Hi Everyone. I have come to a very big decision. Those who know me, know that I have been breeding Dobermans for several years. I love me dogs, they are my life. However, my 2 intack males got at each other again, while a girl was in heat. I had them seperated by 6 foot fencing and still they got at each other. No stiches, but very scary. One is 140 pounds! One is now being kenneled until our girls heat cycle is finished. My big decision is to stop breeding and have everyone fixed and continue to spoil them rotten for the rest of their lives. Any thoughts? They never fight, until a female is at the end of her heat. It has happened only 2 times, I do not want a third time. My youngest male (year and half old, never mated - other male is 3 has had 3 litters, third male is 6 neutered as a pup. When no one is in heat, they adore each other. It is peaceful, they run outside in their 4 fenced in acres and relax in their old farmhouse. Am I doing the right thing? I have a great deal of peace about this decision. If you want to see my dogs go to LavelleDobermans.com.Thanks for any comments or words of encouragement!
IMHO there is no need a have a bunch of unaltered males running around. I would keep one intact and alter the rest of the males. To continue to breed is your decision. If you are doing it to improve the breed and doing all the necessary testing for your breed then you should continue. If you are doing it to allow everyone access to a pet bred Doberman than I would ask you to please stop. But that is just my opinion.
If your male is 140 lbs, he is WAYYYYYY outside the doberman standard (like 2x as heavy as normal), so why would you even want to breed him?
I know some males do get extremely aggressive when there's a female in heat around. Is there no way to move them so that their pens don't border each other, so they aren't able to get like this? Optionally, I have heard of people boarding 'problem boys' during the heat cycles of the females but a month of boarding is a long time, so I'm not sure that's a realistic option.
Never trust a tall dwarf... he's lying about something.
You know as well as anyone that has breed, that males and females alike will fight, if someone is in heat or just had puppies that only makes it worse. If you breed because you love to and you love your dogs that's one thing if you just do it for the money then that is something different. I would not say give it up because they fight maybe go down to one male and stud out if you need other lines, there are ways around it. I know I love all of our dogs and if I had to get rid of one it would be tough, but what got you into to breeding in the first place? that is what I would look at, and don't let someone tell you any different if you love it, don't stop because someone thinks you should!!!
Some stud males will fight. I personally know of a professional boxer handler that had his Champion stud that was killed by his own son. This handler also nearly lost a finger separating dogs in fights. It can happen to the best of people, if they have the wrong dogs.
Place or fix at least one of your males. Why even have a male? I really don't like male dogs. I am sure I have more girls than you and I just go out to outside studs.
It is worth it to pay the stud fee for AKC Champion health tested studs. Not only are you likely producing better quality puppies, but they are easier to place and you make up for the stud fee in the difference you can sell a nice Champion sired puppy, or an equally nice puppy that is just 'Champion bloodlines'.
If you have your own males, you are less likely to look around for the best possible stud for each of your girls individually. Many people often fall in to the temptation of 'just using your own'. I always have a stud fee or two in reserve at the bank, because even when I had my own male, I wanted the option of going elsewhere.
Bottom line, even if you keep and neuter both males that does not mean that you have to give up breeding your girls if you want to continue.
Boxers are like cookies you can't have just one :)
I agree with Minniyar. I believe dobermans are normally about 60-85lbs. I can't imagine how a doberman that weighs that much could possibly be healthy. I certainly wouldn't want a pup sired from a dog that is not even close to breed standard.
Thanks for all the advise. It has been a tought year and my decision is firm. I have tried to seperate them across yards, no luck. I did breed to better the breed. My female is a big Kimbertal that throws huge puppies. Everyone wants them, althought, as Minniyar stated, he is NOT breed standard. That was not planned, just the way Hazel & Murphy's genetics worked out. I breed for gentle diposition and health, I believe I have had great success. I have placed puppies in homes from Mass. to Peurto Rico. I still have a relationship with all the families, which is great. I just want to enjoy my babies. Many, including my vet, think I am making a rash decision. But hey, I am almost 50, (no I don't look it LOL!) I had to decide between thousands of dollars on a big kennel, or a new bedroom and a pool - well color me selfish, but I am choosing the pool! I adore my Dobies, they are the best. Murphy, who is in the kennel, only defends himself, he has never been a probelem. My nuetered male always starts and Murphy defends himself. The last fight (there have been 3 in almost 8 years of having Dobies, all in the last 4 years all when a girl was in heat.) Otto just jumped in. I think there are so many responsible Dobie breeders, I won't be missed! I have Hazel's last litter almost totally spoken for and Isabelle will be spayed after this heat (she did not get pregnant!) Anyway, I will enjoy being just a mom. No more up round the clock with puppies (well after this last litter!). I can finally have my dining room as an eating place ! I believe I blessed many people with excellent dogs. I was never in it for money. So this was an easy decision! God bless everyone! And I also thank you for the nice words about our site and my Dobie kids!
I think you are making a wise decision that will benefit both your dogs and you in the long run! Do keep your site up and running with pictures of your dogs as they grow as they are very beautiful! I'm deff partial to a big love bug dobie...
I have been to Kimbertal. It is only about an hour away from here. When my dad was searching for a Doberman pup about 7 years ago, we stopped there to look around. It is a lot like a puppy mill. They had soo many dogs, all of them in stalls with hay. I can't say that they have poor bloodlines, because we didn't purchase a pup from there. But I did not like what I saw and my dad was very unimpressed. I believe a few years back they had a pretty big fire run through. Quite a number of dogs were killed. All I can say is, it wasn't the best operation I have seen.
I think as the saying goes, you will have to "let your conscience be your guide".
I agree that your males are far out of standard (they're even out of standard for a fully grown male Pyr), but the bottom line is that none of us live in your home. None of us have to deal with your dogs on a daily basis. None of us have to risk injury to make sure one dog doesn't injure another.
In truth, I can see where a really bad fight between dogs that size could result in serious injury. Not just for one another, but for any human trying to break it up. From a strictly practical, financial stand point, a couple of good medical bills (human & canine) and any profit from litters would go right out the window.
I can only speak for myself when I say, I would neuter & spay and simply keep them as companions. Been there and done that. Especially since they all get on well without a bitch in heat.
Just my opinion. that and a couple of dollars will buy you a cup of coffee.
***Edited By: pyrmom on 6/13/2007 7:03:25 AM*** Reason: *
"Don't accept your dog's admiration as conclusive evidence that you are wonderful".