I've been told by 3 good kennels to stop my search for a dog until January. Even though they have no puppies, will not be breeding anywhere in December, they do not want to discuss there dogs until after the Christmas season is passed.
Cider wasn't my purchase. But she was close enough to coming into my life as an Xmas puppy. Showed up on December 14th, and got hoisted on me 2 days later to go home for Christmas since her buyer all of a sudden couldn't possibly take her home.
Great idea. The hecticness of the Christmas season, while trying to potty train a small dog, in the cold of winter, who will have accidents while family and friends don't understand the way dog people would.
Good breeders wouldn't have had a litter t ofall near Christmas, and if they did they wouldn't be being sold for then. It's a bad time of year to introduce a dog to your home.
btw, i have labs and goldens, and no, it is not a coincident. I guess i could make a goldador retriever, but what is the point? i won't get squat for them.
Please, lets keep this thread bumped for the entire season so people have a very good example of a money grubbing, puppy churning out human machine. These are not loving companions to this person, but little $Dollar$ Signs. Seeing as how you did not mention health testing of the parents, papers or anything you do with the parents...ie...Showing, Agility, Rally, Hunting compitition, Obedience. I would have assume they are a couple females rode by a male that make your christmas money every year. Never taking a notch up to improve a bloodline, just money to line your pocket with.
Recognizing an unethical breeder
When you talk to people about their puppies, there are a few warning signs that you may be dealing with a disreputable, unethical, or irresponsible breeder:
The "breeder" lacks knowledge about the breed.
The "breeder" shows ignorance or denial of genetic defects in the breed.
The "breeder" doesn't let you observe the puppies or adults, or let you see the kennels.
The "breeder" has no documentation and cannot provide a pedigree.
The puppies are not socialized.
How to read those ads!
Here are a few more things that you ought to look out for.
"Champion lines" -- look instead for Champion sired or Champion parents. All Champion Lines means is that there is a dog somewhere in your puppy's family that was a champion - it says nothing about the quality of the parents at all. Anyone can buy a puppy from a champion, but it does not mean that they have any other interest in the breed but to bank on the name and make money. The puppy may have been sold as a pet (since it had some problems that prevented it from being shown) and an unethical person did not have the dog desexed and is still breeding puppies.
"AKC Registration" or "AKC Papers" -- So what? AKC registration does not guarantee quality. AKC papers are much like the title of a car - papers are issued on the junked chevy on blocks in your yard just as easily as they are on a brand new, shiny Jaguar. AKC does not control breeding, approve litters, or guarantee soundness. Unfortunately, in the hands of some unethical breeders, it doesn't even guarantee that the dog is purebred.
AKC Registration is automatic if you buy from a reputable breeder - they will provide all necessary paperwork when you buy a puppy. It is not a selling point, and shouldn't be treated as one.
Be wary of other "registrations", as well. There are several groups that are registering dogs, occasionally even mixed breeds, for a fee. This registration means nothing, and is of no value to you. Not that AKC papers really mean much, either.
"Extra-big", "Extra-small" -- breeders trying for extremes are rarely raising healthy dogs, and any ad that has to stress the size and weight of the dog to sell the puppies is suspect, in my opinion. Usually, these dogs are outside of the breed standard and are subject to their own medical problems due to excessive size or lack of it.
"Rare" -- Why? Is the dog showable? Are there too many defects for the animal to be bred? What kind of problems does this "rare" color or size or pattern entail? There are many people buying "rare" white Boxers and Shepherds, not realizing that they are not show-prospects, and that they are buying a dog with medical problems from lack of pigmentation, and possible behavioral problems as well.
There are even some people selling unusual cross breeds as "rare" dogs, and people buy them thinking they are getting some unique treasure. I don't want to be too harsh about this, though -- every breed we se today is the result of some specialized and "rare" breeding to create a certain look or behavior. Shepherds herd, retrievers retrieve...because we have selectively bred them to do so. A breeder who is trying to 'recreate' a lost breed may fall on either side of the ethical divide. Shop with care.
"see both parents" As noted in questions to ask a breeder , this is not usually a good thing. Rarely will a good breeder have the luck to own both dogs for the perfect litter. If you can see both parents, it often means that the person had two dogs in the back yard and didn't supervise them carefully enough, resulting in puppies.
"Must go now!" Why? Are they too big to be cute anymore? Need more money? Is there a problem? Be very wary of this one.
CASUAL OR BACKYARD BREEDER
1. Motive for breeding: "fun", "good for kids", or make money. Doesn't screen buyers and seldom refuses to sell.
2. Breeds family pet to any convenient pet of same breed just to have purebred puppies. Has no concern for genetics, bloodlines, or breed improvement.
3. Though pet may be well-loved, it wasn't x-rayed for hip dysplasia nor checked for other inheritable problems.
4. Offers no health guarantees beyond proof of shots. Unqualified to give help if problems develop.
5. Seller has little knowledge of breed history or AKC breed standard. may claim this doesn't matter for "just pets."
6. Pups raised in makeshift accommodations indicating lack of long-term investment in breeding.
7. Even when selling "just pets". may produce AKC papers or "championship pedigree" as proof of quality. Yet seller doesn't increase own knowledge through participation in national or local breed club.
8. May be unwilling to show entire litter or to introduce dam of litter. Can't/won't critique puppies or puppies' ancestors.
9. Prices at low end of local range since has to move pups rapidly.
10. No concern for individual pup's and breed's future. Doesn't use AKC limited registration or ask for spay/neuter contract to guard against breeding of substandard pets. if you can't keep the pup, tells you to take it to the dog pound or sell it.
The Backyard Breeders' and Puppy Millers' Big Book of Old Excuses
Written by Denna Pace.
1. When called on bad breeding practices, ALWAYS claim that you are merely an innocent posting as a favor to a friend or family member.
2. Point out that everybody you know breeds this way, therefore it must be okay.
3. Claim that "snobby show breeders" are only criticizing you because they want to corner the market on puppy profit.
4. Claim that a Champion in the pedigree is just as good as 56 Champions in the pedigree. Not that it matters, because you doubt that there is such a thing as a dog with 56 champions in the pedigree.
5. Claim that you are just trying to produce good pets, therefore good pets are all you need for breeding.
6. When asked about health testing, enthusiastically point out that your bitch had a health checkup before breeding.
7. Be sure to mention that you do not need to run such health tests as OFA, CERF, thyroid, cardiac, patellae, etc., because your dogs look healthy and had no visible problems at their last vet checkup.
8. Point out that these tests cost too much and would cut into your profit margin. Be sure to champion the right of poor people to breed dogs.
9. Confidently assure worried rescuers that no puppy you produce, or any of their puppies or grand puppies or great-grandpuppies will end up in shelters because you have a bunch of friends who have told you that they'd like a pup from your bitch.
10. Point out that you don't need Championships or working titles on your dogs because you are breeding for temperament and your dog is really sweet.
11. Silence those annoying people who ask about your health guarantee by assuring them that buyers can return any sick puppies and you will replace it with another pup as long as it got sick within a certain amount of time of sale and as long as you don't think the buyer did something to make the puppy sick.
12. If your breed or line is rare (or you have a "rare" color, or believe your breed or color is rare), be sure to remind everyone that you do not need to show, temperament test, or health test your breeding stock because you are doing the world a service by continuing this "rare" breed/color/line.
13. No matter what anyone else says, claim that you obviously know what you are doing because you've been breeding for a long time. Point to the hundreds of puppies you've pumped out over the years as proof.
14. If this is your first attempt at breeding, make sure to remind everyone that you HAVE to breed your dog because how else are you going to learn how to breed?
15. Assure everyone that your dog does not need to be shown because you were assured by someone at Petsmart/the park/the vet's office/a friend that your dog is a perfect example of the breed.
16. Always remember that "rare" colors, oversized or undersized dogs, and mixes of popular breeds are great selling points. Anyone who doesn't think so is obviously not in tune with their customers' wishes.
17. Claim that your dogs are better because they are not inbred, as inbreeding obviously produces sick/stupid/deformed dogs. If breeding poo [as in "Cock-a-Poo," "Peek-a-Poo," etc.] dogs or other mutts, always point to "hybrid vigor" as proof of your dogs' superiority.
18. Remind everyone that you do not need a waiting list because your puppies are cute.
19. Assure everyone that your puppies will not end up in shelters because they are cute.
20. Claim that YOUR breed never ends up in shelters in your area, therefore your puppies will never end up in shelters.
21. If asked why you think your dogs are breeding quality, point out that they "have papers." Extra points awarded for using the phrase "AKC Certified." Double points if those papers come from the Continental Kennel Club.
22. If you sell a sick puppy, always blame the owners for making it sick. If the owners are clearly not responsible, blame their vet. (see #11)
23. If presented with irrefutable evidence proving you wrong on any excuses you have used, pretend your server did not receive the post/e-mail.
24. Claim that none of the rules of ethical breeding apply to you because you only intend to have one litter and therefore aren't a "real" breeder.
25. If all else fails, tell everyone who criticizes you to "get a life."
Written by Denna Pace . It was compiled by reading the horrible BYB ads on rec.pets.dogs.breed. Please credit when quoting.
I highly agree that dogs, or any pets, should not be given to someone as a present on any occasion. I remember when I was young, around 12 or so, my sister and I wanted to get my mom a puppy for Christmas. Of course when you're young like that you want to make your mom happy in any way you can, so I called up an ad in the paper. The first thing the woman asked me was "would this puppy be given as a gift this x-mas?" I said, "yes.." She absolutely refused to sell me the pup. She told me why it's not such a good idea to give puppies as surprise gifts. I learned that day something that probably would've saved the life of a dog, because I know to this day that my mom wouldn't have wanted that puppy. And it only took that one person to tell me so. I never thought of doing that again. Now that's a reputable breeder!!
26. " they just love this time of the year. they are fortunate enough to have 3 litters that will be around 8-10 weeks on christmis. that is 27 pups at $500 each. they are going to have a very marry Christmas indeed. "
I gave my kids Puppies for Christmas and we sill had them when the kids left home. I had to put one down at 15 years and one at 14 years. Oh yes I better explain not because the kids were gone but because it was time. (Just for those that try to read between lines. I can see next tread Lady puts dog down because kids move out. )Kids were gone several years before they had to be put to sleep. I know several people that sell puppies for Christmas that are very healthy puppies with great blood lines. No problem with that.
The problem I see with getting a puppy, kitten, or any pet for that matter, over the holidays is that there is never enough time to do what the family needs to do, let alone consider the needs of a pet in thier new environment. So, you get a pup on Xmas morning, then have to go to Grandma's...take the pup with you? Of course! Then , the pup can puke/pee/poop in the car because it's scared, and not eating very well 'cause it;s trying to adjust to it's new surroundings. Get to Grandma's where 50 people want to hold/play with and exhaust the poor thing. Then, Aunt Helen is giving the pup ham and potatoes, some pie and egg nog. Why? Beacuse he likes it, isn't that cute? Pup then goes into the spare bedroom and pukes/poops on the rug because no one is watching him, since they're all visiting. Hmmm...not so cute. Pup begins to think that it's ok to pee/poop in the house because no one shows him otherwise. Grandma finds poop later on, causes a commotion, family goes home, unhappy about the way the pup behaved at Grandma's and puts pup in crate ('cause he was bad, you know). Then, as the month winds to an end , the pup gets in the way with decorations, parties, etc. Family goes back to "normal life", and realizes that "it just isn't going to work out", since it's cold out and the pup just doesn't want to go outside to the bathroom, (Which really means, it's cold out and I don't want to get up at 3 am to let the pup out!) and we're really busy and just don't have the time that he/she requires. *That whole spiel makes me SICK! I understand that some people are educated about the whole puppy adoption thing, and CAN adopt during the holidays. However, I believe for the most part, buying an animal during the holidays is an impulse buy, and usually won't turn out for the best. I am dreading the influx of kittens/puppies at the shelter around February...when they start to not be cute little fluffballs anymore. You know, we don't turn kids in to adoption agencies when they get to the obnoxious, gangly, adolescent stage, so why do it to animals?
***Edited By: Newfie_girl on 11/20/2006 2:22:05 PM*** Reason: add
*Oh, and juno, that statement you made about having the 27 pups and $500 each is repulsive. No decent, responsible breeder would have more than on litter at a time. Do you have the pups marked for who belongs to each dam? Are your prospective "victims" aware that you have 3 litters on the ground? You obvioulsy don't learn, or don't pay attention very well.
In that case.......I don't think I will say much through my own words because my words will reflect the words of many,as far as the reasons for not getting a pet during christmas instead I will let the words of foundations and shelters tell you...I won't rant and rave..but i will educate to the best of my ability.this is the time of year I dread the most.(the new year actually) before my accident I did volenteer(sp?)work with my german shepherd killer,I have seen with my own eyes the devastation.I will look and constantly give you guys links because my words will never be as powerful as looking and reading the experiences of animals and the places that love the animals have to go through. Thanks Wiley now I'll be sure to keep posting
***Edited By: sunny_36 on 11/20/2006 2:47:07 PM*** Reason: **