Feel like this is one of those "long time listener, first time caller" scenarios on a sports talk radio station. Been busy reading posts for a while and finally decided to ask a question or two and offer some opinions of dubious worth. I promise this post will ultimately become canine related at some point. If I digress and/or ramble along aimlessly I sincerely apologize...what I'll touch upon is something I'll probably never be able to understand. Hopefully some kind folks here can shed some light on the situation. Since this is my first post I may intersperse some random details bout' myself and my furry friends.
Please tell me why so many folks in the canine loving community do not endorse bans on the so-called dangerous breeds? I'm going to limit this to "pitbulls". I realize by ONLY including or mentioning them I'm being both discriminatory and somewhat narrow minded. Kind of the same thing on second thought isn't it....LOL?? Its been stated before, times too numerous to count or mention statements such as; "there are no bad dogs, just bad owners", etc, etc. As a long time dog owner, with most of my ownership experience in very large working breeds such as a Bullmastiff that thought he was a Lab, a snuggle bunny of a Rottweiler that liked to herd kids swimming at the lakes plus sheep and an awesome Bouvier des Flanders... I'm no dummy but still have much to learn. Granted, there are plenty of well-mannered, family loving Pits out there as well as numerous tragedys waiting to happen(have met plenty of both for better or worse). Same could undoubtedly be said of many many other breeds. Its not my intention whatsoever to upset owners of "pitbulls", though frankly I could care less. Some of this craziness just needs to be stopped. Way too many breed specific apologists and patron saints of canine lost causes floating around out there often turning a blind eye to the collective public interests. Opinions are obviously like rear ends everyone has one the old saying goes. Using paranthesis there for "pitbulls" cuz' I realize thats a generic term that leaves much to be desired.
Owning a dog isn't a right. Same could be said of driving privledges and plenty of other stuff. Simple as that. What does the US Constitution touch upon....Life, Liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness? Just a pursuit, no guarantee of getting the much sought after elusive, happy stuff. Why are so many people, ones who are frequently the least capable of being a devoted owner seemingly drawn to prefering the Pits? A macho thing? Often seems to be a clueless person trying to live their misguided life vicariously through a much maligned "breed"...a rebel thing instead? If its a "rescue thing" I'm all for it just not near my backyard. If you're a long time Pit owner and you have or had wonderful dogs great!! Way too many rookies in over there heads need your assistance before little Katie or Bryce is mauled at their school bus-stop. Is it more of an urban thing? I say more because we live out in the country. There are pits out here too but we just don't have the sad stories that often dominate the second story on the evening news. Sure, less people often equals less dogs, but lets face it, all things being equal an off the leash pit is more likely to injure John Q. Public than a Pomeranian having a bad day.
What is wrong with banning a specific breed from specifically defined area? Somethings in life just suck, it is what it is. Plenty of other things to rally around. Please don't start talking about the slippery slope...well next they'll ban Golden Retrievers in the area because little Sally got nipped at. Then they'll ban Hugh Jass and his menagerie of menacing mixed breed mongrels. It doesn't work that way. What are the most important things after food, shelter and clothing? Safety and security out of home and in the casa would rank pretty high up there IMO. Any dog regardless of breed confined to the basement and backyard 23 hours of the day isn't the safest thing for anyone involved.
Again, I'm not anti-pit whatsoever. Undoubtedly many kind, decent folks here and elsewhere own some great ones, and I sincerely feel bad about them getting bad press the last 20+ years. Same as any other breed they have their behavioral tendencies and need to be in the proper situation/environment with a competent and understanding owner to thrive. Just don't understand why this "breed" of all breeds winds up frequently in the hands of folks that shouldn't even be owning a pet rock.
I felt I needed to reply. I am not an owner of a pitbull. And don't feel I'd ever be. Because they need alot of training an attention. Mainly due to their strength and power if they ever got out of hand. Yes I see your point that some people shouldn't own one. Since they don't know how to control or raise one. But that's america, freedom of choices.
I do want to tell you, that I feel you are wrong. It is the OWNER and how it's raised and Controlled. All breeds of animals have their instinct such as hunting dogs etc. But if you socialize it and it knows the difference from right and wrong... you can raise any dog as a pet,not a threat.
I was attacked by 2 Rhodesian Ridgeback dogs. I was entering a unit to check a townhouse when these dogs from another unit were body slamming me and pinning me to the building. I ended up with 2 bites up by my shoulder. They were trying to get my neck and remember I was standing the entire time! I found out later that I was victim #7 in 11 months. I also found out that they trained them to attack game, while the owners road the horses. The problem was that everything, everybody was game...ecept the owners. I never got anything out of them.. not even my medical bill paid... But I did take away their NYS Homeowners insurance...so they sold their place and moved to FLORIDA... POOR victims in Florida!!! I wonder who is victim 8,9,10 etc.... The owners when they got the dogs off me...just told me...It's your fault.. you shouldn't have been swinging your arms when you were walking to the unit! Well I heard that victim 6, who was a jogger on the road..a distance from the property, got the same STATEMENT.. she shouldn't have been swinging her arms too!
So it is my belief, and will always be my beleaf.. it is the OWNERS who TEACH or ALLOW the dog to be the type of dog it turns out to be. ALSO..it's kind of like.. if you have a baby in your house..and you have a built in swimming pool... you wouldn't leave the baby where it could crawl into the pool and dround. So if you have a strong dog.. you wouldn't put it on a weak leash. It's all the owners responsibilities. He is the ALpha, the Controller...the BOSS.
Yes, I wish people would purchase/own a dog that suits their way of life. I would also wish they had to take some sort of test to know if they could control and raise the animal properly. BUT I would wish the same for humans when they wanted to have children. Some people shouldn't have kids as some people shouldn't have dogs.
But that's what Freedom and rights are. Welcome to America and all of our rights and choices. And lets just pray the right people make the right choices!!!!!
BSL simply doesn't work and doesn't solve the problem. [BTW, it isn't a huge problem statistically.. Time spent enforcing breed bans would help save many many lives if it were instead used to enforce speed limits.] It causes people who have great dogs of that breed to lose their pets, which most of us consider to be a part of the family, while criminals simply don't abide the law (hence, the word "criminal"), keep their animals, and continue to abuse and neglect them. Breed bans only harm law-abiding citizens, with little to no effect on criminals!
I do think leash laws and animal cruelty laws are good ones and quite necessary. ENFORCING and adhering to the leash laws alone would stop most dog attacks. Some states have dangerous dog ordinances that apply to all breeds that I find to be much more effective. I wish I could think of a specific area that has those so that I could post a link. With these laws, a dog who has bitten is dangerous, NOT my house pet, well known and played with by the neighborhood children. There are specific rules regarding these dangerous dogs, and they are PTS for repeated attacks, which would handle very well cases like the one above with the Rhodesian Ridgebacks. A person who is REALLY concerned about dog bites would be just as concerned about an attack by a RR as they would a pit bull. Dangerous dog laws that include all breeds, if enforced, it stands to reason would avoid MORE dog bites!
***Edited By: shinyblackpit on 9/15/2007 12:01:30 PM*** Reason: asdfjkl;
"Be who you are and say what you feel. Because those that matter, don't mind...And those that mind....don't matter."
I am a pet sitter & Dog walker in NJ. I have been working with dozens of different kinds of dogs for years and the bottom line is, There Are No Bad Dogs, Just Bad Owners. I walk pit bulls that are the sweetest, most loving animals you could ever imagine. That's how dogs are until a person trains them, or abuses them until they are nasty. The reason pit bulls are known for their aggression is because they are strong, and capable of inflicting major damage on an enemy. Let's face it, if you are training a dog to fight or to protect your drug stash you're not using Chihuahua’s. It's not the dogs, it's the owners that are the animals.
Darlene Sawyer *
***Edited By: pyrmom on 9/16/2007 4:59:52 PM*** Reason: sorry, no advertising on the forum
You ask 'what's wrong with banning a specific breed from a designated area' (sorry if I misquoted slightly) What's wrong with it is that if you check the famous 'LISTS' of banned dogs from certain towns in the U.S, you will find all kinds of dogs on there,most of which would make you laugh. Breed specific bans do not work. It will never stop the miscreants who take a perfectly good dog and ruin it's character, and turn it into a public menace.
Your right...there are peope out there who only own pits for fighting and "rookies" as you call them. The "rookies" dont need their freedom to have a dog taken away because they are amatures. They can choose what ever dog they want and if they feel they know enough about a Pit i say take it on. As an owner of a Pit i feel you are being very very rude...
"Its not my intention whatsoever to upset owners of "pitbulls", though frankly I could care less"
How rude were not saying "It is not my intention to upset you on this forum, though i could care less so let me give you a piece of my mind."
Well im not a lier and i aint going to do that but what you are saying is wrong. You think the breed has it in their minds to kill? No. Their owners tell them that...as you should know all dogs want is love from their owners and they will do whatever it takes to get that, including fighting. Why do you think on all the shows the OWNER is the one held responsible? Because it is their fault. You are wrongly accusing and false stateing alot of things.
Now i didnt read all the forum, it upset me too much just reading the first part, so im going back to read it all and i will state the rest of my right (opionion)!!
It is not a coincidence that those breeds end up in the hands of irresponsible people. They pick and choose them for exactly all the bad rep they got. As was said, it is a cultural and ignorance thing and the temperament of their dog often reflects their owners'. Those “problem dogs” are the side effect of a much bigger problem that is impossible to solve. They are the result of human nature and the mentality of some cultures in our society. Keep in mind that it is man who created those breeds and enhanced their aggression and fighting abilities, and man can do it again and again. You can ban them all, but that will only mean that other breeds will take their place. If you successfully ban those "dangerous" breeds, within few short years you would see “enhanced” labs or goldens behaving like pitbulls, fighting each other to death in the rings and attacking people. Basically, you will have to ban all dogs because even a Chihuahua can be taught to be a trained killer. I can see it now, a fighting ring with Chihuahuas killing each other. Well, at least they won’t do much damage to people.
If I seem to have a superiority complex, it is because you make it so easy.
I personally do not believe that every bad , or what the general public deems as BAD, behavior can be blamed entirely on the owners. each breed out there has their own set of characteristics which makes them unique and unlike any other breed. it is the failure on the owners part to recognize this and be responsible for it, that labels dogs bad. a pitbull that attacks and injures another animal is not a bad dog. it is, my understanding, a breed trait to be animal aggressive. i don't believe any amount of love, socialization, etc. will train that out of any dog if it is predisposed genetically to be that way. so the owner of a dog aggressive dog is not necessarily BAD, but should that dog cause harm to an individual that owner may be deemed irresponsible.
hence why i started a thread last week about the "dumbing down" of certain breeds and how their current traits may inevitably lead to their demise, since many of the breeds we have now are not used in the capacities they once were.
whether it is possible to breed animal aggression out of the pitbull without losing its other wonderful attributes i do not know. but i feel it is something that may be worth looking into, to ensure the future of the breed.
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.