Many of you know me, some of you don't for I have not posted in several weeks. However, I am posting becuase I am almost mad and its a long long ranting post.
I have 2 six month old puppies avaliable for placement. For those of you who do not know me I am a show breeder of afghan hounds who sucks at selling puppies and tends to have them meandering around here for months.
These are both black males, sweet tempered, socilized, leash broken, crate trained, house broken, in general good cheerful six month old puppies. One of them is missing the tip of his tail due to an accident around his birth that damaged it. The other would be pick of the litter if he didn't have white haws (third eyelid) and for some that dosen't matter but I really can't do two haws thou I will do one (see his sister and half sister).
Anyway, had a rather nice guy come and meet them on thursday. Let him meet the boys, their sisters, their mom aunt, and all my other afghans, as well as see my dog areas of the house (my dogs have 1/4 of my house as their personal space) so that he could see how they are raised.
After he met them we discussed price. Here is the problem. I told him that i was asking 1k for ether male. Some of you may die, others may not, but know this is in the middle of prices for pet afghan hounds. My dogs come with life time guaranties on health, lifetime take back I will help your groom and I will board for you if I can, as well as 24 hour help and etc.
His last dog was 350 dollars. That was also almost 20 years ago. It was also an afghan hound. The one he just lost was adopted from someone giving her away, so he was kinda floored by 1k. Thats fine, I explained many things to him including the fact that this litter was created through artifical frozen semin implantation which is why I only had five puppies in the first place, they are rather special.
So he asked me if I would tke 500 dollars for the pup with the tip of his tail missing. Thats the pup that likes him the most. My answer was no. Maybe I am a cold heart money hungry person, and many of you will feel that way, but know that i spend an adverage of 10 thousand dollars a year on my dogs showing and eventing as well as vet stuff in the areas of their hips and doing fun things like spending a 1500 bucks to get 5 puppies by frozen semin. I am not going to make money off of selling 2 puppies (I have 2 to sell, stud owner has one I kept 2) so I am just wallowing in the big money in puppy sales.
So he asked me why wouldn't I sell the defective puppy for less. I pointed out that 2 vertibra off the tip of his tail is hardly a defect, hes 6 months old and has all the wonderful stuff done, hes healthy and frankly I don't need to sell my dogs for a began to get rid of them. He asked what happens if he dosent sell, I looked at him and told him that they stay here and suggested he go meet a few other breeders in the area and look at other puppies and discuss price.
So face foward to today and he sends me an email becuase hes been thinking. He is going to go and look at other puppies since they may be the same rpice as a damaged puppy, but he really likes Shadow (my boy with the short tail) and am I thinking of a counter offer to give to him?
This is when I am almost mad. Not really mad becuase he is a nice person and dosent understand how offensive it can be to want to bargan. I told him nicely to go meet some other puppies and come back to me if he thinks Shadow is for him but that I do not counter offer, my dogs do not LOOSE value just becuase the tip of his tail is missing and there is absoutly no desperation.
So thats my long rant with complete back story. I am not yet mad, but another email could easily tip me over the edge.
To answer your question.. NO! I would not try to haggle the price of a dog, that would insult me too!
I don't think the majority of people have ANY idea what responsible breeders go through to raise a litter. They just see the puppies and parents and assume that you just put them together and had puppies. Obviously, you have *not* done that, you did the complete opposite.
Another home will come along if this one doesn't work out. I'm sure you'll choose to do the right thing. Good luck! :)
That is just the majority of America today. They want to find bargains although I am like you I wouldn't, but that is just how people are now days. You will find a lot of people like that whether it is buying pets, cars, clothes or whatever that is how it is. I would just tell him NO and stop wasting my time if he wasn't willing to pay what you want.
Wow moneymaker guess you don't know who you are talking to. I see no advertising.
Icyhound I don't blame you either. A puppy isn't really something I would expect people to "bargain" for. I would think the $1000 is the "pet price". I would consider Shadow's tail may have made him "pet quality" so that's his price! Stick to your guns. A forever home will come by.
Honestly, I would not price the puppy with the tail damage at the exact same price as the other male. That is just me.
I am constantly asked if I will take less, often the answer is no, some times, to the right family it is yes. I am generally very firm with my show prospects or those going with full breeding rights, but pet families, I some times negotiate.
You also have to think about if this will be the right family for your dog, besides the money. I mean, isn't it good to eventually get the OLDER puppy in to his permanent home? So he can bond and learn their rules of the house?
Weather you think so or not, the majority of 'puppy buyers' believe that anything over 4 month should be discounted. You don't have to agree, but you may also be keeping your puppy much longer. Then you are just eating the $1000 up in food, time, and vet care, not to mention becoming more and more attached to the puppy.
I don't want to offend you Icy, I am just offering another perspective. They are your puppies and it is ultimately your decision.
Well and I am not saying that her method is wrong and mine is right. Far from it. I just don't get offended any more. It is just what some people do. They always want to know if they can get a 'deal', it makes them feel better about it.
I personally set my prices on the high side and some times I am willing to come down, some times not. What I generally think is 'what does this puppy mean to my breeding program and bloodlines?' Then I think it will take XXX for me to let this puppy go.
Boys are a little bit harder, because.... I really don't like messing with boys. It is wrong but I am completely sexist. Keeping no boys and just going to Champion studs would suit me just fine:)
I know excatly what you are talking about! I show and breed shelties and I have people all of the time trying to get a quality puppy for nothing. And I won't negotiate on prices either, all prices are firm. Most tend to want a dog that is show quality but they only want a pet and they have no idea what work, time and money goes into get one show quality puppy. They quickly learn that I will not place a show quality puppy in a pet home and at pet price just to be neutered and sit on the couch. I rather end up keeping the puppy myself (since I will finish the dog) then to have him/her just in a pet home and never live up to their potential.
As far as prices on pet puppies, I currently ask $600 each for my pet quality puppies (which is actually below average) I've seen pet quality puppies from good breeders priced as high as $950 in my breed. The minute some people hear $600 they say" no, I just want a pet not a show dog" and then I have to correct them and tell them that is my pet price. Furthermore every pet puppy I sell is automatically sold on a spay/neuter contract and a limited registeration. If they will not agree to spay/neuter the dog and want to breed but not show then they don't get a puppy (this helps protect the puppies going to puppymill situations- since those type of people always try to get breeding rights for nothing).
I find that being very upfront with people before you ever meet them helps not waste as much of your time. When someone calls or e-mails me I tell them straight out my price, that it is firm and my conditions (spay/neuter ect). If they have a problem with that then there is no point in them coming to look at the puppy. Remember you have the right to refuse a sell! Furthermore keep in mind that if someone isn't willing to pay what you are asking for a puppy then they probably won't take very good care of the puppy. If they don't want one and can't afford one if is is over $250 (as an example) then how are they going to afford food, vet bills and lifetime care for the dog?
Don't let it upset you some people are idiots, nice or not if they don't value the dog enough to pay what he/she is worth then they don't deserve the dog. I have no doubt that you will find the right homes for your boys, you sound like a very responsible breeder and if people would research the breed they plan to get better they start contacting breeders they would know the average selling price for a puppy.
Actually I have been told I should offer the other puppy for no less then 1500 and have turned down two homes for him already. I am not offended.
I decided on 1k becuase nether parent is titled. The father has sired multiple champions in 3 countries and the mother has two pups on the way. Which I also told this gentleman. I don't feel a tail that was damaged so that the tip was taken off is a huge defect considering everything else.
I set my price and I stick by it. I am not worried about my dogs needing to go and bond to their new owners. As far as they are concerned I am their owner, and when they find their perment home, being the well adjusted and stable creatures they are. they will adjust fine.
Some may feel that pups loose value after 4 months. I don't. That is there price and that is where it will stay. We all have our opinions on it. I'm not worried about placing them if it takes 2 years it takes 2 years, if hes with me forever hes with me forever. I took the responsibility to breed them and that means taking care of them.
This is one of the reasons I can't see how people mange 3+ litters a year, but then I do admit that I suck when ti comes to sales. I've had a dozen offers for Echo and Envy but you can't pry those two girls outta my grip, so I guess selling isen't the high point of my breeding.
Most comments seem to be from breeders on this topic. So this is coming from the opposite side of that equation, the buyer :-)
I personally would never think of requesting a lower price from a breeder for whatever the reason. I paid very very close to that for each of my Poms, and I would have paid more. The reason I say that, is because I bonded and felt a connection with each of my babies right away. So money was never the issue for me, it was more..is this the right puppy that will be an addition to our family? I say stick to your prices, because IF this guy would be the right person he would not feel the need to negotiate price. My opinion :-)
I have been reading many of the postings on this site for a while now and I want to point out something to all of you…I know that what I am about to say will offend 99% of all of the readers seeing how most of you seem to be breeders. But this is an open forum and since everyone else is making comments I thought I would put in my two cents.
I have to say that with all the comments about how you guys are not in it for the money… and how you just want to better the breed… dogs should be of show quality to truly represent the breed to it’s fullest etc…I am amazed at how you, and every one else, now defend selling your 2 dogs at regular price. Two dogs who have defects or at least not show quality or true representatives of the breed.
Yet back yard breeders, some of witch do have the dogs best interest in mind, are bashed because they do offer a dog who is healthy, good temperaments, clean, help in raising them, and guaranties but for cheaper prices. All because they don’t show them or have them in agility programs or have them not papered.
I have had dogs with papers and pedigrees and dogs with no papers, and considered by most of you, poorer quality because they were from back yard breeders. I have seen no difference between my back yard dogs from my breeder dogs. For example one of my breeder dogs was put down early in life due to cancer. Yet my mutt from a mistake litter is going on 15 years old now. Go figure on that.
Now back to your unhappy dealings with a man who asked for a reduced price…it is after all a dog who is not 100% physically correct. And no I do not think it makes the dog any less lovable but I can see why he would think to ask you for the reduction in price, and think you might accept it. I do not think he intended to hurt your feelings but seeing how all of you are bashing him I guess it was just logical for you all to come to the conclusion that he must be poor and should not have a dog now if he will not spend $1000 dollars for one of yours.
And for those of you who think if you can’t afford to buy the dog, and I might add at the outrageous prices breeders are selling at (oh but not to make a profit just to better the breed) does not mean that people with less income can’t afford to look after a dog. To expect some one to shell out a grand or more on an animal who might get sick at any time or get hit by a car or eat something like a twig from a branch choke and die is a high price to pay. I say that the high prices are one big reason the back yard breeders are in business.
You know I watch a lot of the programs on tv about animal rescues and rich people are no better for looking after their pets just because they have money but yet some of the poor people are going with out food for themselves to provide vet care and food for their pets. A lot of rich people buy pets and when the first poop hits the floor the dog is sent to live in a garage or back yard. It’s a fad to say they have a pure breed but do they love it more than a poor man?
So now that I have said some things that have been bottled up for a while now I feel better. So let the gang up commence about how I don’t know what I’m talking about etc…I can take it.
Points I’m trying to make? I think I did make them if you took the time to read what I wrote.
A man asks for a reduced price not to offend but because it is a dog that is not %100 physically right.
A man asks for the reduction does not mean he is too poor to own a dog. (in reply to stdodz post)
Money does not make a good owner, people with money can be bad owners too.
Expensive prices make people go to BYB because some breeders do not want people to have dogs as pets but for show purposes only.
And what do you mean about bad breeders who don’t give money back to their dogs? Because they don’t take them to shows and dish out money for frozen doggie spermsicles? I don’t see how taking your dog to the groomers, feeding them good food, providing clean bedding and lots of toys and treats not to mention vet visits on regular basis is not giving money back to their dogs.
Not all breeders or back yard breeders are good or bad. I am not defending bad breeders as you put it. I am defending people who are labeled bad back yard breeders only because they lack the show pointes because they don’t show, or have not got one or both parents papered. I am defending those who take the time to have the dogs very well looked after and “give money back to their dogs” to raise not multiple litters but only a few. Who take the parents to the vet for x-rays and testes for health problems before breeding and have the mothers under close vet supervision during pregnancy. I am not talking about the guy next door who grabs the first stud to walk down the street owned by Joe Blow and offers $20 bucks for stud fees. Then after the deed is done puts the mother out side or in a garage to give birth unsupervised.
Friends of mine are breeders of Malamutes. And before you go into the “that must be where the BYB defense comes from” that’s not it. They show all of their dogs and use them in sled races. Some have been in movies. On the other hand I have known a breeder who showed dogs and once the points were accumulated and ribbons won had her dogs locked up and cages stacked on top of one another in filthy conditions for breeding. Thank god she was shut down due to a call that was made to the ASPCA.
I only am defending the right people have to buy a dog from a family where the dogs are cared for and loved. Where the pups are sold at a more affordable price with all health aspects looked into. I have nothing against breeders with papered dogs or breeders with non papered dogs. As long as the dogs are what comes first and are healthy.
I have not bashed him or said he was poor. I have said that I do not enjoy someon me asking me to bargen with my dogs, or suggest that I might need to 'get rid' of them or what happens when I need to place them. My dogs are mine and my price is actually lower then the adverge pet price for the breed which I pointed out to him.
I have encourged him to speak with other buyers and see other puppies. He has said to me that he has another puppy to look at and will that make me intersted in a counter offer? The answer is no.
I am very picky about what I will sell as a show quality dog. My mentor wants me to sell the other male as show quality. I have no problem with placing him in a pet home.
I have never said that I would not like to make money off of my litters. It would be nice to break even. So far, I have not acomplished that. I don't see myself being able to make a profit becuase I will never have more then one litter a yera and even that is to stressful for me considering I also have a full time job.
If I was bashing him, I would have been nasty and unplesant. He emailed me to ask me to visit the dogs again becuase he likes this puppy. I have no problems with that, but I do not want someone to come to my home and spend two hours beating at me attempting to have me lower my price to what they paid for their dog 20 years ago.
Again, I will attempt to make it clear that my puppies have a home with me forever. I place my puppies and know what the proper home will come along. I may be poor at buissness matters, but I expect people to know what they want and go after it. I also am amazed every time I have to spend days or even weeks with someone attmepting to get me to lwoer my price. I find it incredably unplesant and it is one of the several reasons I have no intentions on breeding another litter anytime soon.
I get my enjoyment from my dogs. I've put a lot of time and energy into my program and what I plan to produce. However, I have discovered that we all see this in a diffrent light, and the light of sales is not for me.
However, I do put time and money into my litter. Any decent breeder does. I will ask my price for my dogs and I do so with a guilt free concious. I'm sorry if I am not a good person becuase I refuse to give my dogs away or sell them for a price that I feel is beneight their qulity, but thats my choice and my dogs, fortunatly there are many people to buy from and I will always help someone find the right dog for them if its not with me.