Merico - I guess kids have to come first because they are our future. They come first because they are humans. MY kid comes first because I carried him for 9 months, have the stretch marks to prove it and he is MY CHILD. If that's not reason enough - because if I do a bad job raising my child - the consequences are that there is an adult out there in the world who doesn't know right from wrong. If I do a bad job raising my dog - he gets put in a cage or pts... the consequences are much tougher with humans.
Why start a worthless argument? I support your right to not have children. I support the fact that you don't particularly LIKE children. There are days when I can even understand it... But at the end of any given day my CHILD is the most important thing in the world to me and there is nothing that I wouldn't do to keep him safe and sound and to let him know he's loved.
A child is a human life. Can you honestly say that dogs should come before people?
If a building is burning down, full of people and dogs, who should we try to save first?
If we have limited resources to devote toward health research, should we be primarily concerned in researching human health, or the health of our pets?
If a famine fell over the entire planet, should we be willing to share our limited supply of food with our pets, or focus first on feeding ourselves?
Obviously these are all very hypothetical situations..we are lucky enough that our species thrives and we are able to devote so much of our resources to our pets. But to question whether or not children should come before pets is the same thing.
**** Edited to add: I agree that children are not for everyone. I don't know if I want children. If I come to the conclusion that I would personally be happier not to have kids and just to have animals, that is what I'm going to do. I have no problem with that. But in society and in individual families, I think it is a sad thing if pets come before children.
***Edited By: JWE1986 on 8/18/2006 7:21:32 PM*** Reason: add
I would believe that the vast majority of society would say that no one should put pets in a higher category than human children. To do so goes against nature it's self.
Only on a pet oriented forum would this be any type of choice at all. I mean why stop at dogs.... I am sure there are some 'odd' individuals that like spiders, snakes and fish more than human children. To each thier own, but I am very glad that for the most part people still like their children more than their pets.
Heaven help our future when the majority of people start thinking more of pets than children.
Now, I don't have kids (human), I'm only twenty. But I have 4 furry children. I personally am not a kid person (just kids in between 6 and 12). But if a building was burning down full of dogs and children, the kids would come first. But I would run into a burning building after all the kids were safe and save all the dogs too.
pleading the 5th on the child issue. i would surely be hung for my response.
humans are not the end all that we would like to think of ourselves as. i often wish there would be a species above us as we have a lot to learn. and unfortunately, the best teachers we could have are the ones we feel we are superior too.
Without a doubt 4 leggers. No 2 leggers for me, never.
I don't do children. I don't go near them and they don't go near me. Don't like kids, and will never have them.
My dogs, birds, cats, etc. are my children. And they're all I need.
Scout1, I could not agree with you more. :)
I agree with you too, the lifeofriley. Like you said, they may not be as smart as us with computers and such, but they are smarter in things that really matter. I think they will last longer than humans in the long run.
***Edited By: laredos_mom on 8/18/2006 9:14:35 PM*** Reason: x
My parents and I had a heated discussion about a very similar topic tonight at dinner. My dad commented on how people say animals are so smart, but they don't build hospitals and yada yada yada. IMHO, animals are more intelligent than us in that sense. They don't need technology and cars and all that.
Most animals are probably smarter than us. Maybe not when it comes to things like computers, but in other senses. Look at dogs that can sniff out cancer and find bombs. Humans can't do that.
***Edited By: thelifeofriley on 8/18/2006 9:12:41 PM*** Reason: add
>> pleading the 5th on the child issue. i would surely be >> hung for my response.
>> humans are not the end all that we would like to think >> of ourselves as. i often wish there would be a species >> above us as we have a lot to learn. and >>unfortunately, the best teachers we could have are the >> ones we feel we are superior too.
I agree-- one of the best things about dogs is that we humans can learn so much from them. I agree that in many ways that are important, dogs may be considered "smarter" than lots of people. I can even agree that dogs may be more pleasant to be around than lots of people (and children).
But, I still hold human life more important and primary to an animal. Children are people. Human feelings, thoughts, emotions, etc. To me, comparing dogs to children is like comparing dogs to fish.
Generally, you will provide for your fish, care for your fish, do everything in your power to make your fish's life the best possible. But when forced to choose between your fish and your dog, is there really any contest?
Go to a non-pet board and see what 'normal' people think of that response. It is just morally wrong to say that you would save an animal--pig--goat--horse--or dog before a human.
Why not compare fish to dogs? Some people are as fanatical (sp) about fish as others are dogs....they give them personalities and cute little traits.
As far as animals being smart because they can sniff out bombs.....I disagree. That has little to do with being more intelligent than a person....better sense of smell--heck yes, of course.
That is a BASIC positive and negative reward response studied in first year psyhcology in pavlovian behaviorism.... actually pavlov worked with dogs. Ringing the bell and they salivate? Ring any bells people?
Can people learn things from dogs? Yes, undying devotion and love and thinking of the 'pack' instead of themselves, which is something most people really could learn a lot from.
>> Comparing dogs to fish? Fish do not show emotions, >> unlike a dog or cat would.
Which is why I can't even compare the two. For me, comparing dogs to children is not much different. I cannot image saving a dog from a burning building over a child, just like I can't imagine saving a fish over a dog.
I agree that we as humans could learn alot from our pets. They are certainly more loving, more trusting, more forgiving and more loyal than we as humans are programmed to be.
I have watched my docile, loving dog defend my son and me when we were in danger. I have watched my dog watch over my son night after night since the day my son was born. I have given my 4 legged friend everything that is in my power to give... and I will continue to do so.
And if it came down to a choice between my dog and my son - I would make the same choice that my 4 legged friend would make... I would choose my son.
Merico - I'm glad that animals have such a friend in you... but I can honestly say that I hope that we're never in a position where my son's well-being would be in your hands. I understand why someone might not want children of their own, and I understand why someone might not like children - but how in the world someone can despise children as much as you seem to is beyond me. I can't comprehend it.
My child is the very best thing that has ever happened to me. My child has brought more joy into my life than I ever could have imagined - and certainly more that I deserve. He is my greatest challenge, my greatest fear, my greatest love, my greatest joy and by far my greatest accomplishment.
Children have feelings, emotions, and needs that go far beyond any animal.
I cannot even IMAGINE how I would have felt as a child if my mother had abandoned ME for a DOG. I could not, would not, EVER have been able to understand it. Or forgive her.
I would hope that no child is ever put in that position. No matter how obnoxious, bratty, or annoying that child is. Because underneath the loud obnoxiousness is still a child with human feelings. I really can't explain it any better than that. Other than that human consciousness, emotions, self-awareness even..are on a completely different level. And no child, no matter how "terrible," deserves to be abandoned by his own human family.