I know someone who has hunting Welsh Springer Spaniels here in the US and one of her imports was undocked. She said that brief pain of docking is nothing compared to the pain he goes through every time they get back from hunting and she has to pull out dozens of cockleburrs and such from his tail hair.
There have been studies showing that the tail injuries from docked groups to undocked groups of dogs for the same purpose showed no inclination in injuries in the undocked dogs. Everything was about the same.
Husky... I also came across a website syaing how horrible it was for a dog to do ANY sort of draft work. Our dog carting club had a whole meeting about it. I have since lost it, (this was about 6 years ago) but can you imagine someone saying you CAN NOT race your huskies, it's cruel to make them pull anything... even though this breed has been pulling for hundreds of years.
I do not see how it is cruel. At the young age docking is supposed to be done at, the puppies do not feel much...
Altho - barligirls' point is a VERY good one. The GSD tail is a quite large, powerful, bushy one...The Labs being powerful...I don't see why they are not docked when cleary the "trouble"/pain that can be caused by a Springer's tail would be equal to a GSD's...even in everyday life and activites...
***Edited By: MommaMia on 12/5/2006 8:52:15 PM*** Reason: .
"Happy tail" syndrome is as much of a problem in Labradors as field injuries supposedly are for a Spaniel.
Not having a docked tail doesn't mean a dog cannot do it's job. I see plenty of feathered field breeds with tails that are traditionally not docked. I've seen plenty of traditionally docked breeds do just fine with their tails.
Perhaps, if the hunters are so worried about this, they can use something other than a spaniel? Or just cut the feathering shorter.
My huskies however do not need alterations to their bodies to be able to run or pull.
have you ever looked at a well bred labs(the tails on the byb ones here suck) tail and compared it to a dobermans tail? There is no comparisson at all. Labs have been bred a long time to have their tail in the standered and its their for a purpose.
And saying they can deal with having a raw bloody tail so why can't another dog isn't really a good argument.
***Edited By: joce on 12/5/2006 9:14:20 PM*** Reason: d
<<<Not having a docked tail doesn't mean a dog cannot do it's job. I see plenty of feathered field breeds with tails that are traditionally not docked. I've seen plenty of traditionally docked breeds do just fine with their tails. >>> Keep the different breeds in mind!!! Just becuase an Irish Setter has a tail doesn't mean a Field Spaniel can work with one!!!
<<<Perhaps, if the hunters are so worried about this, they can use something other than a spaniel? Or just cut the feathering shorter. >>>
It's not always the feathering, it's the TAIL itself. And why should they switch breeds? Because a few extremists say that docking is cruel?
Maggie's tail is only 3". She can still wag her tail. In fact, she wags her whole butt! And it is correct that pointers and retrievers not only have a totally different style of hunting, but they also tend to hunt in totally different types of terrain. Labs have otter tails. Pointers, as a generaly rule, are not going to consistently jump into water to retrieve waterfowl.
There is more to commuication than just wagging. What bout flagging, or tucking the tail. Also a relaxed tail is sending messages, as much as a wagging one does.
I do think the tail is an important communication tool for the dog.
Though the argument presented about working dogs is a very valid one. And I know many of you got your dogs with nubs already.
I just always bring the argument of communication up. No one ever seems to bring it up. I think if there were an argument against cropping, Communication would be it. It holds some scientific validity.
***Edited By: gunny on 12/5/2006 11:11:17 PM*** Reason: s
What bout flagging, or tucking the tail. ------------------------------------- Our little nub breeds are able to do all of those things, you can see alot of emotion through their tails, docked or not they are still expressive.
I am sorry, but the communication responce hold no water for me, weather docking or cropping is being discused. Shibas have full curled tail and rarely use them for communication, they just arnt tail waggers, yet my aunts boxers are very expresive with their nubs the tail nub goes up with when they are alert, it goes down in fear and wags when excited. As for ears a dobe with copped ears is easier to read that one with full ears. If the dog is alert the ears are up, happy folded back with tail nub wagging, thretening up with growling. An uncropped dobes ears can not stand erect, or properly fold back. No one part reads alone, you have to look at the whole body to properly read them.