Also, I'm not new to this breed, I know they have a stubborn streak since I just recently lost my 12yr old Lhasa to adeno-carcinoma. But I have to say I never had trouble housebreaking our first Lhasa.
"Our problem is that our pup was 9mos old when we brought him into our family and he was "crate trained" in that he was in a sort of stall and when the door was opened for the pups to "go out" it was onto pavement. As a result, when he does go outside, it's on pavement. He wouldn't even walk on grass when we first got him."
NOT what I would call a good breeder-not even a mediocre breeder. Pups should be exposed to everything-and that includes GRASS!!! Not sure why you would buy from a "breeder" who, it sounds like, keeps her pups confined to a kennel except for potty breaks.
Hmmm... When you got him he wouldn't even walk on grass and always peed on pavement..... Ya, sounds like the breeder did a great job...... ? I don't care if she has been breeding for 100 years, she did not give that puppy every opportunity for success and she did not expose him to what she should have.
Di, Vigilance really is the key. You stated that you would stay outside and bring the pup in and he/she (??- sorry forgot!) would pee in 45 minutes. If you find this to be a habit, take him out every 1/2 hour or so. Every time he drinks, every time he eats, when he wakes up from a nap, etc. I have on occassion "bopped" my dogs for doing something they are not supposed to do, but never as a young pup and they pretty much knew they weren't supposed to do whatever it is they did anyway. I don't recommend it for a new puppy or a new owner because all it teaches them is to fear you - Not listen to you. That last thing you want is a dog who "cringes" when you raise a hand - this can make a dog unpredictable, IMO.
Since you've had dogs before you know this will take a while to "get right." Puppies will have accidents because they CAN'T control themselves yet. Most of the time, the only reason they "hold" it at night is because they are sleeping!lol! When and if you catch him in the act, like somebody else said, you say loudly, sharply, whatever, NO! and then take him outside (in between no and outside, I always take mine to the back door, sit him down, take his paw and make it scratch the back door, because this is what we use as a signal and then take him out) Then you wait, even if its an hour, till he pees and praise him like it's the best darn thing he ever did! lol! Don't pay attention to him until he goes.
When I've found puddles in the house, I always made the pup come to it and sniff it. I know some people on here would disagree with me that they won't know what they did, but I believe they know what the smell of their own pee is. My precurser to bringing the pup to the puddle is actually different for every dog I have/had. With my youngest pup it was GASP! What is this??? And he would already know he did something wrong! Anyway, after sniffing, to the back door, scratch, and outside we go.
For me, this has always worked. My dogs are crate trained, but I never used the crate to potty train during the day, but I was also always home. The only time mine go in the crate is when I leave and at night.
Don't forget too, that at 9 mos your pup may just be scared and "adapting" to new surroundings. Plus, this may now be a bad habit, which takes WAY longer to break that to train.
Patience, dilligence, watchfullness, time will probably all it will take.
Ok. Now that I re-read my post, I'm not quite sure I'm not mixing up different people, so if I am please apply my advice where needed
Masti, I agree with you that the dog that happened to pee, usually an older puppy, who knows better, but if it's raining, or just because, knows he was wrong. Usually a stern voice will send the offending dog out the dog door very quickly at my house. I too potty train mine by noting their habits, and watching them. As the Rottie poster said, as soon as they wake up, as soon as they eat, after a drink, and then watch for sniffing around and spinning, they are going to potty. I have a doggy door; so I can quickly grab a pup and give him a little push out the door and just say "Go pee" in a joyful voice. Of course I've had the odd accident, but it was my accident.
:Di, your dog was never trained at all;so you have to start at the beginning. Kennels that keep their dogs in small buildings attached to a concrete run, are not potty trained. I would advise the crate training too, even though I don't always use it myself. I think the age factor is the main reason. Do you live in the city, or in a rural area?
Di, I have a three year old Lhasa who was HELL to potty train. It was partly my fault in being impatient and switching methods, and partly that stubborn side of the Lhasa. What finally worked was keeping him on a leash attached to me 24/7 for a couple weeks. At the time I worked from home, or could take him to the office when I went in, so I was there with him most of the time. If I had to run to the store or somewhere I couldn't take him, he was in his crate. He finally got it. I now have the opposite problem as you...he won't pee on hard surfaces. Unfortunately, I have no grass, only concrete, gravel, bark and flowers...I have to walk him up the street to get him to go unless he REALLY needs to.
Y'all may hate me, but I'm really not a fan of crate training. There may be more "efficient" ways to potty train than my method, but my feeling is that I have animals, and they are not stuffed, they therefore do not belong in a box. My crates are used for timeouts, to get them out of the way when needed, for Merphy when he has a bone and Oliver when he eats (Merphy wants his food). My house doesn't stink, its clean. I have friends come over for "sniff tests".
Even if you are on the right track, you will still get run over if you just sit there. (Will Rogers)
"Y'all may hate me, but I'm really not a fan of crate training. There may be more "efficient" ways to potty train than my method, but my feeling is that I have animals, and they are not stuffed, they therefore do not belong in a box. My crates are used for timeouts, to get them out of the way when needed, for Merphy when he has a bone and Oliver when he eats (Merphy wants his food). My house doesn't stink, its clean. I have friends come over for "sniff tests"."
I hate to be the one to tell you, but if you use crates and they are NOT crying the entire time they are in there, banging around trying to get out, peeing and pooping. - Then they ARE crate trained. You may not use it as a potty training "tool", but they are crate trained.
Never..never...ever hit the puppy with your hand..he will become afraid of you. Make a noise.. a sherp quick noise that gets his attention and shows your disapproval...remember..they really are trying to please you, they just don't know how yet....but you know better to never never hit him
"I hate to be the one to tell you, but if you use crates and they are NOT crying the entire time they are in there, banging around trying to get out, peeing and pooping. - Then they ARE crate trained. You may not use it as a potty training "tool", but they are crate trained."
Oh yes, sorry. I forgot how specific and careful I have to be on this site. Let me rephrase for the overly anal and those unable to read a statement for what it means...I am not a fan of using a crate for potty training or management of my dogs while I am away. My dogs are not stored in a box when I am work, sleeping or out with friends. Nor do I store my dogs in a crate while I am home and available to take them outside when they ring their bell. I use crates to keep them safe and/or comfortable. When Merphy is being bad, he willingly goes in his crate and is happy to do so. I don't even really need to close the door, its like he knows he needs a time out. Oliver sleeps in one most of the time, because I fear I will roll over on him or knock him off the bed. The crate is big enough to fit him and Merphy, so he can move around. Oliver eats in his crate also, he and Merphy are on different foods, and Merphy always thinks everyone else's food is better than his. So, I feed them separately. When I give Merphy a bone, if its rainy or cold, he eats it in his crate, or if its a nice day, I put him on the porch with his tie and he eats there while I work in the yard. So, I use crates as a tool to for my dogs when I am there, not a storage system.
Even if you are on the right track, you will still get run over if you just sit there. (Will Rogers)
HeatherFeather....You are so funny! You mean, some of the people on here are anal? No!?!? Say it ain't so..... hehe = ) So....if you are one syllable off in your post, you will be attacked? Yes, yes, you will. But, there ARE a lot of irresponsible pet owners who come here and tell stories about their cruelty and stupidity. That said, obviously you are NOT one of those people. Soooo, it is wrong to attack you...but in a public, fairly anonymous forum, people will show their worst. ( oh, and when you just "tie your dog out", are you sure you are watching him and using the right kind of leash?!? LOL.... ) Basically, we can't crate our dogs for very long ( i agree that it is inhumane ), we can't let them run about the house without constantly watching them, and we shouldn't leave them alone outside. What we ARE supposed to do with them, I dunno. Sit and look at them all day I guess. Kidding of course! Maybe we shouldn't have domesticated them in the first place. ; )
I know...I know... I wasn't referring to any ONE person. Just a general "characteristic" of the site, it seems. Maybe people, perhaps, are just sick of those people who are cruel and ask stupid questions... or ask for medical advice when most of us are not vets. Or, maybe they are just in bad moods.
Excellent! LOL...in every forum there are always some "anal" people. I don't believe in crate training either. For now though, he needs the crate for security and safety if we're not at home. He's going through separation anxiety now too Also, just to clarify something...the kennel is a "spa" (I mean, literally a pet spa and boarding facility). She also has a grooming school and these dogs (and pedigree cats) are treated like royalty. She had 3 or 4 liters available at the time. And I didn't mean that the little guy never walked on grass (though I realize that's what I said). I should have been more specific and said that he wasn't walked (on a leash, on grass). The pups were given open space and not leashed. They were not confined to a small space...in fact most of the time they were walking around in the office or playing with the staff. This pup is the most gentle, even tempered and loving Lhasa that I have ever seen (as were all of her dogs). She is very careful about keeping her lines pure. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression of the breeder. That being said...the puppies are not house trained. They just are not! This is not usually a problem since they're usually adopted (sold) by 4-5 mos..but I guess with the poor economy they just were not moving the way they normally do. Our pup was 7mos old and the other litters were 6-7mos old. Pups lose a lot of training time in those few months. So, we did have to start from "scratch". Now, since I posted about my little guy...well, he must have been reading over my shoulder because he's been going outside since the day I posted, He's so proud of himself too. You can tell by his gate...he's strutting his stuff and it's like the light finally went on. He's finally walking on the leash the right way too, LOL. I have some walking difficulties and so it's really important that he can walk slower with me than with his "dad", and all of a sudden, he gets it!! This is really a wonderful site...the people here are very sweet and caring. Thanks everyone. Next task...stopping the "shoe chewing" (other than keeping them out of his reach)
Apparently I can't count either! Duh....my pup was born in Sept. and we picked him up in April. In my first post I said he was 9mos when we got him and that he's 10mos now...he's 91/2 mos now. Thanks, :Di