothing more than BYB. I felt sorry for her because eveyone that walked into the store wanted to get her because they had a male. No one gave to poops that she was born thru c-section and in grande prarie where they have a vet and still 2 of 5 pups died. In high level we had no vet he came once a week and was 2 hours away. Everyone just wanted her to breed and sell the pups. We had her at the store for 3 weeks and I refused to sell her to anyone that wanted her so I bought her, she was 300 dollars. Will I ever buy in a pet shop again, NO never, but I wil never work in one that sells dogs again either. I am way to picky I couldn't sell the dogs no matter how I tried. I would look at the people and say no you shouldn't have a dog and tell them it was sold. It really PO'ed my boss too, LOL. Like I give a crap she lies about every dog in that palce. She was GIVEN a litter of yellow pups from the trunk of a car from a reserve and she sold them for 400 bucks each as yellow labs. You can never believe anything anyones tells you I want proof and contracts for health for at least 5 years and I will pay for it, I don't care what they look like in the glass cages.
ruffian ,you didnt bust my bubble...if it didnt apply to you ..It wasnt directed towards you. I've never bought a puppy from a petshop and I buy my pet food from a farm supply but there are plenty of people that do buy things from pet stores that sell puppies and if they want them to go out of the puppy mill business then they need to boycott the whole Store, not just purchasing pups. That was my point of view.
Dutchess- that is exactly what I said in a earlier post. Truely, if ALL people listened and quit making impulse or 'charity' buys from petstores, puppymills would end. Period. If petstores would not profit and puppymills would not profit, they would stop 'producing'. It is supply and demand. You take that puppy out of that cage and you are demanding that another puppy be put back in it.
Leave the puppy, PLEASE. Petshops are the worst of the worst. I know a man who runs a straight up amish puppymill, but even HE doesn't sell to pet shops.
***Edited By: alicat1 on 6/4/2006 12:24:20 PM*** Reason: ad
1pm and I haven't left my house to go to the petstore. It's not easy but I know I'm making the right decision.
I have been thinking about her all night and day but I know I can't contribute to the puppymills or byb's....*sigh* but I really want to save her.
I've been talking it over with my husband this morning and he understands but he says "Ann it will never end. You'll want to save them all." And he's right. But don't all great things start with one small act?
It's hard to sit here thinking about her....but I'm going to try and stay strong and stay HOME!