I am thinking about gettng a puppy from * Kennels in Minnesota and am wondering if anyone has any experience dealing with this kennel. I don't want to purchase a puppy from a puppy mill and want to make sure this is a reputable dog kennel. Any guidance or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
***Edited By: pyrmom on 6/14/2007 8:11:01 AM*** Reason: please don't provide full, legal kennel names on the forum
Definately a puppymill. I googled there name and a ton of breeds pop up.
Someone on another forum I post at was recently looking into them. there are a lot of complaints against them and its a sick place.
The person wnating to buy there was supposed to pick up the pup and it was suddenly sick with a "cold".
I'll pm you a link to that thread.
this is almost commical "QUESTION: Are the pups raised in the house?
ANSWER: No. Frankly, no-one could have litters of puppies like this in a clean, healthy, environment in the house. And, we have a small grooming shop and boarding kennel, so we're at work in our kennel anyway. Mike and Lucy generally begin their day with the puppies at about 6 am, and finish up about 5 pm, with a final walk for the dogs at about 9 pm. The kids, Elizabeth (12), Charles (5), Rachel (3), and Eleanor (2) love to play with the pups. The babysitter has a scheduled time to bring the three little ones out the "shop" to play with puppies every day. "
"QUESTION: Why don't we post pictures of all the adults (especially the mother)?
ANSWER: We of course, like to make sure that the pictures that we post on the site represent the dogs fairly. Many dogs are just not that comfortable about getting their picture taken! Grooming, bathing, and vaccinations are given in the grooming shop, the same room we use to take the adult photos. Some of the dogs are just not that happy standing on a grooming table, with a strange, noisy, object shoved in front of their face (the camera, click, buzz, whir ;-) ) How many of you like your photo taken? How can we make a dog "smile" that is not happy on the table? I'm too old (I know I'm only 42, but my legs are 84!), with 4 knee surgeries, and just can't get down on the ground or back up again to take pictures from the dog's level. Often, we have photos of these adults - while they're not suitable for public viewing on the website, we can e-mail them to you privately. Taking dog photos is very hard. The person holding the camera can't just reach out and adjust the dog. The person holding the pup can't see what the camera sees. AARRGGHH! Maybe it wouldn't be so hard if we weren't so picky :-) The other reason that it's tough to get good, representative adult photos, is that once the ladies start to cycle, their coat goes through changes every cycle, and every pregnancy. Just about the time the coat is nearly nice enough to photograph, she's back into "season" and blowing her coat again. "
Its pathetic. they breed ever heat and how we figured it out they ahd to have something like 150 dogs there to have all the pups they say they do. More than likely it is a broker and they do not actually do all that breeding themselves.
If I have any beliefs about immortality, it is that certain dogs I have known will go to heaven, and very, very few persons -James Thurber
Here is what to look for in a good breeder-and this is jsut the basics
--How knowledgeable is the breeder about this particular breed? Are they familiar with its historical origins? Can they educate you about the breed's disadvantages - especially genetic predisposition to health problems and characteristics like shedding, slobber, dominance, inter-dog aggression, etc. that may make owning the breed a challenge? Beware of anyone who sounds like a salesman and tells you that their breed has no disadvantages! Good breeders will play devil's advocate.
--Are the breeder's dogs screened for genetic health defects like hip dysplasia, eye disorders, hypothyroidism, Von Willebrand's disease, epilepsy, cardiac conditions, and anything else that is common in the breed? Can they provide you with proof, e.g., CERF and OFA certification and other relevant veterinary documentation? A good breeder will welcome your concern and be glad to offer the requested information - beware of anyone who is defensive! An excellent breeder will candidly discuss the health of their line of dogs, including the problems that have cropped up. Even good breeders can produce unhealthy dogs on occasion. The difference is that the good breeder is on a mission to find and remove those genetic influences from their breeding lines. The irresponsible breeder approaches health in a haphazard manner.
--Does the breeder have any old dogs on the premises? How long have their own dogs lived, and from what have they died? Beware of the person who sells off their adult dogs that are retired from showing and breeding. You want a breeder who loves the breed, not someone who loves to breed.
--How many breeds is this person breeding? Ideally, someone will have a special interest in only one breed (perhaps two). A Jack-of-all-Breeds truly is a master of none. How many litters does the breeder have in any given year? A good breeder may breed one or two litters, or may not breed at all for a year or more between litters. More is never better. Anyone who is producing a large number of dogs is probably doing it at the expense of quality.
--Are the breeder's dogs kennel dogs or house pets? While it is sanitary to keep large numbers of dogs outside in a kennel, you want a breeder who keeps their dogs in the house with the family. Breeders who keep their dogs in kennels may have temperament defects (like excessive dominance) of which they are not even aware. Puppies should be raised inside an active home to begin socializing them to a household environment.
--Will the breeder provide you with the names of their veterinarian and several past purchasers to serve as references? If given a choice, request pet references. Certainly a professional trainer will be able to handle a tough puppy, but what about a family with three kids and a cat? If the latter just loves the temperament of their dog, that speaks volumes. Ask the breeder about the homes that haven't worked out. There are bound to be some. Is the breeder honest that they made a poor placement, sympathetic to someone who underwent a life change that necessitated returning a dog, blunt that they produced a problem dog... or is the breeder bitter and accusatory about the person who bought the dog? Beware of the narrow-minded breeder who places blame on everyone but themselves.
--What kind of guarantees does the breeder offer? Most will offer a replacement puppy or refund of purchase price if your puppy manifests a serious genetic defect. Any responsible breeder will want to keep in touch with you and be informed if your dog develops health problems. The better ones may ask you to have your pet OFA and/or CERF screened when it is old enough (as your dog reflects on their breeding stock). Truly caring breeders will insist that you return your puppy to them if you are unable to keep it for any reason during its entire life.
--Does the breeder expect to sell you a puppy with strings attached? Concerned, responsible breeders will insist that you neuter your pet puppy as soon as it is old enough. They may have you sign a contract to this effect, or they may sell the puppy with limited registration (which means that if you do breed it, you cannot register the offspring). Remarkable breeders will pediatrically neuter puppies before sending them off to their new homes. This is a very good sign in a breeder, so much so that I would be suspicious of any breeder who does not insist on neutering.
--On the other hand, beware of any breeder who tries to sucker you into a breeding contract. They will treat you like you're stupid by flattering you and trying to con you into agreeing to keep your pet intact and breeding one or more litters, giving the breeder back one or more puppies from each litter. This is the biggest scam around. You get stuck with the expense and inconvenience (not to mention health risks) of keeping an intact animal and then providing the breeder with free puppies. If a breeder tries to talk you into this kind of pyramid scheme, find another breeder.
--At what age does the breeder send puppies to their new homes? Avoid any breeder who wants to send home a puppy younger than seven weeks. Many good breeders will release puppies at 8 weeks, but as long as the puppy is being actively socialized, it is arguably better to wait until 10 or 12 weeks.
--What does the breeder do to socialize their puppies? Ask them for specifics. Good breeders will have lots of toys and activities to which to expose their puppies. Mild stress is excellent for making puppies resilient later in life. A breeder who allows their puppies to experience different sounds, surfaces, etc. and meet different people is trying hard. A breeder who keeps their puppies in some sort of ultra-sanitary, almost sterile vacuum is doing the puppies a great disservice. Puppies raised in a kennel should be avoided.
--A good breeder will be very interested in who you are and somewhat choosy about whether you are able to provide an adequate home for one of their cherished pups. A breeder who wants to see your home, your kids, your spouse, your other pets, proof of your fencing, or talk to your veterinarian is simply trying to make sure that you will take good care of their pup. Do not resent this. Good breeders want to keep in touch with you after you've purchased a puppy and will be there for you with support and advice later on. Avoid breeders who take credit card orders over the internet and ship puppies to anyone who wants them. NO responsible breeder will sell a puppy to a pet store or other broker for resale.
--A good breeder will participate in breed rescue efforts for the breed they love. This is important. Anyone who scoffs at breed rescue or is not personally involved in it in any way is someone to be avoided. Often the best place to begin your search for a good breeder is to ask breed rescue volunteers for their recommendations.
--Good breeders think ahead and make reservations in advance for the puppies they will produce. You may have to wait for a puppy, but that's not a bad thing. Beware of someone who first creates puppies and then worries about how to disperse them.
--What does the breeder do for a living? Dog breeding should be an avocation. Avoid anyone who makes their living through breeding dogs! The corners they cut financially may be at your expense.
--Are the premises clean and orderly? Are the breeder’s dogs healthy in appearance? It can be a messy proposition to raise a litter of puppies, but puppies should not be wallowing in waste, covered with fleas, or otherwise appear neglected. Keep in mind that many longhaired bitches will shed their coats heavily during this time, so if the puppies’ mother appears a little ratty it is not necessarily inappropriate or unusual.
--Do you like the temperaments of the puppies' parents? Remember, temperament is genetic! Avoid puppies from bitches that demonstrate any aggression or shyness. Specifically inquire about possessiveness (food and object guarding), inter-dog aggression, defensiveness about being handled, etc. Accept no excuses for undesirable behavior. Don't be afraid to ask the breeder to demonstrate the *****'s good temperament to you.
--Has the breeder or will the breeder allow you to temperament test the litter? While puppy-testing is not especially predictive of adult temperament, it’s an attempt to gauge a puppy’s personality so that it can be best matched with a new owner. Ask the breeder's permission before doing anything to a puppy. No potential buyer has the right to do anything to a puppy which a breeder perceives as potentially harmful.
--Does your breeder respect veterinarians, trainers, groomers, breeders, and other peer professionals in the dog world? Beware of breeders who are paranoid or hostile towards other professionals. One cannot operate competently in a vacuum, and in general, good breeders are socially well-networked. They are liked, like others, and respect competent professionals in their field. A good breeder should make the effort the know other good breeders (especially of their own breed). It is important for a breeder to strive to improve their knowledge and understanding of their breed and submit to peer critique, even if it is not necessarily formalized (as in the show ring). http://www.kateconnick.com/library/breeder.html
Of course there is also rescue-a lot of these dogs that ocme from the mills end up in rescue.
If I have any beliefs about immortality, it is that certain dogs I have known will go to heaven, and very, very few persons -James Thurber
Yeah...it is definitely NOT that hard to take pictures of dogs. And I can hold a camera and adjust my dog very easily. My dog sits and poses for pictures. I know not every dog does but I have taken pictures of several dogs and gotten good pictures. What a stupid excuse
I adopted a puppy from * Kennels in Minnesota. They did call me a week before I was going to pick her up and said they might have to hold off her adoption for a while because some of the other puppies had colds. She was vet checked the day before our origional adoption date and passed off as healthy. She coughed on our way home from Brainard and has not stopped since. She has been in and out of the vet for kennel cough, parasites, pnemonia + bronchitis for over 2 months now and we are still waiting for her to get better. It has been determined by 2 vets that she was sick when I got her. It has been a very frustrating, costly and emotional couple months. There were a few times where I really thought she might die. I contacted * Kennels more than a few times with no responce so I got a Pet Owners Advocate involved. I was looking for support for the bills since I was guarenteed a healthy puppy. The advocate was actually able to get a hold of them and I was told to get copies of all the vet visit notes and mail them out to them so thier vet can look them over. Which I always thought was funny considering thier vet was the one who passed her off as healthy in the first place. I got them the papers along with all the financial information I am looking to be reimbursed for. A week and a half later I called them just to confirm that they recived my packet and she said "Yes we did and I actually just got done writing you a check." I thought that was great but I assumed the check was for the total amount for all the vet visits. She then proceded to tell my how rude and obnoxious the Pet Owners Advocate has been. They hadent responded to any of my msgs for 3 weeks, why wouldnt have I gotten him involved. I did recieved the check with a nice note. It said something like.... Glad your dog is getting better, here is a check for the total amount that you paid for her, thank you. The only problem is that the check is for $400 less than the vet bills. I left her a msg, like that does any good, and said how unfair I thought that was. I was expecting to pay that $ for her, not for the vet bills when I was promised a healthy puppy and asking her to call me. She is yet to get back to me. That is how my experience has been with * Kennels. Oh, and they tattoo thier pups on the stomach with the 1st letter of thier mothers name. Never told me, I called and asked after I spent a while trying to rubb it off of her. Since I recieved the check I have done alot of research on breeders laws in MN and I discovered that they do not have to pay anything over the amount the dog was purchased for. I am ok with that, now. They did give me a puppy that is so sweet and cute that I couldnt imagine her with anyone else. And that makes me think about the other puppies in thier kennel. The ones who dont get adopted and the ones who do but dont get families who can afford to take care of them with health problems. Poor puppies!!
***Edited By: pyrmom on 6/20/2007 2:14:48 PM*** Reason: please do not provide entire kennel names or breeder names on the open forum.
Hope your pup gets better! Did you sign a sales contract/health guarantee? Many times it will depend on how much time has lapsed from the sale to when the pup got sick, when it is documented, in what time frame you contacted them, etc. I would say you were lucky to get the price of the pup back by the sound of it....so you may have to be happy with that. Unless of course there was a contract involved in which time that prevails.
Good luck with your puppy!!
People are like slinky's, not really good for much. But its still fun to push them down the stairs.
Since my last post I have gotten a little further with the breeders. I contacted them one last time thru email telling them I understand the MN laws now and I will 'eat' the rest of the $ for those vet bills. She responded this time! They are giving me the rest of the money! That is very nice of them and I REALLY appreciate them doing that!!
You should never buy a puppy from a kennel. They are basicly a puppy mill. I bought my $1800 Yorkshire terrier puppy from a petstore who buys their puppies from * Kennels... who is a puppy broker so they are basicly the middle man who buys puppies from mills then sell those puppies to petstores. I just recently found out the breeder my puppy came from is in fact a mill. She breeds many different breeds.. i read a report i requested from a website online (petshoppuppies.com) that said she had 120 puppies at her house during a routine inspection. who does that? who has 120 puppies for sale? it just really made me sad. when i bought my puppy she had a internal parasite called giarda... the nastiest part is people can get giardia.. ew.. she also has luxating patellias, and had a cough and was sneezing when i got her.. 4 treatments later her giardia was gone. she was also very very scared for the first month and a half after i brought her home.. she just wasnt happy like puppies are suposedd to be. im just hopeing she doesnt have any hereditary problems when she gets older b/c she did come from a mill. my poor poor baby, im just glad she has a wonderful life now. Just dont buy from those type of people no matter how cute the puppy is. its not worth the heartache/.. sorry for spilling my whole story but everyone should know that even "usda breeders" or "good breeders" as people call them.. are not good breeders, they are just in it for the money
***Edited By: pyrmom on 6/22/2007 6:24:44 AM*** Reason: *
PLEASE, do not mention the proper Kennel name, owner/breeder's name exact addresses, phone numbers or e-mail address on the open forum. I truly sympathize with both of you and all others who have purchased sick and/or genetically defective puppies from unethical breeders. I also agree that others need to be warned and informed.
However, this is a legal issue between purchaser and breeder/broker. I edited the earlier posts, requesting that kennel names not be provided on the forum for this reason.
If you give non-specific information warning folks, they are welcome to PM you for specifics or discuss it with you in chat. OFF the forum.
Thanks and I hope your pups recover fully and live long, healthy and happy lives.
"Don't accept your dog's admiration as conclusive evidence that you are wonderful".