Take a beagle and lock it in the house for months and when it comes out it is likely to still be all smiles. Don't socialize a pit(or many other breeds) and its a whole nother story.
that said I'm the one with the viscious beagle! :)
Take two pups from the smae litter. One is involved with the family,goes out with them,meets people. the other sits on a chain in the back yard,never sees anyone. the one on the chain is going to be more likely to be a little nutty because it lacks any social skills-but even then there are some pits that have been dragged through the mudd and still wag their tail and I'd trust them. It really jsut depends.
***Edited By: joce on 8/8/2006 5:51:09 PM*** Reason: t
Well... another response from a non-pitbull owner (hope you don't mind).
I think that there are some breeds of dogs that quite honestly, you can make a lot of training mistakes with and still be ok. I have a beagle mix that was abused and he is still an AMAZING dog. I had to get him used to being around men... but he never turned aggressive. I had a shih tzu that we never really trained... he was a nipper.. but at 10 lbs - he never did any damage.
There are some breeds though that are higher maintenance... and I think that you have to know how to handle them. Pitbulls, rotties, dobermans even... not because they're "vicious dogs" - but because the consequences of not properly socializing and training your dog can be deadly. I have loved every pitbull, rottie and doberman I have ever come in contact with. However, I am not confident that I have what it takes to be an owner of any of these breeds. I have an 8 year old son who is at times rambuctious, whiny and ... well 8. He has friends in and out of the house all the time... I don't know that I would ever feel comfortable... and that tells me that I'm better off with my beagles.
People need to know what raising any breed of dog entails and make their decisions accordingly... that's what people mean by "It's all in how you raise them."
I think the saying probably goes for pretty much any breed. However, not all breeds have the giant plethora of jerks who deliberately breed and raise them in cruel ways to make them "tough" or agressive.
A dog who is kept on a 3-foot logging chain and only sees people long enough to be beaten with a board with nails in it, starved and then presented with the neighbor's cats, full of worms and never any affection, is just more likely to be agressive than a dog who is loved and treated well.
That is not to say that bad people don't get beagles and abuse or neglect them, but it isn't so typical as it is with pit bulls.. Unfortunately, there are many pit bulls raised in terrible conditions like the above, exponentially more so than any other breed. (If you don't understand WHY, I can go into that as well, but for now I am assuming most know) So while some pit bulls, just like some individuals of other breeds, can come through all that and still be sweet and loving, others can be damaged forever and be agressive and mistrusting of humans; again, same as any other breed.
A well-raised pit bull is no more likely than any other breed to be agressive. But we hear the saying more regarding pit bulls because people see the horrors when dog fighting rings are busted, etc, and assume that that all pits are agressive and or timid. The saying is not as popular for beagles because there are not huge masses of beagles being tortured and mistreated as the norm.
***Edited By: shinyblackpit on 8/9/2006 12:28:15 PM*** Reason: typo. getting used to a new keyboard
What it means is how you raise a dog (OF ANY BREED) will effect how that dog turns out in temperament and attitude. Not just with Pit Bulls, but including Pit Bulls, they are not genetically evil like some people think. They are either raised wrong or poorly bred.
In Joce's example I disagree if you lock a Beagle in a room for months with no training and no socialization it is likely to come out fearful and skittish, the same holds true for Pit Bulls I infact knew a pit kept like this, the people claimed she was SPOILED because she was kept locked in a tiny room in the basement. Their male was outside in a fenced yard on his chain. The female was hardly ever let out and lived in a dark little feces covered room, the male was walked just about everyday and played with but she was the lucky one? When I met the male he was very friendly, outgoing and confident I wouldn't say he was a master at obediance but he knew how to sit, stay and come. When I went down to see the female she had to be drug out of the room because she was so scared, the lady said remember she hasn't been out of there in 2 weeks so she's going to be a little hyper, but she was scared of me because she didn't know me and had never been socialized, she also didn't know any commands because she would jump and scratch the boy, then they tried to take her for a walk and unlike the male who enjoyed it she would jump at noises she heard and not walk with her head up.
Many Pit Bulls come from abusive and neglective homes, this doesn't stop them from being "all smiles", they are one of the most forgiving breeds. You can beat them and use them as bait dogs and they never offer to bite the person who's abusing them. Thats one thing that is kind of sad, cowards can beat the life and spirit out of them but they would never harm that person. I have a dog that was starved and beaten and she isn't the least bit mean, just scared of strangers, she will back away from them and keep to herself while with me its a totally different story since she got used to me and realized I wasn't going to hurt her. She wags her tail, plays with me, licks me, but other people she will still never trust.
Anyway if you raise a dog improperly it is likely that the dog will be a risk to other some fear aggressive dogs including Pit Bulls will bite, others have dominance aggression problems and they will bite/attack especially if they are poorly bred, a lot is how a raise a dog but how a dog is bred can be an issue to. If you raise a dog to be aggressive and encourage its aggressive behavior then thats what it will be, how you raised it. Dogs only want to please us in most cases and if acting vicious pleases their owner thats what they think is right and thats what they will do. Breeding also has part of it you can take a wellbred dog and turn it into a bad dog by raising it wrong and you can take a dog who's not bred well and raise it properly and it still has temperament problems that are genetic. This is in any breed.
***Edited By: true_pits on 8/9/2006 12:43:10 PM*** Reason: ..
PitPat2AZ, you brought up some excellent points, especially about chains, neutering and fighting. From what I understand, it's a culture divide that you share with the Barrio that doesn't come so much from economics as it does how people were raised to think of dogs.
Food for thought: I can bash pit bulls left and right, day and night, but do you know what the #1 trait that dogs involved in fatal dog maulings share? It isn't the breed, it's the fact that they're not neutered.
We have a rescue pitbull, have had her for years. She is just like any of our other dogs because we treat her the same as our other dogs. Sally loves people and is great with other dogs, loves to play with them. When I need to leave the house she is crated. Not because she is a pitbull, but simply because she is a bigger dog than our doxies. Just common sense. Doxies can be obnoxious to other dogs sometimes. I trust all my dogs fully, but you never know what COULD happen, so just to be safe all dogs that are larger than the doxies are crated when nobody is home. I would do that even with a lab. The nastiest dog with strangers here weighs about 5 pounds.
Um, NoDogYet... Have you ever seen kiyote post anything other then a negative about pitbulls? It gets tiresome. You hardly see kiyote, then a post a topic gets started about pitbulls and there kiyote is.
I hardly call what I said, cause for alarm in working on myself. Thanks for following what I post and for that inspiring comment though... seeing the way others behave can be fascinating and it really helps!
***Edited By: pope1982 on 8/10/2006 3:03:56 PM*** Reason: grammatical error
No, Pope is right. Kiyote Has always had an immense hatred for the pit bull. And NoDog, you're right, too. Kiyote is entitled to his opinion. We choose to ignore it, though, as he's shoving it down our throats.
Kiyote has devoted a whole website dedicated to his scorn for pit bulls with a small gathering of members. That's his choice, too.
This pet forum is designed for all dog lovers. We ignore members of leftist dog haters.
It just really bothers me that there are regular posters who actually add things to this forum and are a joy to read....Then along comes this person which for some unknown reason, has this weird thing with pitbulls.
It is easy for the members who know to ignore it, but people who have no idea and are doing a search for the first time and find this site get stuck reading ONLY the negative articles kiyote posts or the crap that gets thrown around about them. The cycle starts all over again.
It's like telephone or snowball when you are a kid. Fear, has proved in the past to be contagious.