Why even fight it? It’s legal, and as trends do, it will die or prevail based on people’s satisfaction with the pets themselves. The ones breeding them don’t have a lock on the term, either. Why not talk up the shelter mixes AS designer dogs with goofy names if it would help get people in to take a look?

Since these puppies tend to be expensive, they’re being bought by people who are willing to spend to get what they want and who can afford to see to their health needs. Like Tiger Woods, who bought a, um, lab/poodle intentional cross. It might turn out to have been a mistake, but it would be pointless and fruitless to “hate” him for it. It’s crucial to remember they’re “designed” as pets, not bred as working dogs. Their job is to be a companion dog and to fit in with a household, and so many actual breeds have intentionally bred qualities making that difficult. Since the ones making these puppies don’t have any contact with conformation breeders, they’re not messing up the real breeds. I’ve seen no sign yet that they’re broadly sicker or nastier than other choices, or surrendered at a higher rate. If that proves to be true, then that will be an actual reason to object to the trend. Obviously, dogs with health problems shouldn’t be bred, and some breeds shouldn’t be crossed for health reasons. But the mere fact that they’re intentional mixes doesn’t factor in. If problems do emerge, word will definitely get around. Like on this board, when people post about their puggles’ housebreaking problems or ear infections. Might be anecdotal, might signal a trend. Time will tell, and it won’t take long.

Since apparently Purebreeds are free or just the cost of shots. Since what I am reading is that crossbreeders just make money off there pups. Then all you snobs that judge people for what there dogs mix is should have nothing to worry about .

If all purebreeds are non- profit then they will soon rid the world of mutts and mixes for profit.


Right that is what you are saying that purebreeders make no money off there pups they don't breed for profit. they breed just to better their breed.


So how much did you pay for your purebreed because I know how much I paid for mine. I am quite sure the breeder made a profit and I am also sure the breeder you bought yours from also made a profit off you.

Molly, I know some conformation breeders, and you might think their dogs are pretty expensive. But none of them break even on their litters because it costs so much to do it right.

The intention with this post was to open the eyes of people for what we are accualy doing to dogs.. Yes all todays breeds come from mixing and matching but they we're also bred for a perpose. The german shepard to tend sheep the dobermann to gaurd the poodle to hunt birds the lab to retrieve and so on.
That's not the issue.

Take a look at this dog...
This is the absolute cutest thing I've seen in my life and I just love him but take a closer look to what's wrong in this picture...

http://www.pawsla.org/petart3/images/winkle.jpg


This is what can happen and people are being irrisponsible thinking that it won't happen to them.
I'm not talking to the people who own these mutts but the breeders of them.
To the people who own them please stop calling them designs... it's not helping.
It's making the fashion stick.

"Right that is what you are saying that purebreeders make no money off there pups they don't breed for profit. they breed just to better their breed."

If you buy from a good breeder they are most likely not making a profit and if they do some how it's put right back into their dogs and breeding program. Here's a part of a breeder I know site listing the cost of one of her litters.

"This is based on a litter of 6, Great Danes can have many more.
Health Clearances for female before breeding including xrays for hip dysplasia, Heart certification by a board certified Cardiologist. VWD test, thyroid tests. $500
Examination of female before breeding, includes worm check, brucellosis test, booster immunizations, health certificate, etc. $150
Stud average fee $600
Shipping (average 500-mile radius) $500
Extra food and vitamins for female when 6 weeks in whelp $150
Postpartum check for female $50
Office visit - Examination of litter $50
Removal of dewclaws at $20 per puppy $120
Puppy immunizations at $60 per puppy (4 series each) $480
Ear cropping at $200 per puppy $1200
Food and vitamins for puppies before and after weaning $800
Worming at least twice at $40 per puppy $240
TOTAL AMOUNT $4,840

The estimated costs also assume that nothing goes wrong, meaning, that a necessary
c-section or other whelping complications would cost more. Emergency vet care and formula would be necessary should the mother die during whelping. This should be enough to show you that Yes, there is money in dogs, lots of it....put there by the ethical breeders that love their breeds and want to do the best that they can for that breed. "


That is just what was spent during pregnancy and on the puppies. Now include the price already spent for the bitch and maybe others before that didn't turn out and had to be spayed (yes they don't breed everything they buy). Then there's showing anywhere from $50-200 or more a weekend depending on distance and if you have to stay in a hotel. Also time they put in to raise and properly socialize the litter. Weeks of no sleep so they can watch the mother and babies 24/7 to make sure all is well. That's something you can't put a price on, but they should be reimbursed for it. Even if she would have sold each pup for $1000 she would have only gotten $1200 for eight weeks of none stop work. I make that in less than two weeks and only put in 40 hours.

Of course these BYB's that just throw anything together are going to make money, because they don't do it right, and it's sickening.


***Edited By: danemom on 1/9/2007 11:17:02 AM***
Reason: fix my pasteing

Thanks danemom for the well stated post. We had a litter of 14 setters, 2 were still born and 12 survived.

Did we make a little money after giving one to the co-owner of the bitch, and keeping 2, 1 intentionlly and 1 w/health problem? Did we make a little money after the health tests for bitch and dog? Did we make a little money after the dew claw removing and puppy shots? Did we make a little money after 2 emergency room trips? Did we make a little money after they were weaned and ate like there was no tomorrow? Yes, we did make a little money, but if you break it down after expenses and the time put in......it certainly doesn't add up to much.

We didn't do it for the money or the experience. We did it because we have 2 beautiful red heads and kept the intregrity of the breed intact.

***Edited By: irishacres on 1/9/2007 11:31:44 AM***
Reason: add

Now include the price already spent for the bitch and maybe others before that didn't turn out and had to be spayed (yes they don't breed everything they buy).


one of my biggest pet peeves is breeders who include the price of their stud or bitch into how much it costs to breed, and also the ones who figure in routine healthcare, like vaccines and heartworm prevention, and toys, and any other item that your average pet owner spends on their just pets everyday. it reminds me of the BYB's who say their bitch cost them 800 bucks so they are going to breed her to make their money back. i would hope the breeders would spend money on routine care for their dog irregardless of whether they were breeding it or not. and if they do, then it really isn;t a BREEDING cost.

as far as the original topic of the thread ..... i despise designer dog breeders and irresponsible breeders alike.

i however don;t despise the people who went out and bought a designer dog. i realize that the majority of the general public is ignorant on such matters. i see this ignorance everyday, and while it boggles my mind, i do realize that most of these people really did not know.

what burns me up are the people who do buy their first designer dog, and are educated , and yet repeat their same mistake a second time.

<<what burns me up are the people who do buy their first designer dog, and are educated , and yet repeat their same mistake a second time. >>

But Scout, if they had a positive experience with the first one they bought, for them it wasn't a mistake. Just hearing about the philosophical objections (too expensive for a mutt, could have saved a shelter dog's life instead) doesn't mean someone will agree and take on those objections as their own. Educated minds can differ, especially outside the dog world, which is where most people operate.

"This is based on a litter of 6, 1. Great Danes can have many more.
Health Clearances for female before breeding including x-rays for hip dysplasia, Heart certification by a board certified Cardiologist. VWD test, thyroid tests. $500
Examination of female before breeding, includes worm check, brucellosis test, booster immunizations, health certificate, etc. $150
Stud average fee $600 the stud cost here are around $1000.00 but most CKC breeders own their own studs
Shipping (average 500-mile radius) $500 way over priced I shipped a puppy from Ontario to Alberta and the cost is only $150.00
Extra food and vitamins for female when 6 weeks in whelp $150
Postpartum check for female $50
Office visit - Examination of litter $50
Removal of declaw at $20 per puppy $120 most pups only have 1 or 2 declaw so only $5-$10 per pup
Puppy immunizations at $60 per puppy (4 series each) $480 again most puppies are in their new homes by 8 weeks so they would only have there first shots and if not placed by 12 weeks then the breeder has breed before having homes so that is bad breeding, The breeder should have homes for 6 puppies before breeding
Ear cropping at $200 per puppy $1200 ear cropping is only $50 per ear so only $100.00
Food and vitamins for puppies before and after weaning $800.00 again set high for a top of the line food and the right amount $200.00 to $400.00 with vitamins
Worming at least twice at $40 per puppy $240 wormer is not $40.00 per pup $ more like $40.00 per bottle that will due both doses for 30 pups, medical supplies is about $60.00
TOTAL AMOUNT $4,840
REAL AMOUNT $ 2,940

2. The Cost of feeding and Showing the Bitch through the year I would not count because most owners of Dog show quality dogs show if they are breeders or not and all dog owners have to feed. So 6 pups at $1000.00 is $6000.00 minus the cost they are still making a profit even if a c-section comes up after hour the cost is $800.00 formula is $30.00 a can that will feed 6 pups for a week so $150.00 for the 5 weeks til weaning age the only thing that can’t have a price is the round the clock care any breeder does not do this to get rich unless they are a mill but then not many of the cost list are met. Good breeders of purebred or Crossbred do it for the joy of having puppies around all the time and of placing them with loving forever homes I have been breeding for 8 years and have contact with all my families and not one of my pups has ever ended up in a pound or shelter. That is called researching the families to make sure you have a good match not just selling to any one. And if you check petfinder a lot of purebreds s end up there to.

You must live in a very cheap part of the country. A c-section here would run you about $1500. Those prices for dewclaws, shots, and ear cropping are about right. Actually the cropping is really good, because there's only one good dane cropper in the state and she charges $500 without a group discount. She could save money on some of this if it was done at home, but she's not for cutting corners. Also if I remember correctly you breed little mutts (if I'm confused sorry) so it would cost you less, these are giants so yes it cost quite a bit more for shipping and feeding the puppies when they gain 3-5 lbs per week at that age. Also I know many breeders that keep puppies until their 12 weeks if they aren't going to a experienced owner so they can get more and proper socialization during the fear phase that usually happens around 9 weeks. Good for you for not letting your pups end up in shelters. What else do you do responsibly, any health test on the parents? Yes some purebred dogs do end up there, but they aren't coming from quality breeders. The breeder I’m referring to does do it for her love of the dogs. I was the one that added the comments on the cost of the dog and showing. I know you have to pay for a dog and regular care, but a show quality dog cost more. Also I know very few show people that don’t breed at some point to get their next show pup.

It sounds like Molly lives in Canada. Prescription drugs cost far less there. So does human health care, and higher (including veterinary?) education, and apparently veterinary care itself, compared to US prices. Plus, comparing Canadian vs. US dollars without doing the currency conversion... oh, wait, that would actually support her point, increasing the spread of the two countries' "real" totals.

***Edited By: JoanEK on 1/9/2007 1:05:44 PM***
Reason: d

I have to give a 100% sound agreement here. A mutt is a lovable mutt and some silly name doesn't make it "better" than the next. I proudly own 3 dogs of mixed origins that are absolutely gorgeous and would give any pure bred or designer dog a run for it's money. *wink I am also the proud owner of a pure bred Great Dane and love her no more than the others, obviously! Just like my children, it's equal across the board. Guess what people?? Paying more for them doesn't make them "worth" more.

So ultimately that's the key here. Designer dogs, as they are called, are what I call "pocket liners". They get a fancy name and line the pockets of the breeder (I am using this term loosely) with cash in sometimes INSANE amounts per puppy. All for what is technically a lovable mutt.

And come on people.... there are soooo many lovable mutts in our shelters and with our rescue groups that need homes, do we really need to manufacture more??? I've seen too many "designer dogs" end up in a shelter when they can't be sold. It's very very sad any way you look at it.

if there is any one intrested in seeing how many "designer" breeds there are
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/poodlemix.htm

that is way to many mixs being called purbreeds. Today is was talking to a girl at school she said she had two dogs so i asked what kind. She said "We have a chi puppy and a beagle/pug mix". I was over joyed when she called it a mix. She and her family did not get it from a pet store or a 'breeder'. A man came to there door asked if it was theres they said no but we will take him and try to find his owners. They put up flyers which i saw did not know it was from them. No one claimed him so they are going to keep him.

One of the things that makes me mad is how they started. I have seen puppymills on tv from Animal Cops. Now I would bet a million dollors a dog got mixed in wiyh a diffrent breed they had pups. The mill owner had to sell them some how so they called it a.........yorkiepoo.

The other thing that makes me mad is this.....

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7590674

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7321681

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7590619

There are WAY to MANY dogs in shelters and pounds.


***Edited By: Rescuepup on 1/9/2007 6:07:22 PM***
Reason: typo

I completely agree! I think the reason people think these names up are because they sound better than MUTT. That's all they are.

I'm still not talking abut theprices of any dog, we have sick purebreds as well.
As I was trying to say, Why breed on to dogs when we already have sick breeds and obvious problems with them?

By the way... why oh why breed a softy and a poodle.. do we want snippy dogs or dogs that accualy are likley to bite?

We need to improve the breeds we have, not make up new ones.

Wandering_Spirit,

"We need to improve the breeds we have, not make up new ones"

You said the perfectly that is what we need to do!

Thank you rescue :)

My Mom just got a "designer dog". She had been visiting the shelters the past few months looking for a companion.( She had to put down her Doberman of12 years a couple years ago)She fell in love with a golden/poodle mix pup. Someone had paid over 1000 for this pup, then decided they had no time for her so dumped her at the pound after having her a few weeks!