So you post pictures taken by "unchain dogs" extremeist group. you post pictures of dehydrated, malnurished dogs. And say they are fighting dogs. HA!....I am pretty sure that if I was fighting dogs, I would be ensuring there health, feeding them, and feeding them good. giving them plenty of water.
People that fight dogs depend on their dogs to be in good physical shape so they can win the fights. They lose too much money if they lose a dog. I don't know anyone personally that fights dogs and I am glad I don't but I have seen articles and enough about it to know that the dogs used for fighting are not usually thin and malnourished. They are well fed and muscular. They pull cement blocks around to build their strength and muscles.
Temperment test society?? Your joking right. Has anyone wlse ever heard of this. Are they sactioned by the goverment? What's the test? Who over sees. this?
And when a golden retreiver bites it genrely does not kill or dis figure.
Riley this is exactly what I am talking about. I love pits, hell I would own one. But I would not sit and compare it to a golden. I would handle the dog, as if.....IT WERE A PIT BULL. A dog with enormous power, and maybe, just maybe. a little spark inside that may tell it to bite. Even though I am sure through the careful breeding of rednecks who fought dogs. that no human aggressive dogs ever made it through.
What I am trying to put out. is stop giving false informantion.
Malinios are bred to bite humans. hell they love it. Why do we not have this problem. Because the people who handle these dogs, protect them, they acknowledge the dogs power, and desire (and I am not saying the pit has the same desire, but the pit defintly has it's charcterisitics that if the dog goes off, things go south fast)
And so they protect it. I have high fences, with kennels, that secure my dogs. no people cannot pet my dog. my dog does not go into petsmart or home deopt. why, because some knot head kis will blow in addies face. and addie will, not maybe, addie will bite for an infraction that small. I acknowledge how dangerous she can be. So I treat her as I would a loaded gun. I feel that the pit bull deserves the same respect. And all to often it is not given it. people are so sure there dog is petey fromt he little rascals. till some know head kid tries to pet the nice dog in the car.
riley have you ever put a dog through, or known someone who has put a dog through an ATTS temp test ?
2 reasons i ask :
1. what did you/they think of the test ?
2. i put scout through it when she was 18 months old. how they tested the dogs for aggression level was lame. at least IMO it was. the "attacker" never got closer than 15 or 20 feet , if i remember right, from us and was absolutely no threat at all. all the guy did was grumble like he was drunk and wave a stick at the ground. i imagine there are probably some dogs that would have barked or lunged at the guy, but the dogs i watched that day, and scout, just stared at the man and wagged their tails. if i wasn;t so nervous throughout the test with her i probably would have died laughing.
All I can say as a former Children's Protective Services Worker, I did see the other side first hand. I have said this more than once on here...... I have had SEVERAL parents with pit bulls that attacked and permanently maimed THEIR children say...... 'I didn't know'.
I also went to a 4 hour seminar on dog fighting with a NATIONAL speaker. I can tell you that they made it very clear when approaching these dogs that they WERE DANGEROUS TO PEOPLE.
I know, I know.... every one is wrong (even people with first hand knowledge). It is a media conspiracy against pit bulls.
***Edited By: Scout1 on 1/15/2007 11:51:20 PM*** Reason: Rules:use clean language
I think I need to comment because I have been attacked by a pit bull. It belonged to friends. I had known him for his entire life. He had never shown any signs of aggression to any thing, human or animal, for 6 years. He was not provoked in any way. We were barbequing and I was sitting in a lawn chair when all of a sudden he freaked out, ran up from behind me, and latched on to the back of my head. Luckily he didn't grab my face and there were enough people to get him off me quickly. It took almost 200 stitches to put my scalp back together. Still after this I don't think they should be banned. Like any animal they aren't predictable. Look at Roy and his tigers. No matter how much time you spend with any animals or how well you know them they are still animals and will do what they want. We take a risk being around or owning any animal. With pit bulls I think they can be more unpredictable because they have been breed for aggression for so long and it's going to take a lot of breeding away from that before we fix the problem. Sadly thatís the draw for lots of people, so there will always be people wanting a mean pit. I also think they get blamed for a lot since there are so many breeds that can be mistaken for pit bulls. It seems like every attack in the news is a pit bull whether it really is or not. It definitely takes a special person to raise them. One that can realize what they are capable of and doesn't look at the world through rose colored glasses because theirs has never done anything. There is always the chance and you should be prepared for it, if it happens. I've known many other sweet pit bulls, but I guarantee you I'm a leery or them and watching their every move because you never know what could happen.
http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/10478/IN/US/ "Rebecca Stevens, the humane society's executive director, said all eight pit bulls were malnourished and scarred from fighting, and several had pieces of their ears missing. Dogs are often starved to make them more aggressive, she explained. "
http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/10469/NJ/US/ "There was a 2-year-old male pit bull weighing 40 pounds that was tied on a chain weighing 83 pounds. The dog had an abscess on its neck, along with old bite wounds and scars on its face, head and neck"
http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/9885/WI/US/ "he found two pit bulls penned inside a closed garage on a 95-degree day and another pit bull chained to a pole in the basement. None of the animals had food or water"
I have never heard of a temperment test society, but I have given many dogs temperment tests. Scout, what you describe is not anything like a temperment test...maybe in rescues it is different, but we have a list of 44 things which we put a dog through. We test them with food, treats, rawhides, cats, other dogs, children, strange people, people they have never met...all very close to them in their area (of course protected from the dog just in case). Some dogs pass with flying colors...others pass, but don't care for the cats or other dogs, and some need serious work before they can be considered adoptable (whether for fear or aggression reasons). I have seen all sorts of dogs who pass and don't pass. I would say that we get about a thousand or so dogs a year, lots are labs, beagles, terriers. We also get a lot of pit bulls. When we test the more powerful dogs like pits, rotties, boxers, etc, we also do a more in depth dominance test because the main reason people cannot control their dogs are because of dominance problems. From what I have seen in the rescue, pits pass nor fail either test more or less than other dogs. I'd say they are about equal, but at the same time, we do handle them differently. We will not adopt them to an owner who will house them outdoors, if not already trained they have to take them to obedience classes and show proof, and we always do a home visit. This is because so many want pits for the wrong reasons.
but let the pitbull advocates just keep saying it's how they are raised. Let me know how that works out for you. Let me know if that key piece of information sways the legislation. Again if I were bettin man, that argument would be the emaciated, dehydrated, pit will abcesses on it's neck.
gunny, do you know how fighting dogs get that way? dogs are not just thrown in a ring and told to attack and they do it...no, first they are starved, beaten, and dehydrated to the point where they have to find food or die. Then prey is put within reach, a smaller dog, cat, anyhing for the dog to attack, kill, and eat. Dog kills animal, dog is rewarded. Yes, some fighting dogs can be kept in great condition, but this is after they are trained to fight by being starved and they see other dogs as food then. other fighting dogs are kept in horrible conditions and still fight. Nobody cares about the dogs...if both are equally sick and emaciated, then there is still a chance for money to be made.
How do you think they train these dogs gunny? With treats and clickers.
Well if your calling those dogs "dummies" or dogs that real fighting dogs beat up on.
Those are not fighting dogs. they are what a punching bag is to a boxer.
So again my statement stands true.
I have a question, If this all is just a huge case of misunderstanding. why the pit bull? why not the doberman or the rotti (which I think is probably the breed among the powerful dogs, with least mental stability). Why this dog?
And if we can agree that dogs can fall aprt geneticly through over breeding. and most defnitly the pit has been over bred. can it fall apart mentally? whcih would make sense seeing the pit bull is almost a masterpiece physically.
***Edited By: gunny on 1/16/2007 12:29:02 AM*** Reason: s
rescuepups this was an entirely different type of temperament test.
recalling from memory these were a few things we did in the test. scout had to meet a friendly stranger, walk near someone who hid behind a blind and came out and banged on a bucket. we had to walk up to the bucket to see if scout would shy away from it since it made a loud noise or if she would investigate it, we had to stand still while someone shot a gun off behind us, we had to walk past someone sitting on a bench and they opened an umbrella up right as we got to them. we had to walk across different things on the ground that would similate like walking across a grate on a city street, then we got to the aggressive stranger part. there may have been more to the test, but thats what i recall.
scout passed and we have a certificate from ATTS, for whatever it is worth lol. it is kinda like the canine good citizen test that the AKC does, but a little more in depth.
Rescuedogs-- Do you think if dogs had prior aggression issues that the families that I am talking about would chance having their kids around them?
These are 'good dogs' that just snap and go off one day, and yes, some of it may be the kids-- but to me there is not excuse for a dog turning on a small child. Period.
I have seriously got after my kids for doing stupid stuff with the dogs and I warn them that they are lucky we have the dogs we have, but I still wouldn't tolerate a dog ATTACKING a child.
One of my old girls with arthritis 'bipped' my son in the mouth. It was a warning shot because he grabbed and pulled on her flews. Both got in to serious trouble, but I am quite certain that other dogs with an unstable temperment would have hurt him.
Definitely a different test...sounds a lot like the CGC test. Sorry for the confusion about the test. I think in rescue we just have to do everything to cover the bases. We do the bang the bucket thing though. Hey, congrats though on Scout passing the test!