UTOPIA -Ruby 05 I do not see how it is cruel to the breed when no one thinks and English Bulldog is cruel... I love all bully breeds from Englis Bulldog to Pit Bulls and think they are all great dogs. They are all completely different and I do wish that they would come up with a new name for the new era bully or so called Pit Bull. They have no gameness to them at all and have to be treated like a Bulldog and not a Pit Bull. I do own both and love both breeds alot.
Utopia, I also am of the opinion that the english bulldog is bred with no regards to its welfare, there are a few breeds that have been bred to extreme without an ounce of consideration. I love all dogs and they all hold their special appeal but we have to step outside the square and think of their welfare instead of our own selfish likes and dislikes. The original pitbull is a healthy specimen but those that are bred low to the ground and out at the shoulders are not healthy dogs and I really feel for them. Why do people have to go overboard? wait I know the answer to that, because these individuals that breed in this manner are forever trying to create a new look in order to make money; they are no different to DD or puppy mills in my books, any dog loving and ethical individual would not breed for such extremes that so obviously cause discomfort to the dog.
Utopia, here is a photo that I have downloaded of a pitbull that is "low to the ground." I think breeders are moving away from what a pitbull should look like into a dog that is not even vaguely similar to the original, this fellow looks more like an english bulldog than a pitbull.
That dog in that picture shouldn't be called a APBT ,but something else. This new breeding is detrimental to the breed. Both of my dogs now Piper and Tigger are true specimens to the breed. Except Piper is even a little bigger then the standard Pit,bit Tigger is exact.For these new low riders ,the body conformation is not healthy for these poor dogs.This breed is going in 2 extremes ,extremely large ,or extreme low and wide. These breeders brag calling them monster freaks. It's all for money with no regard for these poor dogs well being!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!These people are uneithical .
Jackie i'm so sorry about your dogs fight.Do you know what caused it?Maybe try the reintroduction a little slower.I've never really had that problem in the house hold with multi Pits ,just with strange dogs,hence the reason why Tigger lives more isolated then Piper.My friend has the same problem with her dogs Harley and Rudy though .They can never be together in the same room.They are totally seperated.
Thank you for your concern. What happened was...We brought the new puppy Siona out on the patio (which is fenced in 6' high) and Skye, the brindle male, and Lacee, the female, were outside in the main yard and Skye barked at the pup, pi$$ed off Lacee (from what we gathered) and she attacked him. It really was that simple. We got her off before she could do much damage, and put her in a seperate fenced area. It was sooo quick, didnt even realize what was happening at first. But he will be fine, we "doctored" him up with peroxide, iodine, and antibiotic ointment and wrapped his bite. (he slept with us last night,,,lol)
Anyways,,,I agree with Ruby and rednosered. The new "bully" breeds are getting out of hand. I have a Gotty/Greyline female which is from the "bullies", but she looks nothing like some of these dogs you see. She weighs 53lbs and is 7 months old, she is taller than some of the others with the same bloodline, (about 18 - 20") and is still growing. Then I have 2 that are Brooks bloodline which is the "original" APBT look. I think that to have them shorter and stockier is unhealthy also, I mean come on, they have no height on them and little legs to carry all that weight. And no, the dog in that pic shouldn't be considered a pit, looks too much like a bulldog.
Jackie i've never had 3 Pits at one time ,just 2 . I know from my friend who has 3 dogs ,the same thing happened .Sometimes throwing a 3rd dog in can mess with the balance.Give it time and very slow supervised intros.Even when Punch our nieghbors Boxer comes over ,3 dogs it changes their balance. a lot of times we have to put one dog in and alternate their play.They become too aggressive .
One time I came home from work ,and all 3 dogs where playing .Piper greeted me ,then Punch barked at me ,Piper bared her teeth at Punch for the bark,Tigger ended it by jumping on poor Punch and trying to get a good hold on his neck. It happend so fast. My hubby grabbed Tig by the back legs and nose and lifted her off and put her in the house.It least Punch didn't get hurt to badly.Tigs ok with Punch again , we gave them some time and slow a slow intro .
Piper adores Punch and sighs when he comes over if you can believe it.
~~Rednosered~~ We have 5 dogs, and my Rottie is the best, he is sooo laid back it's pathetic LOL,,he gets along with all of them. My oldest pit, Lacee, only gets along with Loki (the rott) now. We are not going to do anymore intros,,,too dramatic for me. She is in the run on the side of the house, and we are in the process of building kennels (runs) for the others, just dont want to take any chances. We will let Skye and Sugar or him and Siona run together, and rotate the others around.
You have pits right? How did your hubby get him off the boxer so quickly? My hubby wants to get one of those pig prongs that give them a shock when poked incase they fight again so we dont get bit again. (they say it works, but I need to check on the voltage first, I dont want to hurt them) They sell them at the feed store for like $60 and up, depending on the size you want, I think a lower "dosage" will do the trick without harming them. What do you think? Sound too mean, or no????
I do have 2 breaking sticks ,but I never used them. The way he got Tig off of Punch was by grabbing her around the waist from behind of her,the pulling up on her nose with the tip of his fingers around the top of her head . It's always worked for her.He carried her into the house with his hands around her back side ,her front side hanging down . She seemed calm,but if he put her down right then ,she would've went back to really hurt Punch.This is the method he's always used for her.For 2 Pits fighting I think the voltage prong is the answer.Enough shock to ditract them and grab them.
When Noey was alive it happened 2 times in one day where Tig and Noey got into it . I don't even know what caused it ,it happened so fast.My son was home ,he grabbed one dog ,and I grabbed the other one.It's scary.In a short amount of time they can so much damage.
Piper and Tig got into a fight over raw hide bones. No more of those around the house.
I personally know a guys that owns a pit bull and she is probably the sweetest pit bull that I have ever come across. She is trained very well and is very friendly but don't underestimate her she will tear into you if she feel threatened, or if her owner feels threatened. It's all about the owner's of the dogs. And far as them being agressive around dogs, her owner tied her up in a backyard with other pit bulls that she doesn't even know and they got along very well. When I bring my dog over....I have a rottweiler, and they got along excellent the very first time they me. Now my dog on the other hand had to kind of get use to her, because he's a little agressive, but it all worked out fine.
These dogs are trained to act the way they act. These are not bad dogs and if trained and treated right they will make excellent pets.
I sure hope I misunderstood what you were saying and that you were not "implying" that I am a bad owner.
My dogs are great with the kids and cats, but when something "triggers" it, she (Lacee) will attack. She is not aggressive my any means, she's a big couch/bed potato, but if she feels threatened by another dog, she will fight back. I'm glad that your friends dogs all get along, but like rednosered said, watch it, it happens sooo fast, you dont really have a chance to react. Any little thing could get them going! And 2 pits fighting,,,wow
(Jackie17) I'm not stating your a bad owner because any dogs reacts agressively when they feel threatened. In my opinion your a bad owner when you teach your dog to attack any dog on-site, your a bad owner when you beat your dog and assume it's making then meaner and stronger. From what you just said it seems like you have a very loving and caring dog and that's fine, so don't take what I said personally.
I love the looks of that dog and where did you get that picture from? Who is that dog because I have seen him before and he looks like a nemesis son. I know most of the fad kennels you are talking about that are ruining the breed. I know the breeders and know that they do charge alot for there dogs but they put alot of care into there dogs and if you do not know somone personally then its not ok to attack them just because you dont like the looks of there dogs. I do agree that they should not be called Pit Bulls and they should all register through the ABKC and most are starting to do that. I personally love the look of the true APBT and the new bully version. I know alot of these people and we have events and get togethers all the time. Some of the dogs are way off in the extreme but as for most they are good looking bullies. I know that "they do it for the money" will always be thrown in because people dont understand change nor like it and that is one of the first comebacks. Anyone who doesnt breed says the other person does it for the money. Would you breed and give away your puppies? I know that these dogs are valued and they look at these puppies like the next big thing. Would you give away something that means that much to you and that you created and cared for? These dogs cost so much because in the breeders eyes they are worth that much to them. Does any breeder on this board whelp a litter and raise it just to give them away?
I personally know some of these people and they have devoted all there time and money into these dogs just to see what they can produce. There are houndreds of breeds and they were all created at one point so why is it so bad that the bullier style pit ( that is in no way worse than a english bulldog or bulldog type) comes about? I agree with the fact that they should not be called or registered as Pit Bull's but why do you hate these people so much? I love the looks of most of these dogs and know for a fact that if the kennels did not get moeny for trying to produce what they like they would do it anyways.
Jackie its too bad they got into a fight again but I know for sure if you released there energy more (and I know you think you do it plenty) and were faithful with making sure they are all exercised to where they are actually drained of energy and are happy and submissive around each other it wouldnt be dramatic. I introduce new dogs in my pack all the time and after a few days they do pretty good and its becuase they know I am watching and everyone of my dogs knows me as alpha. I also know you love your dogs to death (as do I) and you treat them like your kids. I think maybe its a fact that they know your really not in charge but your the momma who loves me so much figure... Do not get offended by this because you know I love you..
When owning multiple pits you will have little fights break out over dumb stuff but I have never been bit and never had to take one to the vet. I just walk outside and say "hey" and my dogs all stop and run up to me. I do not ever allow intense play and I can tell by my dogs body language when something is not going smooth. I can read my dogs the second they wake up and know what kind of mood they are in. My female Hannah is alpha amoung all the dogs and there are times I know she is going to go outside to bully everyone around. I can stop it before it starts. I also have the luxury of staying home with my dogs and spending so much time with them to be able to know there every mood and predict what they will do.
This post is way to long but the bottom line is you cant help what you like. If you love a look then that is what you will breed because you breed what you like. I never knew anyone to love a breed and breed something else just because its accepted more. These new bullier dogs are not agressive and game at all so maybe they will be accepted by society better?
Ruby05 nevermind about where the dog came from. I know who he is and he is looking good like his daddy. That is Mugglestons Socrates. He may not be the type of dog for everyone but he is a bad as@ dog. He should not be classified as a pit but none the less I cant deny I like him.
Utopia ,all i'm saying is these new fad Pits are not the true APBT. They are not bred to physical standard. I believe that a lot of these breeders are doing it for fast cash with no regards to the dogs physical well being. That's sad. If you take a good look at these poor dogs you can see how in time physically they will wind up with severe health problems.
Why do people need to change something that has worked for hundreds of years. The true APBT has always been of sound mind and body. Now you have these fad breeders changing a otherwise healthy physical dog.
There is something very wrong with this.
Are Dobies being changed , Shelties , GSD , or any other dogs ? I can't accept a beautiful breed being ruined by a fad.
Lastly when a breeder breeds ,such breeder breeds to better the breed ,not for a fad look. This look is not bettering the breed.I agree to dilute the gameness , and over years da. But not hurt the breed by this fad look .
rednosered.... I have been saying that all along that they are not Pit Bulls they are mixed-- anyone who denies that is ignorant. I do not worry about the breed being ruined because there are great breeders and 100's of bloodlines out there that are true to the breed. There is really only a handfull of bloodlines that are a joke as Pit Bulls. If they want to try and create something that they are proud of then I do not see what is wrong with that. I do not think they should still be registering them under UKC Pit Bull and even AKC Stafforshire Terriers but until the registries do something about it, it will continue. I love the looks of the newer bullier dogs (to a point). That dog Socrates she posted above is a good looking dog. I do not consider him a good looking Pit Bull but a great looking bully none the less. (there is your answer Scout1) I love the true American Pit Bull Terrier and it is not hard to find one nor is the breed in danger of being ruined. The backyard breeders have been doing it for years and we still have our strong bloodlines and breeders that hold true to the breed. When I go to these pit bull events and most of them are the bully breed not the true Pit Bulls. The people that own these dogs are not in it for the money rather than the dog they created and the status. They are super proud of them and love the looks and to see what everyone else is producing. They want a dog to show off but doesnt most. Do we all not love are dogs and boast about them and want people to look at them and say what a great dog? I do it with my poodles too. Look at Razors Edge bloodline and everyone who knows a little about pits knows that line. It started out as game dogs with more show quality around Throwin Nuckles and with all the GMJ stuff being the foundation etc. They were producing consistant looking pit bulls then all of a sudden here comes Cairo, Short Shot and Buck Shot (all the older top dogs of the day) and they are supposedly producing these crazy over done bullies. I myself find it hard to believe that this line all of a sudden just started producing freaks from a great consistant foundation. I know and you know that somewhere something else was crossed to get this bloodline to where it is today or papers were hung somewhere. The way I look at it is that is on Dave Wilson and his bloodline. That is not going to harm any other bloodline other than Razors Edge. I love the looks of the Razors Edge dogs and own several. I know for sure that I have a bully breed with those dogs and not a American Pit Bull Terrier. They have already started there own registry and I am sure in a few years they will be primarily using the ABKC. I think it is great because I love the bullies and I love the APBT too. They need to be classified as two different dogs. Until the AKC and UKC start to buck then no one is going to jump off. I in no way do not disagree with you about most but my opinion is a little different because I do love the Bully breed and do not think its cruel how they are bred. No one thinks Chows, Mastiff's, Boxers, English Bulldogs, Pugs or Boston Terriers are cruel (all are prone to some kind of health problems).. So why a bigger version of all these is so cruel? I dont know because I own them and they love to weight pull and play and get riled up just like my Pits do. They just no where near have the grace or wind to go as long as the real deal. I think as long and you know the difference then like what you like reguardless of what people think.
I am the owner of a 7 month old pitt bull. I have raised this dog to friendly with everyone. He will not even growl at strangers. The only thing is he is aggressive to strange dogs that come around and wants to fight them. Yes, pitt bulls are aggressive, but I think the trick is to channel their aggression through play and other activities such as walking, etc. I live in the county and my pitt bull has never been on a chain or inside of a fence. Therefore, he gets to run around the country side to his heart's content. I think this really helps to drain a lot of his aggressive energy. Keeping a pitt bull busy and active releases pent up energy. Also, we go riding in our jeep on deserted dirt roads by our house and my dog runs behind us the whole way. He absolutely loves it! By the time he is done running around, he's too tired to be aggressive. He has also been raised as a family member, not just as a dog that's thrown out in the yard and forgotten about. He gets as much attention as my kids. If you are unable to provide your pitt bull with adequate activity and proper attention, perhaps you would be better off owning a different breed of dog.
It's great that your pup is getting some great exercise BUT that is NOT channelling his aggression! Your pup is not old enough yet to figure out is it will be DA or not. It usually does not show until about a year or older. Also letting him run around the "country side" unleashed and unsupervised is NOT and I will repeat NOT at all good in anyway!!!!!!!!!!! Your dogs needs to be fenced in if unsurprised. You are going to create another Bad Press Release letting your pup run around. PLUS lets not forget about getting hit back a car attacked by a wild animal, getting into something it should not. Also if you are in farming country or have farms around your dog could possible get in contact with a farm animal, if so your pup could possibly kill a farm animal , law suite and also another bar rep press release. Also you have to remember farmers will shoot to KILL if there is a stray dog in their farm, and It's legal to do so!!!
-he is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of