I have to ditto Scout and Pearl. If a poster comes on to post about a specific breeder, giving the breeder's name or kennel name, e-mail, address, phone number, etc... that is breeder bashing and is not allowed.
If they are promoting a breeder, also a no-no as that is site promotion or free advertising.
It's unfortunate that this is a forum, and such a great site, that we are not able to worn people about STATED FACTS, there is nothing bashing about what I stated, simple true facts, and they are being taken care of by the authorities, but in the meantime, dozens more people are purchasing SICK and DYING dogs from two people who are just out to make a buck. If we can't spread the word then who does, they just continue to break the law and it is not okay. Amazing how a WARNING went into a BASHING. Maybe it's okay until it has happened to you. Unfortunately that is world we live in, everything is okay or maybe sad in our eyes until it has happened to ourselves and then its devastating.
krisicle64, I'm sorry you have had a problem and bad experience. However, you can not expect a public forum to accept responsibility or liability for what is posted by members of an open forum.
There are no rules stating that you can not say, beware of a cock-a-poo breeder in Timbucktu. You CAN provide information that will have folks thinking twice, but you can NOT list the specific information.
***Edited By: pyrmom on 6/13/2006 7:31:16 PM*** Reason: *
as far as breeders go what we can do here is post how to pick a good breeder, what to avoid, red flags to look for, what should be in a contract etc. then people have to look for themselves. that can educate people when they run across a bad breeder. a lot of that does get on here.
Then we had all start donating money to ADMIN to cover their future lawsuits for supporting liable/slander...
Unfortunately, you really have to consider that if you have a battle to fight FIGHT IT. Don't hide behind an forum that hides your identity. You have a problem with a breeder, set up your own website. ADMIN pays for this space... we just get to play on the playground...
And as this forum is supported by the advertising dollars of the breeders who pay to advertise with Terrific Pets, we DO have to respect the fact that they deserve to have the "No breeder bashing" rule. I do advertise on TP and I have no problem with breeder bashing personally (as if I'm not proud of what I do, I should really just quit) but I can see why they would be upset to see their money going towards exposing their faults. TP doesn't screen breeders. It's not their job.
WE CAN make sure everyone knows what a cruddy breeder looks like though!!! :)
Breeders and Puppy Factories don't fall under the same category. Someone that breeds multiple breeds and mix breed dogs in demand, are more than likely focused on "The Bottom Line" when it comes to the care of their merchandise.
When people advertise, it's not their place to scrutinize. After all, business is business. But there is a matter of scruples. If you know for a fact that someone is paying you to advertise sick animals and that someone is paying you to advertise pets that come from deplorable situations, in your own good conscience, deny them service.
I reiterate - Terrific Pets doesn't screen their advertisers. They don't require references in order to advertise with them. I'm sure if someone files a legitimate complaint that they would investigate it and would make an ethical decision.
Unfortunately it is not illegal to breed mixed breed dogs, or to breed many breeds of dogs. Many of these breeders are USDA licensed. USDA doesn't require them to health test. They don't really care if they are breeding dogs that produce pups with hip displaysia. They DO care if they are selling pups that are sick at the time of sale, but pups sold by USDA licensed kennels have to have an interstate health certificate before sale. If they can find a less than ideal vet who will sign one, USDA considers this proof the dog was healthy at the time of sale. And they don't check for parasites or anything other than obvious illness in the puppies.
PitPat - I AGREE with you - but I also understand how the system works. I don't LIKE it - but it isn't necessarily up to TP to make sure that buyer's are choosing a reputable breeder. They are a business first, and out to make money as well...
I only know of ONE breeder directory that actually screens their breeders before they allow them to advertise with them. Even they have breeders on their site that I don't consider responsible...
personally i would lvoe to see bad breeders and puppymills exposed so others dont fall prey to them.
when admin made this rule he did say if any breeders advertising on his site were proven scammers to email him and he would take care of removing them from the site. if these people have been caught and legal action is being pursued against them .... do you have a link to a news story or something that would back up the claim ? if so send it to ADMIN.
i feel your frustration and understand your point but you are complaining to the wrong people ... we cannot change the rules of the site nor can we remove the advertisers from it either. sorry.
If this were MY forum and I had only my own liabilty issues to consider, then I'd say, provided the facts are there and all the "i's" are dotted and the "t's" are crossed, fine. But this is NOT my forum, I do NOT make the rules.
There are endless hosts out there offering free web space. Perhaps you can all band together and set up your own "bad breeder beware" site and submit it to the search engines?
***Edited By: pyrmom on 6/13/2006 9:26:19 PM*** Reason: *
Moderators--this is where you are mistaken, my only intention to mention this in the forum was not to hide my identity, hold this site responsible, or to have any one person fix the problem, I just wanted to put up the 'BE AWARE SIGN" up and let people who might be interested in purchasing pom puppies aware of these particular PERSONS who are selling sick pom puppies without the "good health bill" without a "kennel license" etc. There are far too many "puppy mills" for us all to handle. But if we can stop just one by preventing someone to get into a position of buying a puppy and having it die within 10 days, then I see nothing wrong with that. The appropriate people on this site have been notified, authorities are doing their job, (faster than we could expect to say the least) but a little extra help just makes it more successful for these cruel people to stop. The true stated facts from NBC Channel 4, KESQ, NBC 30, Mercury News can be read at abusepets.com, case #3835, Classsification: Neglect--Orange County CA---Let readers read for themselves.
Krisicle64, you can post articles about abuse if you like. That's allowed even if the article does mention a breeder by name. Just post the link. BTW, that site you posted wouldn't come up for me, but I do know who your talking about. If it's two guys that sell poms and promised to hand deliver them to anywhere in the U.S...I actually bet you to it. I posted that article on here months ago. I had actually had those guys site saved prior to stumbling upon that article when I was considering poms.
I'm too lazy right now to search for that hold thread. But later on I'll try to find it.
I really wish there was a search option on this site, or a way for us to look up threads that we started. Kinda like a favorites section. Oh well...
Again, we all despise bad breeding practices, puppy mills, scammers , animal abuse, etc. But the rules are the rules, we get to play here for free, so that is the swap. If you would like to try to change this, than the ADMIN is who you should contact. The mods dont make the rules, they are simply volunteers of the forum here to see the rules are followed.