Through our earlier thread and discussions on what dogs know and feel and think, this link was provided from anchoress about a dog named Rico. I would like to know your thoughts on this. Please. Enjoy. http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/06/10/dog.language.ap/
Summergirl, not sure if you wanted only Hoosgow to reply, but...anyone who has known and loved any breed of dog will agree that they absolutely understand our language, both spoken AND unspoken. Thanks for the link, it's very interesting and just goes to prove what the animal lover in all of us jave always known, doesn't it? ; )
sorry summergirl for jumping in here but i thought this might be of some interest to you. read the book the culture clash by jean donaldson. epecially pages 9 - 20. she discusses anthropomorphism like i did last night. it is a very interesting read .
Everybody has their own opinions summergirl, and if you are still at it about if dogs can feel cropping awhile after the procedure.............well...that topic is over. Just drop it...Forget it. We won't ever agree. I was with my puppy, Chili Pepper and her sister as they had their dew claws removed. The breeder clipped them off and put them with their mom. C.P.'s sister squeaked, but C.P. didn't say anything. No yelps, cries....Just a little movement. I am not saying that this link that you provided is about cropping, which it isn't, but you kind of slipped in "Through our earlier thread and discussions on what dogs know and feel and think"...That link wasn't even about cropping or docking.
It is an interesting article but to me it just shows a dog that is reacting to a very well trained behavior. patterns and habit form a lot of what a dog does, again the experience thing. was dove hunting with an old shorthair that was getting bored. not to many dove flying. anyway, this dog had been trained to retrieve to hand and had done so hundreds of times. well when she got bored she left and disapeared into the bushes. 20 minuts later she came back with a wounded pigeon that must have been shot the day before by the folks 1/2 a mile away. no shot fired, did not in anyway see the bird fall, all things that had happened before, but because the retrieve was so ingrained in her from training and repitition, she brought it right to hand. patters strongly created can and do produce results even in new or different situations. My viszla earlier this year had started her formal training. one of the first steps is to train "here" and turning on her name as well as staying ahead of us and not back casting. she did very well and we did enough repititions to really ingraine in her the pattern of what to do to react to a command. then inside of one week we put her into 2 different situations. 1. ran her off of horseback for the first time and 2. taken to a completly different field. both times, did perfectly regardless of the new or different circumstances. they are capabal of a lot but it comes back to training and experience.
Summergirl, I hope you are not still making an argument that dogs have the ability to conceptualize. Earlier someone made a very interesting comment that relates to your argument. If dogs in the shelter know they are about to die then why do some wag their tale right to their doom?
actually a wagging tail doesn't always mean happiness. it can mean stress, anxiety, and wag during aggression, depending on how the tail is held and how fast or slow and how wide or narrow it is being wagged.
Hoosgow, Let's just say that dogs react purely through trained behaviour, okay? just bear with me on this one, How is that any different than a human? We are taught, or if you will, trained from the time we are a baby to act and be a certain way. It is ALL a learned beahviour. I do believe that dogs cannot process everything in the terms that we do but why is it so hard to think that they cannot be thankful/grateful? Tell me something, what are your thoughts on family pets who have bonded with the family as most dogs do but, you know, not really trained to do much more then be a family pet, that when a kid falls in the pool they will save them, or what about the kids that wander away with their dogs and are gone all night and the dogs will cover the kids with their bodies to help keep them warm, How is that learned? Why is it so far fetched to think that a dog cannot be grateful to a person for taking them out of a shelter, a kennel with hundreds of other dogs barking, out of all the things that they feel, why can't being grateful be one of them?
Just one more question, we had a dog in our shelter named Willy, he was a Rottweiler/Chow Chow mix, he was in our shelter one week shy of being there a year, most dogs don't make it that long, they usually get "picked", are adopted, or end up going kennel crazy, anyway, he didn't, he was adopted 1 week before he was there a year, he saw dogs come in and dogs go out, he went through a few periods of depression, so can you honestly tell me that after almost 1 year that dog was not grateful to the people who walked in there and decided that he was the dog for them? I would also like to hear your opinions on this, please?
Hmmm... I think they understand "English." And our body language. But I don't think they comprehend, "Why do you do that?" That is a very open topic, talking & dogs comprehending. ---Allie the Chihuahua is mine! hpp://www.dogster.com/?41063 Wanna be pup pals?
" appreciative of benefits received " is the definition of grateful. from that i surmise that an animal would need to know the value of something in order to be appreciative of it. value can be defined in 2 ways. one is the actual price of something and 2 is what something means to you. now we all know animals know nothing of prices but they do know about objects holding value. if they them selves didn't place value on certain things such as bones, food or toys then we wouldn't have problems with some dogs and resource guarding. the value of being taken out of the shelter and given a good home is placing a value on an idea not an actual object. to us taking an animal out of a shelter is a good idea and that holds value to us for doing a good deed. this is not something an animal is capable of processing. they are just not that advanced in thinking terms. for them to be grateful they were taken out of the shelter and given a good home they would need to be able to think abstractly and they don't. like i said before i am sure they are very happy to be out of a place such as a shelter but they are not " grateful"
Dogs can feel grateful for being taken out of a cage and put in a warm bed, but not being killed? If a dog can't put together something they did a few minutes earlier with the punishment, how are they going to predict what is forthcoming and feel grateful for it?