keep your chin up tapettyjohn. sometimes things seem to get worse before they get better. you are doing all you can for the puppy and thats all you can do. no "i told you so's here ". just get well wishes and a prayer that your baby is on the way to a speedy recovery.

I really hope all goes well. Its scary when ourbabies are ill.

I hope you see that while some may have warned you before, even strongly. No one is bashing you but rather supporting you. Interesting huh!

please update, I'll be thinking about your pup/

good morning..... now daisys poo is like a clear snotty stuff with blood in it- is this normal? not her normal diarrhea?
maybe some of the anti diarrhea meds are kicking in? she did go her normal diarrhea this morning and now seems she is trying to go and then all she gets out is this stuff-
shes eating so there is food in her body to get rid of. last night i did switch her over to the chicken breast and white rice mixed with the low residue dog food the vet wanted me to mix it with.

my husband is calling the lady we bought her from today and seeing if she is a honest enough person and she claims to help us with these vet bills , if not oh well i will glady keep paying myself to make her healthy and im not bringing her back in exchange for a differnt one- boy i learned my lesson on this subject alitle to late tho but i dont have the heart to take her back. even if the lady doubled the money.
it isnt the money issue really at all. i just feel this lady knew these puppys had to be sick and sold them that way and didnt say anything to anyone about it.
i did get her this way it was that night i brought her home she started all of this and i read that coccida is in the body for 13 days i think it is before symptoms show i could be way off but i read something on the internet about coccida and puppys and how to know if and where it came from as from the person you got the dog from or the pup got it in your home. well it came with the dog. im worried bentley will get this but i do clean up her mess right away- doesnt even have time to hit the floor most times and im right there.
can bentley get it if they eat and drink out of the same food and water dish? believe me they each have their own but daisy wants everything bentley has and vis versa. and i do keep them seperate but she will get over to his dish when its empty and lick it and he will try to eat her food.
or is it just passed thew poop? thats what i got out of what i read about it but it didnt say anything about sharing food dishes.
the vet had to laugh when again i told her where i got my puppy from and we both kinda laughed because they are omish ppl and she was like the omish have phones? i said she must have to sell her puppies. didnt really think about that untill she repeated the phone thing when i said i called them to tell them she was sick.
i will keep you updated on how daisy is doing and i will post a few pic just so you can see the fur ball- she is so cute but very exspensive, i almost have a mortage payment and car payment wrapped up in her now- hubby isnt to happy with that. who would be tho?

The snotty looking stuff is just mucous... I know normal.. well I mean healthy dogs can sometimes have mucous poop and it's alright. But in your case I'm not sure if it's signs of getting better or not.

Stryder was on the Albon.. gosh... I cant think. Darn it. I thought it was 4 days... but it could have been 14 days. Sorry.

I WANT PICTURES LADY!!! I also called the breeder I got him from and told her about the coccidia. None of the pups had it, but she contacted them anyways and gave them a heads up. Most adult dogs can have it, but their immune systems are so built up that it doesnt affect them... so Bentley could "get it".. or in fact already has it... but I dont think it would cause any harm. If he starts having dirrehea then maybe take in a sample.

Hope she gets well soon!!!

i will post some pictures after work today. of bentley and daisy.
she must be getting some what better from when i got her she has gained alittle weight so thats good.
im just worried about her, i thought i was going to lose her ive never had a sick dog before. ( bentleys my first since i left home) and hes been healthy guess i got lucky on that one.
she is the cutest thing, one eye is still altitle bigger then the other but vet siad with the meds for her eye that it will be normal .
either way shes perfect, if thats all i have to deal with then im fine with that, she isnt blind in that eye the vet did check when i brought her in for that also 2 days after i got her.
right now just trying to kick this coccida thing.
do some dogs just get it much worse then others? shes been on antibotics all week and it would seem the coccida would be about gone but instead its way worse.

also i just noticed on the papers the lady gave me with daisy that the parvo shot she gave her is exspired- why didnt my vet notice that when i gave her the paper with all the shots and worming ect that was supposly done on her?
she was born aug 18 and this parov shot was giving sept 8th i think but the parvo shot label that is attached to this paper says exspire date june 06. she wasnt even born yet when the parvo shot exspired. so really honestly she isnt protected at all im assuming and now i wonder what my vet has over looked?
does this parvo shot have a longer shelf life after exspiring? or does this omish lady dont really care and probably gets her meds cheap when they exspire or has many of them and they go outdated?
so i thought she at least had one parvo shot and now i dont know if this really even will help her?
this lady really needs to be proud of herself- im so mad at her and i would love to drive to her house and tell her to her face i think she is a horrible lady and i will tell others about her dogs and to stay away-
but again i will post pic of my babies tonight. boy bentley has changed ....lol he jsut got a hair cut and they cut all his hair off - boy in the winter isnt good..lol he shakes all day even in the house. he had some matting and the groomer told me that it would be best to just cut it all off and start over.
so he looks like a white chihuahua.. poor thing...
thanks again for all your help and UNDERSTANDING!!

given the fact that her bowels are working double time, the mucus isnt' entirely surprising, most dogs have mucousy poop when they hvae diarrhea.

Regarding the expiration date on the vaccine, well.... my mom used to work in a pharmacy and medications are good 6-12 months after the 'sell by' or 'use by' date, just to be on the safe side, so I really wouldn't worry so much about that. The truth is, given the fact that your pup has a weakened immune system from being sick with coccidia, worms, and the malnutrition, she would be at higher risk for parvovirus even if she had been vaccinated.

Also, if she was vaccinated september 8, it's nearly november? She must have been vaccinated at around 5-6weeks of age (if not younger? how old is she again?), most veternarians consider that too early to vaccinate as the mother's antibodies are still in the pup's system and will kill off any benefits the vaccines give... that's why it's recommended that you not start a vaccination protocol until puppies are 7-8 weeks old, because they're generally not nursing any more. And even if she wasn't too young, she was only vaccinated once, it typicaly takes 3 boosters to jump start the immune system into producing its own antibodies against parvovirus.

Im glad she's gaining weight and is still eating, those are great signs of improving health.

And... amish people do not have phones. They go to town/ciites when they want to use the phones.

i am certainaly one who sticks up 4 the breeder....but the amish r notorious 4 filthy living conditions and leaving their nursing mothers in barns..lying in their own feces..treating them like cattle..all 4 profit..the amish r masters in furniture making,quilting,food....all quality and all pride in their work....but animal husbandry they seem to be just the oposite....more than likely your post has opened many eyes to the amish breeders and your little puppy having had this and being discussed on this forum will save many many other puppies....because people will not buy from the amish anymore...thus they will shut down production eventually...your daisy will b just fine..have dealt with coccidia myself....don't worry anymore....she is far away from death at this point...u will c in about a good solid week..this will all b behind u...the liklihood of you getting any veterinary compensation is not likely....they simply don't have the money to reimburse u.bently will b fine...he has plenty of immunities of his own by now..drinking out of same dish won't hurt bently..he isn't a puppy...coccidia is spread through spores in the feces....u didn't mention ear mites...u can treat a 12 week old plus dog 4 them..walmart..5.00...enjoy daisy and bently..have a great thanksgiving with them!!!

as long as she is eating and playful i would not worry too much about her stool. some blood is normal considering she has been dealing with this problem for awhile now. her bowels are probably irritated a lot from not only the diarrhea but the meds also. besides the bland diet i would also add yogurt in to her food. that will help put the good bacteria back into her intestines that the meds are killing along with the bad. what meds besides the albon is she on ? is she on metronidazole too ? that drug would help greatly with clearing this all up also. if i cant clear up diarrhea in my guys with the yogurt or a bland diet i will use the metro and by 2 doses their diarrhea is gone.

>>tapettyjohn<<

Please go to the bottom of page 1 and use the link that talks about coccidia. I think you will be assured a lot of the symptoms you are writing about are discussed in the article.

Again coccidia is fairly common in puppies. Basset had to deal with it and is doing just fine now. Again on page 1 is a link of her picture prehaps you and your husband will be assured that your pup will grow and develope fine after seeing a dog with the same issues.

I also suggested some different food items that may help control her loose stools. It is not good for a puppy to have continual loose stools since vitamins and minerals fly thru the digestive track to quickly to be assimilated by the body.

Rice is known to help bind the system. That should help along with the other foods suggested.

If you have other dogs that share the same potty area you MUST clean up after the sick dog. If another dog got into the sick dogs poop it can spread. Keep the yard clean. If you need to walk your dog to be sure to get it all then do that.

***I would strongly suggest using chicken with the rice. Hamburger is greasy and can cause more loose stools.***

***Edited By: beagle/basset on 11/5/2006 6:51:39 PM***
Reason: *

Coccidia can be stubborn some times, just continue to test and treat and it will eventually go away.

As far as the Amish puppymills, I knew one quite well a few years ago. Yes, they consider the dogs as livestock. culturally and religiously they do not consider animals in a way that most of the pet lovers on here do.

They speak german, and segrigate themselves from the rest of the country's culture. They are probably as replused at people who value pets as much as people as pet lovers are disguested with them for seeing them as livestock.

I just think they are from a different culture. I pretty much think of them as I would the few Asians who do eat dogs. I don't agree with how they think and yet I will not condemn them for their beliefs.

The Amish family that ran the puppymill and I will say it was a puppymill, because the adults (all toy breeds) are kept in a pre-made double stacked 'kennel' MADE BY SUNDOWNER BTW-- horse people (they are also a big horse trailer maker).

They did take pride in the puppies they raise, not that it wasn't about the money or quantity. They bred what he could, but he didn't breed every heat, breeding 2x and then skipping a heat. They did evaluate each dog before being bred and if they didn't think she was up to it, they did give her a 'break'.

They did TRY to get the nicest dogs they could, but lets face it, how many breeders with Champion dogs are going to sell their puppies to an Amish person, with a puppymill no less.

Their dogs, and I do mean the adults when I was able to look at them too, were always healthy, well fed, current on shots, wormer and vet care. He had a vet come in every month and he would take bitches with birthing problems to the vet (he paid some one to drive him for emergencies).

He had a VERY expensive incubator and nebulizer for premies or distressed puppies that I would love to have myself.

The dogs had good basic care, more than many byb's. The family was also very good with birthing, and raising small puppies, because I am sure they had 5 litters or more a month. Where the puppies were lacking was socialization and potty training, because they too were kept in 'SANITARY' cages where their waste falls away from them.

Not that I am condoning or recommending, people go to Amish puppymills or any other puppymill. Just some people ARE able to keep a heck of a lot of dogs in reasonably good condition. Remember, they are AKC inspected and USDA inspected, and they can get in trouble and they can get their dogs pulled and that is the last thing they want.

hello again, now that i have calmed down a bit i am going to call barbra ( the omish lady) and talk to her about daisy and what is going on with her.
she did seem concerned when my husband was yelling at her about this sick puppy and my wife is crying and the puppy has been sick since we brought her home and now pooping blood and if my 11 month old pup gets it im going to be *ist- so now she knows were pretty upset with this and we told her we would call back and maybe we could work something out. she seemed concerned.
i really dought seeing her giving us any money back but it seems if she was a decent person she would.
this puppy came with all these problems, and i feel they should help with the vet bills at least.
what do i say tho if she says bring her back and i will refund your money? of coarse this isnt what i want to do at all- and i dont want a differnt pup that i have to go threw all of this all over with. daisy is part of the family and im not trading her in for a better dog i have a feeeling they would just pts because they cant sell her if shes so sick.
what should i say? how should i word it? im not good at all with talking to ppl and trying to get my point across or to argue or demand some help with the bills.

i thought the amish dont have phones only mormans do.

You have zero chance of getting any money out of this backyard breeder. Money is all they care about.

The Amish CAN have phones for their business. It probably depends on the church group that they belong to. They just can't have one in their home. It is funny they have electric lights for their kennel and a phone in a locked shack by the road-- they just don't have those things in their house.

The family I was talking about sell all of their many puppies exclusively out of advertising in the paper, people call them and then drive out and pick out a puppy.

And it is menonites (sp) who live close to the Amish culture but are allowed to have electric and cars and things. Mormons are the ones that can go to regular schools and be like regular people, they just 'used' to believe in Polygomy.

As far as getting a refund, I doubt it unless it was in your contract. If they had a contract. Speaking as a breeder, something that cost you hundreds of dollars to 'treat' would have taken probaby about $8 for me to fix. That is why I always tell people if there is a problem to contact ME ME ME right away BEFORE calling the vet.

but aparently tho this omish lady knew these puppies were sick and didnt spend even a few dollars to try and treat her before selling her.
also as stated before i was giving this index card with the shots and worming information on it but the parvo was out dated and exspired in june 06 when she gave the shot to the pup in sept.
when my husband did notice that her eye looked like maybe a starting of a cold or something in her eye and the omish man took a look and siad well if something is wrong bring her back- bring her back for what? to exchange for anther sick pup? i thought omish ppl had morals and were living threw god and all of that stuff? dont they think its wrong to deceive ppl out of money?
maybe they wont feel they should be held liable to help for her vet bills but i sure will and already have started warning ppl about this family which i do have her full name and address as i sent a check for a deposit .
the omish man did know that something was wrong with her eye when we were there so he cant say there wasnt and still her one eye is smaller then the other but vet said it was a infection and would clear up so far tho it hasnt. but her other problems have become my first priority and then we will recheck her eye. she can see and isnt blind its some kind of infection which i dont remember what the vet called it.
so say they have a puppy mill out there i cant do or no one can do anyting about it? even when the dogs are sick im sure all with coccida and god knows what else?
arent you allowed only so many dogs? can you keep a dog caged up his whole life just to breed?
im going to call her i will let you know what she says.
im kinda hoping for the answering machine so i can tell her how it is but i really dont know what to say if she starts agruing me with over stupid stuff.
or tells me she isnt going to help- its just the point- not even a money issue we have paid for all the vet bills and will contuinue to if we have to.
its just the principal of it all.
i didnt see any cars, when i was there. and i couldnt tell if they had electricy or not the man and kids meet me and my hubby on the porch where the pups were in a box. ( knowing what time we were coming) ive only talked with her on the phone she seems nice enough but it was the husband we delt with and he seemed very nice and seemed to love his dogs . im sure this is their way to make money- they sure do charge enough for a mix dog and know what breeds to mix to make the most money it seems.
gosh selling the pups for what they are and how many liters im sure they have they are welll off i would think, enough to make tihs right with daisy.

What a lot of people don't realize is, there are Old Order Amish, and New Order Amish. Big difference between the two. But Amish don't consider cars, electricty, etc, as "evil". It is just a connection to the English (us) that they don't want. In general, they will use 12 volt batteries, and they use electric generators. For example, the Amish family that we know-Elmer uses a generator for his welder. They also have a kerosene powered refrigerator. They will use a phone, but will not have one in their home. And any transfer of money on a Sunday is strictly forbidden. Naomi sells baked goods, but Sat afternoon-she drops the price on what hasn't sold, because she will not sell it on Sun. And one of the daughters, in spring and summer, sells plants. Again, NEVER on Sunday. Also, this family does not breed dogs and they treat their animals very well. A bad breeder is a bad breeder-religion has nothing to do with it.

OK... just because I feel I need to say it:

Mormons and the Amish are not alike.
I am not Mormon, but I live in Utah, and everyone else is. They have a set of particular religious beliefs, like baptists or catholics. But they don't live life differently. They look just like you and me and they drive cars and use electricity and they dont' wear funny hats, or hang from trees. ;)

Now, if you are talking about the FLDS (fundamental LDS) sects, then you get into a type of lifestyle that includes living off the land and wearing odd bonnets. (They might hang from trees) ;)

Just wanted to clarify that. I happen to know a lot about Mormons, so I may as well spread the knowledge.

i really dont know the differnce, these amish ppl have the werid dresses on and their hair in that bun cover thingie , the amish man had the over alls and the long beard .
that hole area where we got daisy from was amish ville i think there were horses and buggys every where and one amish family made cedar logs for furntiure.
i guess i always thought that amish ppl didnt have phones and cars and sell puppies for money i was wrong. they didnt have car tho not that i seen and the kids even had those apron dresses on and the son had bib like overalls on.

i did leave a message with this family about daisy and what she has ect. i hope to hear back from them. if not i will call again.
i mostly would like to let them know that the coccida is pretty bad and that if they do have any of the pups left they should really treat them.
and or call the ppl tehy sold the other dogs to and warn them also.

daisy seems to be feeling alittle better today. she seemed to feel better this weekend tho could it of been the iv fludid they gave her? she seems kinda sluggish again but still eating and play ful adn her poo seems alittle thicker- not as watery but still not where it should be .
so do i keep her on this rice and chicken and the low residue food till the stools harden up? will this bind her up? i would be happy with just normal poop right now for her sake.
my husband is going to help me take some pic of daisy and bentley and post them . sorry its taken so long but im just not computer savy by any means and i dont remember how to post pic even tho ive read the directions..lol
gosh im only 31 but my memory is of a 90 year old most days.

also qucik question, daisy of coarse wasnt socialized at all when we got her, and she still seems stand offish with us and will run from us and she is getting better with me but i still have to chase her some days.
will this get better once there is a better bond there?
what can i do to bond with her more? i do play with her one on one alot and hold her and try to give her extra attention but she still seems skidish.
its only been a week i know but in time will she be happy to see us and come to us? its hard potty training her right now when she wont come to you .
bentley was very cuddly and lovable when we got him and he slept with us from day one. i have daisy in her play pen at night mostly the diarrhea and shes so small and fragile that i dont want to roll over on her, my hubby tries to play with her and she doesnt want anything to do with him so hes heart broken..lol
what can i do to make her trust us and want to be with us?
shes 11 weeks old so i know shes young but i want to bond while shes so young.
her and bentley play together all day when they are awake so she is bonding with him is this good that she is bonded with the dog and not us?
she was trying to nurse on bentley when we first brought her home..lol needless to say bentley is a boy and like the hole nursing thing..lol yes hes fixed and she will be to when she is old enough.
thanks for all the help

she was born aug 18 and this parov shot was giving sept 8th
----------------------------------
That part doesnt make sense to me, hopefully they didnt lie about the shots. 1st shots arent given until 8 weeks of age, not at 3 weeks.

"They might hang from trees."
===
kdubbs -- LOL I loved your concise explanation, but I don't know how fair it is to say the Mormons dress the same as everyone else. Who else wears a short sleeve white dress shirt and a tie on a 100 degree summer day?

Sorry to wander so far off topic!