I can't speak for puppy mills or for rescues as I do not have first hand knowledge of these facilities. But I do know alittle about show dogs. The 2 setters you see on the 2nd link do not spend much time in kennels/crates. Yes, they are crated at shows but they are exercised and let out on a regular basis. Further more we are with them at all times. They are crated at our home when we are away. However, they have the run of the house when we are home. Our couch is their couch our bed is their bed. I would suspect there are some skanky dog show people. But for the most part the ones I have met and know treat their dog as a family member.
I like him a lot better than I like most people. To you he's a dog. TO me he's an adopted son who is short, hairy, walks on all fours and doesn't speak clearly. I have no problem with any of these. <
Umm a show dog may be in a crate at a show but that is safety.
I happen to have a finished champion show dog laying across my legs atm. I'm laying in bed as I post about to nap for work. I have two more on the couch and my younger ones are in crates as any young silly dog might be when the owner is in bed.
I would not equiate my dogs with puppy mill dogs in their care thank you. I ask them to lounge in crates, get groomed out and trot around a ring a couple of times a year. The rest of the time they live as dogs do. The only diffrence may be that they are grooemd more often. I really don't think you can equate my grooming out my show dogs twice a month and keeping everyone in full coat similar to a mill situation.
As for breeding. Gee I have a house full of females, a house full of unaltered males and have managed to only have two planned breedings (ever) one of which was a frozen semin implant to a dog that I don't own.
Thats exactly what happens in puppy mills. I then take responsibility for my dogs and keep my puppies until I find them homes even if that means never. That sounds VERY similar to a puppy mill where the dogs are sold to brokers who sell to pet stores who sell to anyone wish cash.
Yeah I seem to be on that level.
On the best of days a dog is a dog, and on the worst of days a dog is a dog.
My dogs travel to dog shows in a 350,000.00 motor home where they do travel and sleep in crates, but at home they have 4,600 sq. ft. of house but choose to sleep in a crate even with an open door.
At shows they are turned out in 4 x 8 X-pens and at home they have a 5,500 sq. ft. dog run.
They show on a limited bases, are groomed once a week (minimum)eat the best food money can buy and travel with their medical records just in case they need to see a vet on the road.
I only have two a male and female both intact. Although we do plan on breeding in the spring we have managed to not have any unexpected litters. Oh yea, her breeding will be limited to two litters when we do breed her and they will be 2 years apart.
The longest time my show dog Paris has ever spent in a kennel was on her show circuits. She was in a crate or an 8x10 x pen for 4-6 weeks at a time. She is rarely in a kennel at home, she is in our fenced yard, field or in our house.
As with any of them it depends on the individual situation.
Boxers are like cookies you can't have just one :)
Well, today my show dog, Venus (borzoi), went to work with me. Yes, she had to spend time in a crate, but she could watch me bathe other dogs the whole time. And she had three play sessions with her cousin, Rose. After work, she played in the basement with the mutts while I put some shelves together down there. Then, we watched House together. She will sleep in a crate tonight, on top of a comfy bed, complete with toys and bones in case she doesn't feel like sleeping. It's a hard-knock life for her.
To start with Puppymill dogs get not training, no hands on attention, no grooming - and basically the minimum amount of care legal.
My show dogs are all fully housebroken, obedience trained, leashed trained - and they know what the "treat drawer" sounds like when it's opened. Like Icy, my young dogs are crated at bed time (much like any pet puppy). My adult show dogs get crated at shows when I'm working with another dog - oh wait, that statement implies I have a dog not in a crate... But outside of that, because all my dogs are trained and housebroken, they go where they please (my intact males even get along by the way...). This sometimes means there isn't much room in the bed for me (I bought a king sized about 2 years ago in hopes I would fit too)
Show dogs have to LIKE to be shown. If the didn't like it, it would be like putting a girl on stage at a beauty pagent who hates dresses... very very unsuccessful. My show dogs go nuts when they know it's a show day. They love being the center of attention, being told how pretty or handsome they are, and getting lots of very yummy expensive treats. They enjoy being groomed as they get me ALL to themselves for a long period of time where I stand and talk to them and they get to give me kisses. They are not robots. Because I love them, I make it fun for both of us.
Show dogs have to be happy, in shape, and well cared for to do well in the ring. I'm sure some people try to cut corners and not give them care - but I don't think they are winning much...
Show dogs know their name. They are bonded to at least one person. Puppymill dogs have no name (just a number - even if they have a name the breeder uses to ID them - the dog doesn't know it) and don't know what it's like to be loved by a person.
"To start with Puppymill dogs get not training, no hands on attention, no grooming - and basically the minimum amount of care legal."
Firstly the puppy mill dogs have to be groomed or else the owners get in trouble they get attention because they have to be taken care of when they get sick or otherwise...
"Show dogs know their name. They are bonded to at least one person. Puppymill dogs have no name (just a number - even if they have a name the breeder uses to ID them - the dog doesn't know it) and don't know what it's like to be loved by a person."
That statment is false also mill dogs have names and im sure they do get used how else would the owners know exactly which dog was sick to treat it if they didnt use ID numbers.?
Show dogs have to be happy, in shape, and well cared for to do well in the ring. I'm sure some people try to cut corners and not give them care - but I don't think they are winning much..."
The puppy mill dogs also have to be happy in shape and well cared for to make good representatives of their breed.
If they arent well cared for or groomed or taken care of properly the owners of the puppy mill would be shut down.
Sounds somewhat familiar to me...Show dogs get to run around a ring because thats what they were trained to do they know no other life style just like puppy mill dogs know no other life style..Sad to think of but I believe it even worse when owners let the dog see a home and family then get rid of the dog to a shelter when they end up in cages anyway.
How in world can you in your right mind compare a rescue with a puppy mill!!!!!! Rescues save dogs from the puppy mills they aren't impregnated all the time they don't get shot or beaten when they can no longer have pups. Now a dog show is way diffrent from both of these.
Puppy mills are places dogs are bred for one purpose and that is to make money. They house many different breeds and have multiple litters without giving it a second thought. They often don't take into consideration what the outcome of the breed will be. Were as a serious dog breeder that actually shows their work, takes care of them, socializes them, and is selective when breeding them, in turn hope to have a litter that is close to the dog breed standards.
A Rescue shelter is a place to house all the unwanted puppies bought at puppy mills. The goal for these places is to place them with happy healthy homes. They promote the spay and neuter program. A decent shelter should be in a good condition and the dogs should be socialized regularly.
sweetdogs76 "Sounds somewhat familiar to me...Show dogs get to run around a ring because thats what they were trained to do they know no other life style just like puppy mill dogs know no other life style..Sad to think of but I believe it even worse when owners let the dog see a home and family then get rid of the dog to a shelter when they end up in cages anyway."
Does this (show) dog look like he has no other life other than the ring? I don't mind you giving your opinion. But it would be nice if you had some knowledge behind it.
"Firstly the puppy mill dogs have to be groomed or else the owners get in trouble they get attention because they have to be taken care of when they get sick or otherwise..."
Not necessarily true. They can't be covered in feces or matted to the point they get skin infections. Short of that, they don't have to look pretty. Their coats don't have to be shiny. Take a Sheltie for example - the puppymill breeder can avoid regular brushing by shaving the dog down. This is easy and means no work for them. Puppymills rarely allow visitors and their USDA inspector doesn't care if the dog is shaved. Their teeth don't have to be clean. Their nails don't have to be short and neat. They don't have to smell good. They CAN be dirty as long as they aren't covered in mud...My idea of grooming and your idea of grooming must be different. I mean WELL groomed.
And actually, most puppymill dogs that get sick are probably put down if the vet bill is more than the breeder considers the dog is worth. What do you consider sick? I guarantee you my idea of sick and the puppymill breeder's will be different. You're assuming that the USDA inspector actually pays attention to individual dogs...NOPE. They just can't look like the walking dead - but having a case of kennel cough isn't going to slow the breeder down - or a parasite... And even if they do have fleas or something, they get a WARNING.
"That statment is false also mill dogs have names and im sure they do get used how else would the owners know exactly which dog was sick to treat it if they didnt use ID numbers.?"
I don't consider an ID number a name. Sorry. And the dogs themselves rarely actually hear their name OR ID number. If they are used it's between two people when they say "Buffy is in heat. Put her in with Fido". Buffy probably doesn't have the foggiest idea she is Buffy. She is more used to dog interaction than people interaction. She isn't "bonded" to anyone. She may identify that a person dumps the food in the trough each day, but that's about it. She isn't hugged. She never goes indoors - or rarely does. She does not know how to sit, down, come... She's probably never been on a leash. She's certainly never seen a treat or had her tummy rubbed.
"The puppy mill dogs also have to be happy in shape and well cared for to make good representatives of their breed."
Why do you assume that Puppymill breeders use good representations of their breed? Especially when they are breeding mixed breeds. If the dog has sperm and the female goes into heat, that is all they care about. They don't have to be happy. They just have to be alive and healthy enough to bare puppies. That doesn't mean they are what a pet owner considers healthy. I happen to know a Puppymill breeder who routinely falsilfies birthdates on her litters so that she can broker the puppies at a younger age (less expenses if she gets rid of them earlier, and the broker pays her based on the weight of the puppies at 8 weeks and her Sheltie puppies are often too big, so by saying a 6 week old puppy is really 8 weeks she gets more for them). No one can prove she does it, but she brags about it to anyone who will listen... If the breeder isn't using AKC as their registry, they can say they used one sire, and use a different dog instead. They don't have to be honest. The dogs certainly don't have to be good quality. They just have to be alive and able to reproduce...
"If they arent well cared for or groomed or taken care of properly the owners of the puppy mill would be shut down."
Again, your idea of well cared for and my idea of well cared for are obviously very different. AND who shuts these places down? The USDA or Humane Society. Did you know in Florida and Minneasota, the Humane Society can't take action unless the dog is laying in feces or doesn't have water - it doesn't even have to be clean, fresh water. It just has to be there. The USDA regulations for dog care in a kennel are eerily similar to the same regulations they have for all livestock. I personally think dogs and pigs are a bit different. The inspector from the USDA doesn't check individual dogs. They will do something if one looks obviously not well - but most dogs, especially "kennel dogs" are resilient animals and it takes A LOT for them to start acting sick. It's not the same situation as your household pet who is used to being indoors when it rains, or is very cold, or very hot. They get used to being soaking wet and muddy. They get used to being in 20 degree weather with ice caked between their pads. They get used to trying to stay cool in 90 degree heat and having to walk on concrete that is burning hot. It's kind of like how homeless people can survive a lot worse conditions than those of us that are used to a warm bed every night and 3 hot meals a day.
"Sounds somewhat familiar to me...Show dogs get to run around a ring because thats what they were trained to do they know no other life style just like puppy mill dogs know no other life style..Sad to think of but I believe it even worse when owners let the dog see a home and family then get rid of the dog to a shelter when they end up in cages anyway."
Ummm... most retired show dogs go to pet homes if they don't stay with their owner for life. I just placed one of my retired girl in a home with one of her puppies from her last litter. She sleeps on her new owner's feet every night in their bed and spends her days curled up on the couch with her son. She goes for long walks every evening with her family and to the dog park and then they stop by the doggy bakery for a cookie before heading home. This is the lifestyle she is accustomed to from living with me. I won't place one of my dogs in anything less. I also have NEVER dropped a dog off at the shelter... My dogs don't spend more than 8 hours in a crate a day - and that's if they sleep there... The crates are big and roomy with a clean soft bed and their favorite toys. They have fresh water that is changed before bed. They have their favorite chew bone. If they need a potty break, they whine and I get up at 3 AM and take them out...
Puppymill dogs sleep and live in a barn or kennel building. They don't sleep in a person's bed... They don't have toys.
Have you ever been to a Puppymill??? Have you ever been to a dog show and met a show dog??? I'm guessing you can answer both those questions as NO, because you are awfully ignorant as to the goings on of both... Basically you're just pulling statements out of your rear trying to make people who show sound like hypocrits... Good try, but you need to do some more research...