Before I decided to raise this question to this forum, I knew it was going to bring about a debate, so I'll go ahead and say now, I didn't intend for any fighting, but what can you do? Even in a thread you post that you think is completely non-debatable, there always seems to be one!
So here's my question, how would you feel if docking and cropping were banned in your area? Would it change your outlook on owning the breed? I'm eager to know. And when I say banned, I don't mean, it's talking about being banned and you want to stop it, I mean it is BANNED, done for, GONE!!
This would never affect me, but I'm curious. None of my breeds have any of that done to them. (I prefer it that way).
My opinion on this issue has changed over the last few months. I used to be totally apposed to the bill. I own 2 English Springer Spaniels, which by American breed standard their tails are docked. Now, in England, where they originate, they have full tails. After meeting some English and German bred springers, I've fallen in love with the full tails.
BUT, I still don't think the government has ANY right EVER to tell me what I can and cannot do with my own pet. Docking a tail is not abuse. Its done when the animal is extremely young and given anti pain meds beforehand.
I'm really not a fan of ear cropping and that does hurt the dog, so I'm not sure where I stand on that end.
IF there was a ban, I would likely to the tails and dew claws anyway. Fine me.
I haven't used a vet for that in years. My last litter I actually went to a vet because my mentor moved and guess what? He didn't do as good of job by far. He cut about 1/2 of them too short and they bled a lot, even after the stitch. I was right there in the room with him. He didn't do anything special.
Next time I will just pay for my friend to come and do it.
I was taking mollie to the vet and there was a man with five JRT puppies that were there to get their tails docked. I have never heard such crying, they were yelping and screaming, the young vet tech even came out crying. I don't agree with docking tails/cropping ears. Its gotta hurt. But I won't judge people who do have it done to their dogs.
Well, I hear question, again my breed does not get cropped. But I would be all for the bill. I think that again cropping and docking for vanity is not necassary and also ears and tails are the two biggest factors in a dogs body language. when you crop and dock you are removing part of the dogs ability to communicate clearly.
***Edited By: gunny on 8/8/2006 8:29:14 PM*** Reason: w
Not to be mean, but that vet tech needs to grow up or maybe she is in the wrong field. There isn't anything that I haven't been present for, including necropsy of my own puppies/dogs. Different vets crop/dock different ways.
Docking at a few days doesn't bother me as much as an actual surgery for ear cropping at 8 weeks-- and it is a pain in my butt. I just picked up 3 puppies who had their ears cropped yesterday. It is so hard to keep them away from their littermates so their ears don't get hurt.
bogle ...... puppies are docked by the time they are 3 days old because the nerve endings in the tails are not fully formed so it does not hurt them. yes puppies will squeek and make noises but i have yet to hear ones who carry on like you have descirbed. once the procedire is done ... which is typically no more then a minute per tail ... they are quiet again in their baskets with their siblings like nothing ever happened.
seriously ..... if the vet tech cried over watching a tail docking procedure ... either the vet was doing something horribly wrong to those puppies or she is definitely in the wrong career.
as far as answering the original OP ..... i seem to be naturally attracted to breeds where cropping and docking is not part of the standard. so i cannot say how i would feel if it was banned entirely. i do know that i would probably not ever own a doberman if i couldnt crop or dock it. that is the only breed IMO that looks completely ridiculous with ears and a tail. all the other traditionally cropped and docked breeds look just as good to me with tails and ears.
I don't really know what I would do. I would not give up my breed but might move to an area that still allowed it.
I have been in love with dobermans for over 30 years now and the ears are part of the attraction for me. If it was banned nation wide I would still have my dobermans, but if given a choice I think I would move to another state that still allowed it because I will not give up my breed
I think it is okay to do the tails, but I am against ear croppings even though some breeds like the Dobi look better with their ears cropped. Boxers to me look better with ears than they do with them cropped. The reason I hate ear croppings is because I rescued a Boxer and when we got her, her ears were pretty much cut off. She is the sweetest and most intelligent dog. The people we got her from took her to have her ears cropped they messed them up so they said they took her back and they got them too short..They weren't kidding! Her ears are also scarred on the edges. I will have to get her picture downloaded so everyone can see them. Even though her ears are messed up she is a wonderful Boxer.
I'm perfectly fine with docking and cropping if done correctly be a vet. Niether of my breeds have it done, but one day I would love to have a Rottie, Dobe and a Pit Bull, in the distant future, my hands are as full as they can be right now. I've seen the Rott's and Dobe's with tails and I think it looks horrible, in my opinion. And a Dobe or Pit look to goofy with natural ears, again in my opinion. If there was a ban I would import my dogs from a country with out a ban after they had their tails or tails and ears done. If done correctly the pups feel little to no pain. I've stood and watch pups get their tails docked and dew claws removed when I worked at a vet clinic when I was a teen, and yes the pups cried, but moments after they were done they were quiet and sleeping again.
I don't really like the idea of vanity cropping and docking but if done properly there shouldn't be any pain to the dog and a ban shouldn't be necessary. I don't know about the cropping (I'm not sure why or how it originated) but tail docking is usually done in very athletic, energetic breeds because these breeds are prone to getting some pretty nasty tail injuries. You see it a lot in hunting dogs even though docking is not considered "traditional" in those breeds because they get so excited and have such long tails thrashing around sometimes injuries are unavoidable. I have seen some sites indicating that in places where cropping/docking for vanity is banned there is usually an exception made for medical reasons. One of our dogs actually has a vet appointment for surgery tomorrow morning for an ear haematoma. She had the same surgery on the same ear 2 years ago and if she weren't already elderly I'd consider asking the vet to do some sort of trim to reduce the chances of it happening again. As it is she has to go through some pre-op testing to make sure she can handle surgery. She has a habit of flopping her ears loudly when she wants something. Maybe that is why people get dog's ears cropped (I'm guessing here).
***Edited By: arachyd on 8/8/2006 10:46:01 PM*** Reason: add
Good question...It would affect the appearance of my dogs obviously. Miniature Pinschers' tails are usually docked and their ears are usually cropped. For Showing this would be an issue, but to have them as pets, it would not bother me. Although seeing a Min Pin with uncropped ears doesn't bother me, but it would be odd to see one with a full tail. I have seen it, but I think it would be different if he/she were my own. And for Yorkshire Terriers' their tails are usually docked too. Again for Showing, this would be an issue, but to have them as pets, same thing, wouldn't bother me. I have seen Yorkies with normal tails, doesn't look too odd. Guess I can't really answer this question, because it hasn't happened but it would change alot....fair enough
I think Rottweilers are gorgeous with tails, they are not long and slanky at all. They are actually more like a Labrador's tail. Dobermans do have rather houndish tails, but, their breeding has not been focused on their tails, and it can be fixed in time.
I oppose both practices unless it is for stern medical reasons. I don't think we should change the way our dogs look, through surgery, as if they were humans in a beauty pagent. That's JMO.
If a whole country banned docking, the show standards would definitely be changed to accomodate. There are reputable breeders in every country, but the ones most easily accessible mostly have banned these practices as well, so importing a dog wouldn't be enough of an option to keep the showdog's life alive.