Another siberian husky owner actuallly multiple have told me that when my angel gets to aggressive to roll her over and gently hold her down like a pack leader (alpha dog ) would this reminds her that i am boss? anyone heard of this? I mean it kinda makes sense to me but you all know i am new to this..any thoughts would be great. thanks a bunch
I know that years ago, we were actually taught this with our dogs at obedience classes. Now they say that it is not a good thing. IMO it would just make matters worse. But I admittedly don't know much about huskies, maybe it is different for them.
Alpha Rolls, as they are called, were used because it was beleived, that becasue wolves display a similar behavior that we should do it to our dogs. The problem with that is our puppies and dogs aren't wolves, and their communication between each other is different. So what happens, is the owner puts their dog in the role, which is supposed to make the dog submit, but really its causeing the animal to not trust our behaviors. Instead we get dogs that fear people, bite and avoid us. Wolves are not dogs, we have been breeding those behaviors out of our dogs for centuries, and now our dogs behave like Wolf pups. I guess it is kind of an accident really, cave men would keep playful or more tame animals, these animals would breed, and produce more wolves that would be even more tame and playful(puppy like) Alot of these things are genetic. The alpha Roll we see in Wolves is a more of a display, to signal that they are submitting to the higher ranking animal, but the more submissive one rolls over on his own, and the Alpha animal may stand over the other one.So it kind of looks like the Alpha animal is forceing the other animal down.But this isn't the case.
ok so i have been trying the alpha roll to see how anget reacts and so far so good one gentle roll and a couple firm no's and she doesn't jump on us anymore plus my 6yr old is also involved with this and wow does my laundry thank me.lol we are seeing a steady decline in holey laundry..yeah..
You are attempting to dominate your dog, rather than be a leader. If the only way you can get your dog to respond is by intimidating him, you are going to end up with bigger problems in the long run. You are not establishing a relationship based on trust, but on fear. Your laundry may thank you, but your dog sure doesn't.
Oh, I also want to add-under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should a 6 year old be doing alpha rolls on a dog!!! Both could end up getting potentially hurt, and the dog will end up getting the blame, when it is NOT his fault. I would suggest you take your dog to some training classes run by a professional.
I realize this is a controversial topic apparently i see the dangers in what could be but let me just saymy trainer and i feel this is a good option for my dog, if you knew her and could see the change you would understand. I am tired of being chastised on this forum for how i am or how i am traing my dog. She is healthy fed and never abused there for who are you to tell me how to raise my dog. Better yet who are you to tell me how to raise my children, my son is a very active part of our pups training. everything is monitored all the time. He is never with her or doing anything with her without me my husband or trainer in the room. Now please if you are gonna chastise me or critize me please don't bother..
I don't think anybody was chastizing you. I apologize if you took it that way, but you did ask for thoughts and opinions on the technique. That is what you received. From what I understand, doing the alpha roll is compared to somebody holding a knife to your throat. Would that make you trust somebody? Or would it just make you more afraid of them? Think about it that way.
That's typical. Ask for advice, and then get angry when someone disagrees with you. If you already think you are doing the right thing, why even ask for opinions? I don't remember you saying, "please only respond if you agree with me because I already think I am doing everything just perfect"
The alpha roll was made popular many years ago by the Monks of New Skete. They have since then said that they regret using that and have recanted that as a method of training. Some people, apparently, didn't get the message.
I think that the method of training depends on the dog itself. I have used this method with some of my rotties, but I would never do it with my pugs. It wasn't needed with my coyote mix either. Ironically! It would be overboard with them. Some dogs will test their owners in an attempt to take over as the member of the pack. That wolf instinct is still there. It is impossible to tell unless one has access to the particular dog.
She said the dog was "jumping up on her". Not what I would call aggressive. If the dog were truly aggressive, I would hope she wouldn't be allowing a 6 year old to play with it. Just sounds like a typical dog trying to get attention, and she mislabels it as being "aggressive". Claims she has a trainer, but comes onto a forum to ask advice. Gets advice (from more than 1 person, basically saying the same thing) and then complains about the advise she gets.
As I said before, why even ask a question if you're not going to listen to the answers. It is perfectly acceptable to have differing opinions. If you don't get angry about someone else says, you might even learn something.
Right on do what you have to do, not everyone can say what the right way is because for every dog they will act different. if it works for you then keep doing it. I will let you know that i have had rescues that we have tried this on and our own dogs too. they were not afraid of me at all they just wanted some direction. i have researched and went to trainers as well and believe me, sometimes we have to put our foot down and say this is what works and now i have respect from my dog!!!
The only thing I can offer to people who use training programs solely based on social status. Is to go ahead and read up on learning theory. primarily on operant and classical conditioning. It will give you a more well rounded look at what may be going on and how to solve it. Though I do believe social status maybe the motivation in some behaviors. The right tactic may not be to get into a social conflict with the dog.
When it comes to learning and the basic princpals. there is no difference in breed, in fact there is not difference in any mammal. You learn as a dog learns on basic levels. Through operant and classical conditioning.
The reason that social implication training is so widely accepted I believe is that It is much easier to learn and execute. It takes a long time to learn how rewards and aversives can communciate ideas to an animal that can not speak.
I began my dog training career with a program based on gaining dominace over the dog. The results were mostly mediocre, and sometimes irreverisavble damaging. After studying the implications of learning theory, psychology and social status. I have been much more rounded trainer, getting much better results.
And for masstif love. This how I would handle jumping. I am pretty sure that the jumping is a sign of affection and excitement. That's not something I would discpline. I would want to preserve that in the dog. What the dog wants is love back. So I would teach the dog to sit. I would also teach the dog what no reward markers are. Google no reward markers if you want more info. but these communicate to the dog that have done the wrong thing, and nothing good is going to happen. Once the dog has learned sit. When the dog goes to jump I would say my no reward marker, and step forward, interupting the jump. Then ask the dog to sit. once the dog sits. give love and a reward. if the dog attempts to jump again, step forward no reward marker. anf reiforce sit. this time I would try anticpate the jump and give the no reward marker when I can see the are preparing to jump. THe nice thing about dogs is they want what they want and are willing to work for it.
A great book for more wanting learn about dog learning theory, is how dogs learn! by dr baush and dr bailey.
I believe a dog's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment he holds dear, is when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-with a ball in his mouth."
catlover and sue i agree with both of you. alpha rolls are outdated and can be down right dangerous if you are dealing with an aggressive dog. wolves do not go around alpha rolling other wolves they meet in order to establish dominance. in fact, most people who are not aware of subtle body posturing in dogs wouldn't even recognize how wolves and dogs display their dominance to other dogs/wolves.
an alpha roll is a threatening gesture in a dog's point of view. if you have an already aggressive dog, and you try to alpha roll them, you will be met with resistance and an escalated aggression response from the dog. few people are matched physically in strength with a dog, and if you try this and fail, you will be in a worse position than you were beforehand.
benevolence is the key to providing true alpha leadership, not scare tactics.
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.