These happenings are so heart wrenching, yet they occur more often than we know of. Most breeders will not share such experiences as some of us here do. That makes it difficult for the average person to realize the downside to breeding casually.
Thanks for sharing this one Savannah. So sorry for this dog and your prior experience as well.
To above - I think what she meant is that the liver failure did not affect the outcome of the pupps if you read carefully the pups were fully weaned by the time the mother dies and I am certain that they were also bottle fed and taken care of. We all are prepared to take over for mom in caring for the pups if she is not able to, it's part of being a responsible breeder ;)
I prefur to have my Bordeaux with fur instead of a cork and bottle ;)
Breeding is definitely not for everyone. Sooner or later, especially if you breed long enough, you will encounter some unexpected problem that could result in the death of the mother or pups. It can happen to anyone. no matter how much or little experience you got. I had few close calls myself that without prompt and costly medical attention could have easily ended up very badly.
It is just one of those facts of life you must accept when you think of breeding your dog. You must prepare yourself to the eventuality that you will lose some pups and maybe even the mom as well. If you are not willing to take that risk, breeding is not for you.
About the liver shutting down after pregnancy, I have heard of it before. An acquaintance of mine had a dog that was not well a couple of week after she gave birth. A few days after he took her to the vet, she died from liver failure. Vet said it was caused by an infection she most likely contracted during whelping. I donít really know the details, but apparently, some bacterial infections can affect the liver and cause it to shut down, that is what the vet said was the cause of death anyway.
If I seem to have a superiority complex, it is because you make it so easy.
I have lost several litters of puppies over the years. All were born early and even though we tried, nothing could be done. Two of the miscarriage pregnancies were because a puppy had died up inside the mother and caused infection that made her go in to labor early.
The third litter, there was no obvious reason why she whelped early, but she went on to successfully have 2 healthy litters. Of course with enough breeding attempts there will be issues, and even though I have lost puppies at birth-- which is sad at the time, I am glad that I haven't lost any mothers. I am sure that is partially because I don't raise 'risky' breeds, and I have overall had very few mothers that have needed c-sections and all of my vets are very conservative about doing c-sections. They try other things for natural deliveries and then c-sections are last resort.
Ali, let me just point out "risky breeds" has nothing to do with what I am speaking of. Quite frankly, Labs are one of the easiest whelping breeds there is. We all know that. I think having a conversation is ok but please let's not loose sight as to what this thread is, a reminder to all those out there that breeding is not so much fun all the time, and anyone that think's "oh this will be so much fun for my family and dog" can open the door to tragedy.
Also, with as many litters as you do a year and as many pups as you produce, honestly I am a little surprised you have not had issues ever with your adult females. Said respectfully, but honestly, that's a shock to me. These are animals, things go wrong, and when you do huge quantities it's only normal that things happen. I do not do remotely close to what you do and over my years I have also experienced tragedy.
The other thing I would like to point out.... when we say "risky breed" keep in mind every single solitary whelp is a risk of it's own. This goes for even a Lab.
No, breeding is not always fun, but many of the people who have commented on this thread including you and I still choose to breed despite the risks.
I love my dogs, and I know that you also love yours. Other people besides us also choose to breed and MOST of the time NOTHING bad happens. Can it happen? Of course. But there are MANY factors as to why some go bad and others don't. Yet can some go bad out of the blue for no apparent reason? Yes.
There are risks in everything. How many people die every day in car accidents while going to the grocery store? I still go to the grocery store despite the risks.
I feel that one of the main purposes of any living thing in nature is to re-produce. Not that everything SHOULD or that it is for the best, but if nature had its way, the goal is to replicate. Dogs are supposed to have babies. Naturally, with out dying. Women are supposed to have babies. Naturally, with out dying.
Dogs have it so much better, safer, with human intervention than they would with out-- yet look at the hundreds of thousands of shelter (oops) litters that the mother whelps HUGE litters at an incredibly young age, and does just fine. The truth of the matter is, if dogs weren't so GOOD at reproducing on their own, with out problem, there wouldn't be nearly the over population problem that there is now.
I guess I feel a little hypocritical saying 'no one (else) should breed dogs' when I breed dogs.
"I guess I feel a little hypocritical saying 'no one (else) should breed dogs' when I breed dogs."
Ali respectfully I don't feel you should feel hypocritical at all in saying this... you as a breeder put in both the time & research for the benefit of your dogs (I beilieve you have even shown yours correct?).
Do you not feel more confident in your dogs lineage then say joe shamoe's dog down the street?
I guess my problem with you quote is, why shouldn't a qualified breeder be able to say leave it to the professionals? Leave it to the people who dedicate their time (life) & really know how to better a breed!
Honestly, a responsible breeder should have a problem with the joe shamoe who has not shown/much less even looked up his dogs lineage... breeds then is trying to pass the pups & sometimes parents off to anyone they can simply because it was more of a time/financial commitment then they thought.
When had they talked to a breeder they may have learned the complications/options/emotional aspects/time/financial/& even medical expenses that all could have been avoided had they spayed/neutured and left it to the professionals.
Sorry may have rambled a bit... just think a breeder who looks to better the breed has the right to say leave it to the professionals.
I believe this thread is aimed at those who are "thinking" about breeding. I've heard a million times, "We are just going to breed her once". These people don't realize their beloved family pet could actually die. No matter the chances, I wouldn't risk my dog's life just so a few family members could have a free puppy.
Savannah posted this thread to warn people about the pitfalls of breeding, how it can turn to crap, right in front of your eyes, and not one person knows anything about the liver, or it's function, or how it could possibly be related to pregnancy? I'm not going into an extended anatomy lesson here, but suffice to say, the liver acts as a detoxification system for the whole body. Many things can cause liver disease, not the least of which are trauma, anemia, drugs and toxins and heartworm disease. Not much wonder the dog gets sick, if this filter is overburdened by - drugs, such as antibiotics, prednisone, heartworm meds.... I could go on, and then there's plain old FOOD. Where does all the toxic crap stay, when the liver can't get rid of it? Has anyone heard of cirrhosis? Another point I'd like to make, is this. If this dog was in liver failure, there would have been signs and sypmtoms, coming out the ying yang. Signs and sypmtoms of liver failure are hard to miss, they include excessive thirst, excessive urination, decreased appetite, weight loss, lethargy, depresson, light, or gray stools, convulsions, distention of abdomen, jaundice... I'm so sorry for this dog, and for all of you who think breeding is a cake walk, it is'nt.